Why the Christians have the false assumption that they are going to Heaven

[sojourner]

Yes, in fact, all of the Christian and Hallmark holidays derive from ancient Pagan celebrations.

A Christian can hardly be original :yes:

It's the beauty of Xy. It's not culturally-inbedded. It can apply to any culture and be relevant.

 

[Sum1sGruj]

As a matter of fact many Christian traditions derive from mythology, and I believe the the date the birth of Jesus is celebrated derives from a pagan holiday. It was on the history chanel, so it must be true

Christmas is not Jesus' birthday, it's only celebrated on that day. The origins on that day do not have anything to do with Abrahamic religion at all. It has to do with e Stag God (known today as Santa Claus) and was well before Moses brought the Jews from Egypt. You might as well be saying that the golden calf they worshiped while he went and got the Commandments is part of them.
So you must have selective hearing when watching the History Channel.

 

[Orias]

It's the beauty of Xy. It's not culturally-inbedded. It can apply to any culture and be relevant.

I disagree, it is very culturally inbedded.

Christian holidays can hardly be relevant to One who does not celebrate them

 

[sojourner]

I disagree, it is very culturally inbedded.

Christian holidays can hardly be relevant to One who does not celebrate them

'K...
In what culture is Xy imbedded?

 

[kutulu]

eh...

who knows whats going on in those weird christian heads...

 

[Sum1sGruj]

I accept Jesus. I believe he lived and died. Historical texts suggest a man named Jesus died on a cross along with many others who were considered heretics.

You believe that he existed. Hardly means anything.

God, since when did semantics replace reason...

 

[Hawkins]

It is true that most Christians assume that because they believe in Jesus and have asked for forgiveness they are automatically saved. However the Bible their own spiritual guide has much more to say about the art of getting through the pearly gates.

Jesus said," For I tell you that unless your rightousness surpasses thatof the pharisees and the the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5:20

"But small is the gate and and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."Matthew 7:14

"Not everyone that says to me Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my father."Matthew 7:21

Most Christains overlook the doctrine that outlines Christianity because it is far to difficult to be better than the Pharisees or do the will of the father, and that leaves very few capable of being granted eternal life.

You don't seem to get Jesus Christ's point. Jesus sets alot of guidelines for Christians to go a path of continuous improvement. Yet the most important point is, Law has no effect on Christians. Only when Jesus says that "You are saved", then you are saved. On the other hand, it is also possible that Jesus accepts you when you accept Him at the last moment of you life but don't have much time left to 'improve' yourself.

As a result,

It is true that most Christians assume that because they believe in Jesus and have asked for forgiveness they are automatically saved.

Even those Christians assume so, you can never tell whether Jesus Christ has accepted them or not. Even they assume so Jesus can still choose to accept them to be saved. You can't tell.

 

[Orias]

'K...
In what culture is Xy imbedded?

The United States.

If you haven't noticed, there hasn't ever been an elected president that didn't wear the "good guy" badge.

Wedding ceremonies, media, etc. etc.

Not to mention the enormous wealth of the Churches (which if were taxed could pay off the national debt in 3 years), and maybe just perhaps the 1000+ different branches of "xy" that all manipulate and conserve American ethics and morals, which consist of mainstream "rights" and "wrongs", "do-s" and "dont-s".

It's not imbedded in a religious sense, rather in an intellectual sense.

 

[Orias]

God, since when did semantics replace reason...

When my God became different than yours.

 

[waitasec]

When my God became different than yours.

frubals...

 

[Orias]

frubals...

Happyness

 

[sojourner]

The United States.

If you haven't noticed, there hasn't ever been an elected president that didn't wear the "good guy" badge.

Wedding ceremonies, media, etc. etc.

Not to mention the enormous wealth of the Churches (which if were taxed could pay off the national debt in 3 years), and maybe just perhaps the 1000+ different branches of "xy" that all manipulate and conserve American ethics and morals, which consist of mainstream "rights" and "wrongs", "do-s" and "dont-s".

It's not imbedded in a religious sense, rather in an intellectual sense.

However, that's not true for the majority of Xy -- just American Xy, which is my point: When one becomes Xian, one doesn't learn Greek, or Hebrew, or even Latin anymore. One uses whatever is the vernacular for one's culture. Xy is getting HUGE in Africa, and Xy there has taken on a decidedly African flavor. Xy tends to take on the characteristics of its culture -- wherever it is -- not the other way 'round. Xy has no culture of its own that can be identified either nationally or ethnically.

 

[newhope101]

You don't seem to get Jesus Christ's point. Jesus sets alot of guidelines for Christians to go a path of continuous improvement. Yet the most important point is, Law has no effect on Christians. Only when Jesus says that "You are saved", then you are saved. On the other hand, it is also possible that Jesus accepts you when you accept Him at the last moment of you life but don't have much time left to 'improve' yourself.

As a result,



Even those Christians assume so, you can never tell whether Jesus Christ has accepted them or not. Even they assume so Jesus can still choose to accept them to be saved. You can't tell.

I agree. I think this is the way it is meant to be..that we do not know for sure. That way one cannot say "I am good enough".

Jesus told the sinner on the cross besides him. "Today you will be with me in Paradise". The JW's take this as meaning asleep untill the resurection. However I disagree. Sheol is not paradise and is not described as such anywhere in the bible.

The "day" is used in may ways. The day of judgement is at death..our last day. Although the bible states those that hope in me will be saved, it is not just about thinking it. Some effort is involved. The sinner that was saved on the cross did not have time for works. This man was truly repentant sufficiently that he was saved without works. Jesus knew the state of his heart. God is merciful as well vengefull. Humans are created in the image of God.

I say when you create something you get to make the rules and no one else has to like or agree with them as that is irrelevant. Neither does God need to explain why He has done anything. We get a choice and if eternal death is what one seeks then one will likely get it in the end.

 

[McBell]

I say when you create something you get to make the rules and no one else has to like or agree with them as that is irrelevant. Neither does God need to explain why He has done anything. We get a choice and if eternal death is what one seeks then one will likely get it in the end.

I for one want nothing to do with any deity that is as hypocritical as the deity presented by the majority of Christians.

Of course, I do not agree with nor fall fall for the "might makes right" defense either.

 

[kutulu]

thors undies!!! this is getting almost interesting!!!

 

[waitasec]

Jesus told the sinner on the cross besides him. "Today you will be with me in Paradise". The JW's take this as meaning asleep untill the resurection. However I disagree. Sheol is not paradise and is not described as such anywhere in the bible.

yet in mark he has no idea what's happening...
"why has thou forsaken me?"

Although the bible states those that hope in me will be saved, it is not just about thinking it. Some effort is involved.

like what? nothing more than what a good decent person is capable of doing...
nothing special here...
i mean really, do you need the bible to figure this stuff out?

The sinner that was saved on the cross did not have time for works. This man was truly repentant sufficiently that he was saved without works. Jesus knew the state of his heart. God is merciful as well vengefull. Humans are created in the image of God.

that's because the audience the gospel of luke was intended for was geared towards gentiles...

I say when you create something you get to make the rules and no one else has to like or agree with them as that is irrelevant. Neither does God need to explain why He has done anything. We get a choice and if eternal death is what one seeks then one will likely get it in the end.

yea, god sure seems insecure...
'believe in me, or else'

 

[sojourner]

yet in mark he has no idea what's happening...
"why has thou forsaken me?"

That's not what it means. In fact, it means precisely the opposite. That quotation is lifted directly from Psalm 22, a Biblical lament.

yea, god sure seems insecure...
'believe in me, or else'

You have to look theologically deeper than that.

 

[waitasec]

That's not what it means. In fact, it means precisely the opposite. That quotation is lifted directly from Psalm 22, a Biblical lament.

but he's asking "why"
psalm 22
My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
Why are you so far from saving me,
so far from my cries of anguish?
2 My God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer,
by night, but I find no rest.

here is a psalm that comes from a place of insecurity and abandonment quite a contrast from


luke 23:42 Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.[d]”

43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”
so are we to imagine after jesus says this to the guy, he then screams out "why have you forsaken me?" is narratively cohesive?


luke was written for a greco-roman audience, and describes the crusifixion scene quite differently than in mark which was written for a jewish audience shortly after the temple was destroyed...

mark ends with
16:8 Trembling and bewildered, the women went out and fled from the tomb. They said nothing to anyone, because they were afraid.[a]

[The earliest manuscripts and some other ancient witnesses do not have verses 9–20.]

You have to look theologically deeper than that.

john 3:16
'...that whosoever believes in him shall not perish BUT have everlasting life"
if that isn't a ultimatum eliciting a certain response, i don't know what one is...

the purpose of this passage is to establish control based on fear...

can you explain the difference between a theological conclusion and a logical conclusion would be?

 

[Orias]

However, that's not true for the majority of Xy -- just American Xy, which is my point: When one becomes Xian, one doesn't learn Greek, or Hebrew, or even Latin anymore. One uses whatever is the vernacular for one's culture. Xy is getting HUGE in Africa, and Xy there has taken on a decidedly African flavor. Xy tends to take on the characteristics of its culture -- wherever it is -- not the other way 'round. Xy has no culture of its own that can be identified either nationally or ethnically.

You don't need to complicate it.

Christianity is what it is, and the American culture is based off the conceeded points. I never claimed the "Xy" had a culture of it's own, just merely that it is embedded in American culture.

Your point is irrelevant to mine.

 

[kutulu]

y is that that the people in the bible sopposedly talk in metaphors thrue half of the bible and plain english thrue the rest of it?

seams to me people are trying to make something from nothing...
or nothing from something...

edit: of course i suppose that you have to consider that it has been re-written a dozen times. lol.