Why the angst when

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I find it interesting listening to the news these days, especially when the President (or my Prime Minister), government health agencies and other experts, revise statements that were made previously. Then, the press screams questions like “but didn’t you say people who were fully vaccinated can do anything, or don’t need to wear masks?”

There is still so abysmally little understanding of science out there. The presumption seems to be that once we learn something about a virus, that’s it! Nothing will ever change, nothing more to learn here. Nothing ever changes – especially nature.

Today, on the stops of the Capitol, Republican House Minority Leader accused the CDC of issuing “new guidance, different from what they said before!” Doesn’t the CDC know, at any moment in time, everything it will ever know in all future moments in time?

Really?

Get over it, folks. Science isn’t religion. In religion, the expectation (usually silly) that nothing will ever change again, and every effort is made to try and safeguard every bit of dogma forever – even when it looks wrong. In science, sorry, but everything changes all the time – especially when it looks wrong.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Drives me a little spare too. As do business demands for a date when things will return to normal.

I understand entirely the motivation in asking, but any answer they wrangle out of a politician (health professionals aren't about to give one) isn't worth anything anyway.

Our information, guidelines and planning should develop over time with something like this. Hold people to account, but for the right reasons.

 

[Father Heathen]

People love things to be black and white and set in stone.

 

[Polymath257]

Not to mention it is an evolving (literally) situation. We are all learning as we go along.

And yes, those who don't mask and don't get vaccinated have skewed the predictions made under the assumption people would do what is necessary.

 

[stvdv]

In science, sorry, but everything changes all the time

Scientists have made a big joke of science in just 2 years, claiming things 1 day, and the opposite the next day, and not once, but dozens of times. Not smart (meaning quite stupid, unless they are smart, but pretend to be stupid... time will tell... soon)

 

[viole]

I find it interesting listening to the news these days, especially when the President (or my Prime Minister), government health agencies and other experts, revise statements that were made previously. Then, the press screams questions like “but didn’t you say people who were fully vaccinated can do anything, or don’t need to wear masks?”

There is still so abysmally little understanding of science out there. The presumption seems to be that once we learn something about a virus, that’s it! Nothing will ever change, nothing more to learn here. Nothing ever changes – especially nature.

Today, on the stops of the Capitol, Republican House Minority Leader accused the CDC of issuing “new guidance, different from what they said before!” Doesn’t the CDC know, at any moment in time, everything it will ever know in all future moments in time?

Really?

Get over it, folks. Science isn’t religion. In religion, the expectation (usually silly) that nothing will ever change again, and every effort is made to try and safeguard every bit of dogma forever – even when it looks wrong. In science, sorry, but everything changes all the time – especially when it looks wrong.

Simple. They abhor uncertainty. They abhor risk. They abhor the fact that knowledge is not certain, and can be overruled tomorrow, when new evidence is present. They abhor black swans, and the fact that we all could spend our life being convinced of something which is defeated one day before our deaths. And that is why they could not possibly understand how an old scientists can congratulate a young one for proving him wrong on something he accepted his entire life.

And that is why they can only find comfort in something that cannot change, no matter how implausible that is.

Since I am not politically correct, I will venture to say that they are intellectually insecure and pusillanimous. And an active obstacle to the acquisition of new knowledge.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Not to mention it is an evolving (literally) situation. We are all learning as we go along.

And yes, those who don't mask and don't get vaccinated have skewed the predictions made under the assumption people would do what is necessary.

That's a strange assumption in some places. People in the US seem to behave quite a bit differently from those in Canada, for instance. Canadians are much more likely to wear masks when asked (not told) than Americans are. We're also getting vaccinated at a much higher rate.

For example, people over 70 in Canada have been vaccinated at a rate over 95% for the first shot, and approaching 90% for the second. As a result, we are presently (as of Tuesday) at 14.05 new Covid cases per million people per day, compared to the US at 185.21 new cases per million people. To me, that is a pretty stark comparison.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I find it interesting listening to the news these days, especially when the President (or my Prime Minister), government health agencies and other experts, revise statements that were made previously. Then, the press screams questions like “but didn’t you say people who were fully vaccinated can do anything, or don’t need to wear masks?”

There is still so abysmally little understanding of science out there. The presumption seems to be that once we learn something about a virus, that’s it! Nothing will ever change, nothing more to learn here. Nothing ever changes – especially nature.

Today, on the stops of the Capitol, Republican House Minority Leader accused the CDC of issuing “new guidance, different from what they said before!” Doesn’t the CDC know, at any moment in time, everything it will ever know in all future moments in time?

Really?

Get over it, folks. Science isn’t religion. In religion, the expectation (usually silly) that nothing will ever change again, and every effort is made to try and safeguard every bit of dogma forever – even when it looks wrong. In science, sorry, but everything changes all the time – especially when it looks wrong.

Here's a good reason why.

Kinda deflates the veracity of expert opinion.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Scientists have made a big joke of science in just 2 years, claiming things 1 day, and the opposite the next day, and not once, but dozens of times. Not smart (meaning quite stupid, unless they are smart, but pretend to be stupid... time will tell... soon)

Please provide examples. They could prove most enlightening.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Not to mention it is an evolving (literally) situation. We are all learning as we go along.

And yes, those who don't mask and don't get vaccinated have skewed the predictions made under the assumption people would do what is necessary.

What gets me is when we are told once you get a vaccination you don't need a mask, by the experts. Now it's wear a mask even if your vaccinated, by the experts.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Here's a good reason why.

Kinda deflates the veracity of expert opinion.

I see!

And did Dr. Fauci say these things all on the same day? Or was there some time, some study, some opportunity to learn new things between each statement? Or is it a human requirement to instantly grok the totality of all possible future information on first discovery?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Not to mention it is an evolving (literally) situation. We are all learning as we go along.

It can also mutate into a less harmful variation.

Once this batch is gone.


Look at the Spanish flu.

Same thing for Covid.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I see!

And did Dr. Fauci say these things all on the same day? Or was there some time, some study, some opportunity to learn new things between each statement? Or is it a human requirement to instantly grok the totality of all possible future information on first discovery?

It shows they even can't make up their mind either. So why should anything said now be taken seriously later? Keep contradiction alive you keep skepticism alive as well.

 

[Twilight Hue]

People love things to be black and white and set in stone.

Can't stand it if people desire stability?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

It shows they even can't make up their mind either. So why should anything said now be taken seriously later? Keep contradiction alive you keep skepticism alive as well.

I do not believe you are making a lot of sense here. When dealing with something brand new and extremely incompletely understood -- but which MIGHT be extremely dangerous (over 600,000 dead Americans seems dangerous to me) -- smart people make their very best guesses at how to deal with the situation. And they may not always be right -- they may need to continue to learn. And as they do, they may need to revise their views.

You, apparently, never revise your views on anything, seemingly believing yourself infallible.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I do not believe you are making a lot of sense here. When dealing with something brand new and extremely incompletely understood -- but which MIGHT be extremely dangerous (over 600,000 dead Americans seems dangerous to me) -- smart people make their very best guesses at how to deal with the situation. And they may not always be right -- they may need to continue to learn. And as they do, they may need to revise their views.

You, apparently, never revise your views on anything, seemingly believing yourself infallible.

I'll revise my views based on metrics and per capita data.

 

[Father Heathen]

It shows they even can't make up their mind either. So why should anything said now be taken seriously later? Keep contradiction alive you keep skepticism alive as well.

If you think it is better to "make up your mind" instead of having your understanding evolve alongside an ever growing body of knowledge then you might as well go back to religion, son (you already align yourself with theocrats so why not?) If we ignored new discoveries we wouldn't have the medicine or technology we have today.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I'll revise my views based on metrics and per capita data.

I provided some earlier:

Canadians wear masks without much griping. People over 70 in Canada have been vaccinated at a rate over 95% for the first shot, and approaching 90% for the second. As a result, we are presently (as of Tuesday) at 14.05 new Covid cases per million people per day, compared to the US at 185.21 new cases per million people. To me, that is a pretty stark comparison.

 

[Father Heathen]

Can't stand it if people desire stability?

Everyone desires stability, but stuffing our heads up our own asses isn't how mature, rational adults obtain it.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

It can also mutate into a less harmful variation.

Once this batch is gone.


Look at the Spanish flu.

Same thing for Covid.

So is it your contention that "it can also mutate into a less harmful variation" equivalent to "it will?"