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Featured Why the Hell . . . .

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Skwim, Apr 11, 2016.

  1. Ingledsva

    Ingledsva HEATHEN ALASKAN

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    I am well aware that "the Bosom of Abraham" is a colloquialism. I have actually written about it a couple of times this week. The last being in Scriptural Debates - miracle Skeleton - # 15.

    Nothing you have said up there changes anything I said.

    ALL of them including Tartarus come from Sheol.

    The idea is that everyone sleeping in Sheol, - awaits the Messiah - and Final Judgment, - where the evil will cease to exist, as in the smelting fire burning off the dross, leaving only pure Gold.

    The word in 1 Peter 3 18-20 is pneuma = souls/spirits - meaning human souls as is made plain by verse 20..

    1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

    1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits/SOULS in prison;

    1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

    So we specifically have Unjust Souls Which are the ones that didn't survive Noah's flood, and before that.

    Jesus rising bodily from the grave, and dead people wandering around, were added later by people that didn't understand Sheol.

    Jesus was a Jew, - claiming to be the Messiah.

    The idea is that He dies, goes to Sheol to preach to the Souls that died before he came to deliver his message. Then he is the first to rise from Sheol. According to the story, HE makes the future "rising" of the others possible.

    Also, - Tanakh does not have any angels falling, with Satan, or otherwise. That is later misunderstanding of Hebrew texts too.

    In Isaiah 14:4 they mistake a fall from grace by a King of Babylon, - for a fall of Satan.

    *
     
    #341 Ingledsva, Apr 27, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2016
  2. djhwoodwerks

    djhwoodwerks Well-Known Member

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    Rev 20:10 (ESVST) 10 and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

    Tormented - (STRONG) g0928. βασανίζω basanizō; from 931; to torture:— pain, toil, torment, toss, vex. AV (12)- torment 8, pain 1, toss 1, vex 1, toil 1;


    Rev 20:14-15 (ESVST) 14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

    The Bible says they will be "tormented" (torture, pain, torment, vex) DAY and NIGHT FOREVER and EVER" in the lake of fire. And if anyone's name wasn't found in the book of life, they are thrown in the same lake of fire. How does that sound like annihilation?
     
  3. Ingledsva

    Ingledsva HEATHEN ALASKAN

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    Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

    They have been saying the end is nigh since Jesus' death.

    *
     
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  4. RayJeena

    RayJeena

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    To sum it up, "Turn or burn / be annihilated". No healing
    for those who need it (the wicked).

    -
     
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  5. JoStories

    JoStories Well-Known Member

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    Furthermore, what is 'ungodliness" and "unrighteousness" and which God do we use to apply these terms? Sultan says its his God but what if it is the God of the Hindus or the Buddhists or the Muslims or the Jews? What is ungodliness and unrighteousness to that God? Who is to say its the God portrayed in the Bible?
     
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  6. JoStories

    JoStories Well-Known Member

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    Let me be very clear...Everyone that you embolden here does NOT include me but let me assure you that I do very strongly believe in God. Just not your idea or version of God. I suppress nothing when it comes to God. Just your version which, IMO, is punitive and ugly with its emphasis on punishment and toeing the line with all the rules. You tap dance from one foot to another and never get beyond shouting how only your God is correct.
     
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  7. JoStories

    JoStories Well-Known Member

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    I don't think so. If God is as unapproachable as you make God out to be, what is the point of having this God in the first place? When all goes well, its God that intervened. When it does not, its all Satan's fault. Do you now see how that is what makes the version of God you seem to think is the God of everyone something that many people would have no desire to ever know at all?
     
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  8. JoStories

    JoStories Well-Known Member

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    Ah but if God is omnipotent, which you say God is, then God knows who will deny God and it is God who ends up being culpable for those God sends to hell. Not a very appealing God, IMO. I prefer the God I view God as, one from a Buddhist POV which has me learning from my mistakes and striving to become enlightened by that God. I find your version very unappealing.
     
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  9. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    I've yet to see a Christian seriously address the implications of god's omnipotence and omniscience. All the response I've seen have been quick digressions into other issues.


    .
     
  10. JoStories

    JoStories Well-Known Member

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    I think that is a lovely sentiment and would further say, that that is how I found my way to God, albeit through the Buddhist POV. I believe that as long as one has found peace, and if that peace contains God, it should not matter to anyone else. The relationship of God, or even a lack of a relationship, is intensely personal and one cannot understand another's relationship.
     
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  11. JoStories

    JoStories Well-Known Member

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    Very nicely spoken. Bravo!
     
  12. JoStories

    JoStories Well-Known Member

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    I would strongly disagree with you about it being hearsay. I would say that my experiences with God are what led me to Buddhism. If you choose to disbelieve in God, however you would like to define that, mores the power to you. My father was an atheist and one of the most caring and loving persons I have ever had the privilege to know. There is nothing wrong with being an atheist. Nor is there any thing wrong with being a believer in God, however the believer defines it.
     
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  13. JoStories

    JoStories Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps a new thread that discusses that concept? Just a thought Skwim. I know I would enjoy it as I enjoy most of your posts.
     
  14. JoStories

    JoStories Well-Known Member

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    I could not possibly disagree more. Who are you to state that this is the truth? How in the world do you explain the infirmities of cancer to someone who wants to believe that Christ would physically heal them? If you speak only here of your 'heaven', prove that this is so. Since we know you cannot, your statement is purely supposition and worse, speculation. Such a statement as this insults any and all people who are members here and who may have mental issues or physical ones, or even pretending that they are suffering from this now will lead them to this 'heaven' is an outright lie. It is false hope and is wrong no matter how you view it.
     
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  15. JoStories

    JoStories Well-Known Member

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    :facepalm::shrug::(This has to be one of the most sad and disillusioned posts I have ever read here. To imagine such a horrific scenario means, at least to me, that you do not understand a single thing that Christ taught. Not even one.
     
  16. JoStories

    JoStories Well-Known Member

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    What I highlighted and underlined is, my where I am sitting, part of your overall problem. You are the one doing the inductive reasoning, and no one else. It is YOU who are making these assumptions and not God nor Jesus. YOU and you alone. What I might see with these passages might be totally different and who is to say who is wrong or right? Do I assume you are? Based on your views, I certainly hope not.
     
  17. JoStories

    JoStories Well-Known Member

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    Can you? Of course not because it is your views of what these scriptures state and only yours. I might see and certainly do see, what is written in a completely different way. Again, who is to say who is wrong or right? What can be 'proven' from scripture at all? It is all supposition. One reads the words and this one sees it that way and another this way. Can you seriously state that your view is correct?
     
  18. JoStories

    JoStories Well-Known Member

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    Really? You got this from God God's self? Because as far as I can see, its your belief and nothing more. I wonder what you say to other peoples of other faiths? Do you tell all Hindus they are going to hell? What about Jews or Muslims or Buddhists or any other of the myriad faiths out there?
     
  19. JoStories

    JoStories Well-Known Member

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    The operative word here being believe.
     
  20. JoStories

    JoStories Well-Known Member

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    IMO, it is the only thing that makes sense. God wants us to be enlightened. The only way one can do that is to experience the lessons in this life and other lives that God wants us to learn. There are simply far too many for one lifetime. That is how I view it and how God has led me to understand it.
     
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