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Why so little stuff about Vishnu?

Discussion in 'Hinduism DIR' started by Islington, Apr 3, 2017.

  1. Islington

    Islington Member

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    Greetings everyone,

    Several questions have been in my head and I feel that the Internet won't be of any more help than it has already been.

    Where I live, the core Hindu community is composed of mainly Tamil people that mainly hold onto Ganesha, Murugan and Shiva. My swami is Saivite and so is my house. White Hindu mainly focus on Ganesha, Krishna and Rama, from what I saw.
    Quite early, I developed an affinity for Vishnu. Even now, somehow, there is always something that calls me back to Him, pull did not fade.
    When I started to look for an idol of Him, Tamil people most often redirected me to Krishna, or Venkanteswara, sometimes. They would say "it's the same". In a sense, it is. But also not exactly, if you know what I mean.


    Now, this is my first question: I found many festivals for Shiva, Ganesha and Murugan all around the year ; there are, too, for Krishna and Rama but I didn't found so much for Vishnu.
    Why is that so, since Vaishnavism is such a huge sect? What are, if any, the festivals specifically dedicated to Vishnu and not one of His avatars?

    My second question is: how come that Krishna (and Rama to a lesser extent) seems to outshine Vishnu? A Krishna devotee went as far as saying that the last is only an aspect of the first.

    Lastly : I've heard that Ishta devata is the one divinity that you adore even if no one tells you to. My swami says that, as a saivite, Shiva is the Ishta devata. But, even though I consider and accept Shiva as supreme and that I appreciate the saivite path, I couldn't for the life of me, renounce to Narayana. (to be honest, I'm even happier with the concept of HariHara than Vishnu and Shiva separated) So... does this make me a "bad" saivite? or, rather at this point, apprentice?


    As a bonus, if any of you could point me to some reading material to know more Vishnu and/or advice to offer a home puja, I'd be grateful.


    Thank you, all, for your patience in reading me!
     
    #1 Islington, Apr 3, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2017
  2. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    Vannakkam: The Vaishnavite path you are looking for is called Srivaishnavism. It's the south Indian version of Vaishnavism based on the Vaishmava Agamas and the Alwars. Maybe if you googled that, you'd get more info. Just as Saivism varies from north to south in India, so too does Vaishnivism. The avatar worship is more common in the north just as the anthropomorphised version of Saivism is.

    Not sure if this helped.

    Tirupati is a Srivaishnava temple. In terms of style, mantras, and all that, there is more similarity regionally, but in terms of philosophy, there is more similarity by sects.
     
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  3. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    Festivals that we celebrate for the Avataras are indirectly for Lord Vishnu only. As Vinayaka said there are many temples dedicated to Lord Vishnu in his various forms (Venkateswara, Vitthala in Maharashtra, Padmanabha Swami in Kerala are examples). Fasts and pujas done on Ekadashi are for Lord Vishnu. Akshya Tritiya is the most important celebration for Lord Vishnu (2017 April 28). All Lakshmi festivals also are for Lord Vishnu too, since the Mother is inseparable from Lord Vishnu. All Tulsi pujas and festivals also are for Lord Vishnu. Festivals for Mother Ganga are related to Lord Vishnu since Ganges is supposed to arise from the feet of Lord Vishnu in Vaikuntha. The Vishwaroopa form of Lord Krishna is for Lord Vishnu only and so is his Sheshashayi form.

    Why do Lord Rama and Krishna shine? Because they are reflecting the glory of Lord Vishnu only. Get into the habit of your Tamil friends and begin to see Lord Vishnu in Rama and Krishna and Mother Laxmi in Mother Sita, Mothers Rukmani and others, and Srimati Radha Rani. Well, sometimes for love of their deity, people get in an overdrive. If someone thinks that Lord Vishnu is Paramatman or Lord Krishna is Paramatman, I tend to disregard that. Just as your attraction, their pull is for the forms, so excuse them.

    Being a devotee of Lord Vishnu does not make you a bad Shaivite You can give Lord Vishnu the first place and Lord Shiva the second. Lord Shiva would not mind knowing that Lord Vishnu is your Ishta. Hindu Gods and Goddesses are large-hearted and are not afflicted by jealousy and envy. As Vinayaka said, you will find the best information at the Srivaishnava sites. There are a few ardent SriVaishnava members in the forum but they are not visiting very regularly (hope some of them read this):

    Srivaishnava Sampradhayam
    Google
     
    #3 Aupmanyav, Apr 3, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2017
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  4. Shantanu

    Shantanu Well-Known Member

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    It is not not helpful to have an understanding that does not stand to reason. I consider Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva the three gods of the Trimurti (Guna Consciousness Energy) whereas Sri Krishna is the Supreme God and Paramatma who resides in every heart and can be invoked through surrender. Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva are the extremes of sattvic, rajasic and tamasic Deities respectively. This is very different from what traditional Hinduism leads us to consider as incarnations and avatars. Considerable numbers of people believe that Krishna is an incarnation of Vishnu. It cannot be Ram is an incarnation of Sri Krishna. Durga is an incarncation of Sri Krishna.
     
  5. Jainarayan

    Jainarayan ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
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    Yes, I made this. ;)

    sivasya hridayam vishnur.jpg
     
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  6. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    People seem more interested in Heroes and Avatars these days.
    I'm reminded of the Roman Catholics who are often more devoted to Mary than to Jesus.
     
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  7. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    Lord Vishnu is no less a hero. ;) Remember, how he rushed to save Gajendra without waiting to wear his shoes.

    [​IMG]
     
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  8. Islington

    Islington Member

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    Thank you for enlightening me. I must say that I had yet to hear about Srivaishnavism - I'm going to do some more research, then!

    You made this? It does look wonderful! I have to say, though, that my ignorance go as far as not understanding its full meaning. :oops:
     
  9. Jainarayan

    Jainarayan ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
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    Yeah, I do a very little graphic artsy stuff. It is Harihara, the combined form of Vishnu and Shiva. It means basically that Shiva and Vishnu are one and the same. When you see Shiva you see Vishnu. They are the heart (hrday) of each other.
     
  10. Islington

    Islington Member

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    But about the text underneath? Is it your own too?
     
  11. Chakra

    Chakra Well-Known Member
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    Just as a reminder, but SriVaishnavism (and most sects of Vaishnavism) do not consider absolute identity between Vishnu and Shiva. Vishnu is always the foremost deity, with Shiva as his devotee. Additionally, the "Hari-Hara" avatar is not interpreted to be a combined form of Shiva and Vishnu; it is a form of Vishnu only with attributes of Shiva.

    If you have any questions about SriVaishnavism, you can ask me, @Terese, and @StarryNightshade (who was actually initiated into the sect).
     
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  12. Terese

    Terese Mangalam Pundarikakshah
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    Holy Mackerel! You love Lord Visnu? Me too! :D Lord Visnu, Lord Rama and Lord Krishna are the same Supreme Lord, but due to our own biases and fancies, we love dearly a form of the Lord. This is not wrong! Ramanandis love Lord Rama so much, Gaudiyas love Lord Krishna so much, and Sri Vaisnavites/ Tattva Vadins love Narayana so much! So much love!

    I do not know why there aren't many festivals dedicated to Lord Visnu's 4 armed form, but you must understand that Lord Krishna and Lord Rama are Him, enjoying His lila on Earth. I would say lila is the reason, for Narayana's pastimes are so wonderful and so many people are inspired by it. Today (or tomorrow for others) it is Ram Navami, the appearance of Lord Rama! Lord Rama is Narayana, as he walks the earth He is accompanied by Sita, who is Lakshmi, and Lakshmana, who is Ananta Shesha. But i understand, who want to see Narayana's 4 armed form celebrated, His Original form, as what us Sri Vaisnavas would say.

    Lord Krishna and Lord Rama do seem to outshine Narayana in regards to popularity, but this is superficial. Celebrating Lord Krishna is celebrating Lord Rama is celebrating Narayana. At least, this is how i think :) The Divine Transcendental Lilas of Gopinantha are very sweet, praising them is very easy. This is a gift, from Narayana, and he would love for you to accept it :D

    If you are happy with your concept of HariHara, i see no reason why this would make you a bad Saivite. Most Saivites adhere to Adwaita, their version of Adwaita, and so i do not think it's unheard of. You may need to ask some more Saivites :D
     
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  13. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    Satyanarayana Vrata, every Chaturdashi (a day before Full Moon, Poornima) for the four-armed Lord Vishnu.
     
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  14. Jainarayan

    Jainarayan ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
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  15. Fireside_Hindu

    Fireside_Hindu Jai Lakshmi Maa

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    There is also Tulsi Vivaha - which celebrates Lord Vishnus marriage to Tulsi Devi.

    Perhaps this may sound scandalous, but in light of the fact that others keep trying to convince you to feel the same way about Rama and Krishna as you do about Vishnu (which you don't and that's okay) may I suggest an alternative for your bhakti?

    Since there are not many established festivals for Lord Vishnu in the same way as there are for his avatars why not...come up with you own? Learn about different rituals and festivals that are celebrated for the avatars and construct a special puja for the Lord all on your own. I know it doesn't sound as exciting, but who knows? It might be just what you need.

    To offer up one example, this year, based on Navratri celebrations in the past, Dussehra as well as inspired by the Kolu Doll tradition, I thought up a way to ritualistically celebrate the victory of the Goddess over our various vices and shortcomings. I will make 9 paper dolls that represent asuras of greed, anger, jealousy etc and each day after I do puja I will burn one.

    As far as I know, that doesn't exist in any scripture or tradition, but it felt like it might be a meaningful way for me to get even more from the Navratri season.
     
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  16. Terese

    Terese Mangalam Pundarikakshah
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    That is quite interesting! Never thought about that :D (I know you weren't referring to me :) )
     
  17. Islington

    Islington Member

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    Actually, this is very exciting :DI love the idea -and with all your help and suggestions, there's more grist to the mill now.
     
  18. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    I am an advaitist Hindu pagan and a strong atheist.
    Lord said there are six. I would like to know your nine. That is wholesale destruction of demons. :)

    "Dambho darpo abhimānah ca, krodhaḥ pāruṣyam eva ca;
    ajñānaḿ ca abhijātasya, pārtha sampadam āsurīm.
    " BG 16.4

    Pride, arrogance, conceit, anger, harshness and ignorance — these qualities belong to those of demoniac nature, O son of Pṛthā (Arjuna).

    No, no such tradition exists. Get a copy-right.
     
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  19. Fireside_Hindu

    Fireside_Hindu Jai Lakshmi Maa

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    I can extrapolate on a few more - Anger, Greed, Arrogance, Ignorance, Jealousy, Fear, Laziness, Lack of Compassion, Selfishness

    As for a copyright - none needed. There's money to be made in religion, but I think that might fall under "Selfishness" ;)
     
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  20. ratikala

    ratikala Istha gosthi

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    Namaskaram Ji



    all other the bad qualitys certainly belong to Ignorance , ....Visnu in his Buddha incarnation identified 84,000 deluded states of mind but as that is so hard to teach on it became simplified to the three we all know which encompas all ,' the three poisons '....Attatchment , Anger , Ignorance , ......all 84.000 deluded states of mind fall as shades between these three poisons , he then taught on the antidote practices , Selflessness/ Compassion for all living beings/ Giving , ....Patience/ forberance/ tollerance , ......Cultivation of Wisdom


    the Verses before the one quoted outline these qualities we should cultivate .....

    Ch ..16 V ..1-3

    sri-bhagavan uvaca
    abhayam sattva-samsuddhir
    jnana-yoga-vyavasthitih
    danam damas ca yajnas ca
    svadhyayas tapa arjavam
    ahimsa satyam akrodhas
    tyagah santir apaisunam
    daya bhutesv aloluptvam
    mardavam hrir acapalam
    tejah ksama dhrtih saucam
    adroho nati-manita
    bhavanti sampadam daivim
    abhijatasya bharata



    The Blessed Lord said: Fearlessness, purification of one's existence, cultivation of spiritual knowledge, charity, self-control, performance of sacrifice, study of the Vedas, austerity and simplicity; nonviolence, truthfulness, freedom from anger; renunciation, tranquility, aversion to faultfinding, compassion and freedom from covetousness; gentleness, modesty and steady determination; vigor, forgiveness, fortitude, cleanliness, freedom from envy and the passion for honor-these transcendental qualities, O son of Bharata, belong to godly men endowed with divine nature.


    Here we see perfect qualities , but one most often missunderstood , ... performance of sacrifice , ........
    most valuable of sacrifices is to give up our attatchment to self , too many times this is thought to be performance of ritual , ...ritual alone without sacrifice of attatchment is empty ​
     
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