Why the NT is Historically and Theologically not acceptable for Torath Mosheh Jews

[rosends]

I was making an example of how many times people mix what the scriptures say with their own traditions.

So what? I'll make an example of how people eat soup with a fork.
Next?

 

[Skywalker]

So what? I'll make an example of how people eat soup with a fork.
Next?

The Old Testament never says that the Messiah was a political figure who isn't God. That is just a tradition that people came up with.

 

[Harel13]

The Jesus of the New Testament is not a mythic character

I'm not interested in arguing this. I mentioned it to make a point.

What did they have to gain by saying that they saw the risen Christ?

Some eternal reward they were deluded into believing they would receive? I'm not sure poor, unlearned men from the Galilee had much to live for, otherwise. Taxes from the Romans, taxes from the Herodian kings, bullying elitist Sadducees controlling the Temple - tough life. When you haven't got a strong, Torah-based anchor to offer you something real in spirituality, you might as well die trying for the easy reward.

 

[Skywalker]

I'm not interested in arguing this. I mentioned it to make a point.

Some eternal reward they were deluded into believing they would receive? I'm not sure poor, unlearned men from the Galilee had much to live for, otherwise. Taxes from the Romans, taxes from the Herodian kings, bullying elitist Sadducees controlling the Temple - tough life. When you haven't got a strong, Torah-based anchor to offer you something real in spirituality, you might as well die trying for the easy reward.

Following God means putting God's will above our own desires. People lie to get, money, sex, or power. The Apostles got none of those things. Harvard Law Professor Coverts To Christianity After Trying To Disprove Resurrection Of Jesus | Reasons for Jesus

Clement of Rome (writing around 95 AD) attests to the persecution and martyrdom of both Peter and Paul. Therefore, according to the criterion of independent attestation, that the disciples and Paul underwent a radical change of heart and mind is widely considered historical. As Greenleaf himself observed:

“Their master had recently perished as a malefactor, by the sentence of a public tribunal. His religion sought to overthrow the religions of the whole world. The laws of every country were against the teachings of His disciples. The interests and passions of all the rulers and great men in the world were against them. The fashion of the world was against them… they could expect nothing but contempt, opposition, revilings, bitter persecutions, stripes, imprisonments, torments, and cruel deaths.

Yet this faith they zealously did propagate; and all these miseries they endured undismayed, nay, rejoicing. As one after another was put to a miserable death, the survivors only prosecuted their work with increased vigor and resolution… They had every possible motive to review carefully the grounds of their faith, and the evidences of the great facts and truths which they asserted; and these motives were pressed upon their attention with the most melancholy and terrific frequency.

It was therefore impossible that they could have persisted in affirming the truths they have narrated, had not Jesus actually risen from the dead, and had they not known this fact as certainly as they knew any other fact …

IF THEN THEIR TESTIMONY WAS NOT TRUE, THERE WAS NO POSSIBLE MOTIVE FOR ITS FABRICATION.”

 

[Harel13]

Following God means putting God's will above our own desires. People lie to get, money, sex, or power. The Apostles got none of those things. Harvard Law Professor Coverts To Christianity After Trying To Disprove Resurrection Of Jesus | Reasons for Jesus

Who cares?
Should I bring you stories of hardcore Christians, even Messianics who converted to Noachidism or Judaism? I'm sure you will equally not care.

 

[Skywalker]

Who cares?
Should I bring you stories of hardcore Christians, even Messianics who converted to Noachidism or Judaism? I'm sure you will equally not care.

Christians being persecuted for their faith and for not denying Jesus shows that Christianity is different from other beliefs. People don't like hearing that they are sinners and Jesus is our Creator and Savior . What Makes a Christian Martyr Different from Other Faiths’ Martyr

The killing of Christians simply because of their belief and their refusal to deny Christ and convert to a different religion has been recorded countless times since the martyrdom of Stephen in Acts 7 (ca. AD 32–35) up to the present time. In fact, it has been said that more Christians are suffering martyrdom today than ever before—up to 100 thousand per year.2 Often there is additional persecution of Christian populations that leads to loss of property, forced displacement from their homeland, or even time in forced labor camps.3 According to David Barrett, the “persecution of Christians is more common in our generation than ever in history. The oft-quoted statistic is that more people died for their Christian faith in the last century than in all the other centuries of recorded history combined.”4

The Christian organization Voice of the Martyrs lists 52 countries that are currently persecuting Christians.5 This persecution includes verbal assault, property confiscation, physical assault, unlawful imprisonment, threats, torture, psychological intimidation, kidnappings, and murder. In Sudan alone it is estimated that hundreds of thousands of Christians have been martyred and up to 2 million forced to flee their homes, simply for refusing to renounce their Christian faith.6

The Romans, the Huns, the Goths, the Vikings, Muslims, Hindus, and other religious groups have perpetrated martyrdom of Christians since the time of the Apostles, mainly because of their Christian faith. The vast majority of these Christian martyrs were not revolutionaries or dissidents, but were ordinary citizens trying to live peaceably among their neighbors. According to principles laid down in Scripture, they paid their taxes, honored the king and governors, loved their neighbors, and gave no cause for offense (Romans 13:1–8; 1 Peter 2:13–17).

How then can we account for this vitriol directed at Christianity in excess of other inter-faith conflicts? The answer lies in the exclusivity of the Christian faith and the means of salvation. True Christianity does not teach a multiplicity of ways to “come to God.” It does not teach that humans are basically good and just need a divine nudge to get on the right track. It does not teach that man can earn merit with God. True Christianity teaches what Jesus Christ taught, that He alone is “the Way, the Truth and the Life: no man comes to the Father, but by Me” (John 14:6). Christianity is intricately tied to the authority of the Bible, which details mankind’s separation from God due to sin, the remedy that God provided through the death and Resurrection of Christ, how God wants to be worshipped, and how we are to conduct ourselves as ambassadors for Christ. We read in Ephesians 2:1 that we are all dead in sins until Christ makes us alive, and in verses 8–9 Paul tells us that we are saved (from God’s judgment) by the grace of God through faith in Jesus Christ, not by our own good works or merit.

 

[rosends]

The Old Testament never says that the Messiah was a political figure who isn't God. That is just a tradition that people came up with.

Yes it does.
No it isn't.
Next?

 

[Skywalker]

Yes it does.
No it isn't.
Next?

The Messiah is a Savior and only God saves. https://resources.razorplanet.com/510414-2948/693155_2017_06_11NotaMessiahTHEMessiah.pdf

The sinner needs the Messiah. The one person who fulfills that is the Lord Jesus Christ. Many in the Old Testament were anointed ones. Many messiahs chosen, given divine authority, delegated, given power by the presence of the Holy Spirit; but none could be the true saving mediator. None is called Savior, none is called Redeemer, none is called Lord until Jesus comes.

 

[rosends]

The Messiah is a Savior and only God saves. https://resources.razorplanet.com/510414-2948/693155_2017_06_11NotaMessiahTHEMessiah.pdf

You misunderstand the words.
Next?

 

[Rival]

Christians being persecuted for their faith and for not denying Jesus shows that Christianity is different from other beliefs.

Are you serious? Do you know how non-Christians, especially Jews and local Pagans, were treated in Mediaeval Europe? Have you seen how Uighur Muslims are being treated by China right now?

 

[Skywalker]

Are you serious? Do you know how non-Christians, especially Jews and local Pagans, were treated in Mediaeval Europe? Have you seen how Uighur Muslims are being treated by China right now?

I believe that anti semetism is spiritual in nature. The Metal Minister: THE SYNAGOGUE SHOOTING REVEALS THE SUPERNATURAL ORIGINS OF ANTISEMITISM

I have often said, "if you want proof God exists, look to the Jew." No other nation of people have ever been called God's chosen, on no other nation of people do the hinges of prophecy turn and no other nation of people have been given God's promise of future redemption and restoration. Without the Jewish people, God's promises to all men fail and God is no longer God.

The almost universal hatred for the Jewish people, throughout time, is strong evidence that God exists. The universal hatred of the Jews is irrational and baseless as the Jewish people have never posed a threat to any nation in which they have lived.

In America, Jews do not proselytize, protest, or engage in organized crime yet they are, by some, blamed for all that is wrong in the world. Senseless! This kind of senseless universal hatred only makes sense in a world where God exists and God has an adversary.

 

[Skywalker]

You misunderstand the words.
Next?

In the Bible, there's a difference between a messiah and the Messiah. Not a Messiah—THE Messiah

In fact, in Jeremiah 22:14 it is translated in English “painting,” and it refers to the painting of a house: spreading liquid paint over a house. That is the verb form. It came then to mean “to anoint,” to spread oil on someone or something, to smear olive oil, generally speaking, on an object or a person. And anytime in Jewish religious history olive oil was sort of ceremonially spread on an object or a person. It was to symbolize that they were set apart for some sacred responsibility. It was used, introduced really, by God in the building of the tabernacle back in the book of Exodus, where the altar was to be anointed with oil, Exodus 29, where the entire tabernacle was to be anointed with oil in Exodus chapter 40. And it meant, literally, “to set apart for spiritual usage, to consecrate, to identify as sacred, to take it out of the secular realm and set it apart for God.” So that happened to certain objects in the Old Testament.

But more importantly, it happened to certain people. There are people in the Old Testament who are part of the theocratic kingdom – the theocratic kingdom means the kingdom God rules, the people of Israel. There are people in that kingdom who are set apart for specific spiritual duty. They are representatives of God. They have a responsibility to God to act in His place, if you will, and they were to be identified by this oil-smearing, this anointing. They are therefore messiahs, anointed ones – messiahs, with a small M and a plural S. There were many of them.

Just to give you the three people in the theocratic kingdom that were messiahs, one would be the kings, two would be the priests, and three would be the prophets. We find the kings being anointed with oil as a symbol of them being set aside to God. That would be true of Saul; that would be true of David; that would be true of Solomon; and that continued to be true.

We see the priests anointed with oil, symbolizing that they’re set apart to God. That started in Exodus 28 with the great high priest, the first high priest Aaron, and it passed on through the priesthood. And then we see in 1 Kings when we meet the prophet Elijah that prophets were anointed with oil. This ritual was symbolic of their consecration to unique service to God.

Now messiah then means “anointed one.” In the Old Testament it’s used thirty-nine times, the term. Twenty-eight of those thirty-nine it refers to kings. So kings were the most frequently anointed people. But many others were anointed, as I mentioned, that aren’t necessarily described in Scripture. That would be the priests and the prophets.

 

[Rival]

I believe that anti semetism is spiritual in nature. The Metal Minister: THE SYNAGOGUE SHOOTING REVEALS THE SUPERNATURAL ORIGINS OF ANTISEMITISM

It means Christianity is no different just because of persecution.

 

[rosends]

In the Bible, there's a difference between a messiah and the Messiah. Not a Messiah—THE Messiah

no there isn't.
Next?

 

[Skywalker]

It means Christianity is no different just because of persecution.

Christianity is hated because it shows that we are sinners in need of a Savior. What Makes a Christian Martyr Different from Other Faiths’ Martyr

As we look to God’s revealed Word as our absolute authority and live lives that reflect its truths, we as Christians should be both salt and light. That light will stand out in a dark world (Matthew 5:14–16) and will expose the darkness of sin (Ephesians 5:11). It will also mark Christians as different from the rest of the world and make them targets for hatred, just as Christ was hated (John 15:18). As Christians striving to live godly lives, we are to expect persecution (2 Timothy 3:12), whether it be in the form of mockery, being called foolish and scientifically illiterate, having our rights impinged on or denied, or—as we see in many countries around the world—physical persecution and even martyrdom. But we can be exhorted with the words of Christ on this matter: "And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end shall be saved” (Mark 13:13) and the promise that Jesus will never leave us nor forsake us (Hebrews 13:5).

 

[Skywalker]

no there isn't.
Next?

King Solomon was never called the Messiah. Not a Messiah—THE Messiah

Now messiah then means “anointed one.” In the Old Testament it’s used thirty-nine times, the term. Twenty-eight of those thirty-nine it refers to kings. So kings were the most frequently anointed people. But many others were anointed, as I mentioned, that aren’t necessarily described in Scripture. That would be the priests and the prophets.

The verb when it appears is passive, it’s passive. This kind of official setting apart, this kind of symbolic anointing, was done by someone to this individual who had been set apart for high duty. We would say, then, that a messiah is someone who has been anointed in an official way as a sacred declaration of consecration to God for a special duty: a king to rule; a priest to intercede and mediate; and a prophet to preach, proclaim truth.

And, as I said, there were many such messiahs among the kings and priests and prophets of the Old Testament. Make a note: none of them is ever called “Savior,” and none of them is ever called “Lord,” and none of them is ever called “the Messiah.” But when you come to the New Testament and you meet the Lord Jesus Christ, the language is, “We have found the Messiah, that you might believe that Jesus is theMessiah, the Son of God.” He is presented in the New Testament as the consummate, comprehensive Anointed One, who sums up all that a king could be, all that a priest could be, and all that a prophet could be. And at the same time, He is the one and only Lord and Savior of the world.

 

[rosends]

King Solomon was never called the Messiah. Not a Messiah—THE Messiah

Yes he was.
Next?

 

[Skywalker]

Yes he was.
Next?

There were many people in the Old Testament who were annointed by God but they were not the Messiah. Not a Messiah—THE Messiah

In fact, in Jeremiah 22:14 it is translated in English “painting,” and it refers to the painting of a house: spreading liquid paint over a house. That is the verb form. It came then to mean “to anoint,” to spread oil on someone or something, to smear olive oil, generally speaking, on an object or a person. And anytime in Jewish religious history olive oil was sort of ceremonially spread on an object or a person. It was to symbolize that they were set apart for some sacred responsibility. It was used, introduced really, by God in the building of the tabernacle back in the book of Exodus, where the altar was to be anointed with oil, Exodus 29, where the entire tabernacle was to be anointed with oil in Exodus chapter 40. And it meant, literally, “to set apart for spiritual usage, to consecrate, to identify as sacred, to take it out of the secular realm and set it apart for God.” So that happened to certain objects in the Old Testament.

But more importantly, it happened to certain people. There are people in the Old Testament who are part of the theocratic kingdom – the theocratic kingdom means the kingdom God rules, the people of Israel. There are people in that kingdom who are set apart for specific spiritual duty. They are representatives of God. They have a responsibility to God to act in His place, if you will, and they were to be identified by this oil-smearing, this anointing. They are therefore messiahs, anointed ones – messiahs, with a small M and a plural S. There were many of them.

 

[rosends]

There were many people in the Old Testament who were annointed by God but they were not the Messiah. Not a Messiah—THE Messiah

Yes they were.
Next?

 

[Skywalker]

Yes they were.
Next?

Isaiah 53:6 shows that the Messiah is God because only God can pay the price of sin which is eternal separation from Him.

All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.