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Why so little Christian anti-capitalism?

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
I noticed a few threads lately talking about the command to "be fruitful and multiply" and it got me to thinking:

The Garden of Eden story describes God saying many different things to Adam and Eve, but Christians seem to give them... varying weight.

"Be fruitful and multiply" gets a lot of play. It's brought up frequently in the context of family planning. It even served as the main inspiration for an entire Christian movement (the Quiverfull movement).

God's curse on Eve as she's thrown out of the garden - i.e. that she will have to suffer pain in childbirth - even gets brought up sometimes in the context of whether anaesthetic should be used for people giving birth.

... but what I never hear Christians talking about is God's curse on Adam: that he will have to work "by the sweat of his brow." Why not?

It seems to me that this is just as much a repudiation of earning income not tied to labour (e.g. return on capital invested) as "be fruitful and multiply" is a repudiation of birth control.

Still, AFAICT, we never hear Christian thought leaders condemning "passive" income or earning return on capital.

So what gives?
 

74x12

Well-Known Member
I noticed a few threads lately talking about the command to "be fruitful and multiply" and it got me to thinking:

The Garden of Eden story describes God saying many different things to Adam and Eve, but Christians seem to give them... varying weight.

"Be fruitful and multiply" gets a lot of play. It's brought up frequently in the context of family planning. It even served as the main inspiration for an entire Christian movement (the Quiverfull movement).

God's curse on Eve as she's thrown out of the garden - i.e. that she will have to suffer pain in childbirth - even gets brought up sometimes in the context of whether anaesthetic should be used for people giving birth.

... but what I never hear Christians talking about is God's curse on Adam: that he will have to work "by the sweat of his brow." Why not?

It seems to me that this is just as much a repudiation of earning income not tied to labour (e.g. return on capital invested) as "be fruitful and multiply" is a repudiation of birth control.

Still, AFAICT, we never hear Christian thought leaders condemning "passive" income or earning return on capital.

So what gives?
Why should Christians condemn passive income?

For example let's say a Christian came into a small fortune somehow or other. They could just do a really good deed and give it all to some charity; which would be fine. But on the other hand they could invest it and give from the profit to charity. In the long run they would actually have the potential to give more to charity by investing first.

Even Jesus gave the parable about the servants given sums of money to invest. Now we know that Jesus was speaking of spiritual matters not actual money. But, this still shows the wisdom behind investing money.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
"You cannot serve God and mammon" seems pretty anti-capitalist to me.
And what's horribly ironic is the sheer numbers of Christian evangelicals who supported, and support, Trump.
Trump is the High Priest of Mammon.

Money, Fame, Sex, Deceit. He's the master!

And the darling of Evangelical Christians, what's wrong with that? Nothing, that's what. Christians are, and always have been, the kind of people Jesus despised. From medieval popes to Trump, Christians have always been about temporal riches.

Mostly, not all Christians are like that. But that is what the simple reading of the Bible teaches.
Except for Jesus, He didn't say that. Christians don't care about that.
Tom
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Isn't it a carry-over of calvinism? Isn't the idea: The people who are blessed with capital are predestined to be wealthy?

( Note: I am not at all defending this POV. I'm simply answering the OP. )
 

dianaiad

Well-Known Member
And what's horribly ironic is the sheer numbers of Christian evangelicals who supported, and support, Trump.
Trump is the High Priest of Mammon.

Money, Fame, Sex, Deceit. He's the master!

Snort.

And yet the Democrats supported Clinton.....he and his wife took nearly $200,000 worth of stuff that they ended up being shamed into giving back. As well, he and his stuff vandalized the White House...leaving pictures depicting Bush as a chimpanzee (how come that is perfectly ok with liberals if aimed at a white guy, but is considered to be the worst insult possible if aimed at a black one?) removing the 'w' keys from all the keyboards, stealing the antique door knobs and gluing drawers shut...and let us not forget the matter of sexual misconduct in the Oval Office. Liberals seem to think that supporting that sort of thing is perfectly acceptable,

I hate hypocrisy.
 

Sand Dancer

Crazy Cat Lady
I noticed a few threads lately talking about the command to "be fruitful and multiply" and it got me to thinking:

The Garden of Eden story describes God saying many different things to Adam and Eve, but Christians seem to give them... varying weight.

"Be fruitful and multiply" gets a lot of play. It's brought up frequently in the context of family planning. It even served as the main inspiration for an entire Christian movement (the Quiverfull movement).

God's curse on Eve as she's thrown out of the garden - i.e. that she will have to suffer pain in childbirth - even gets brought up sometimes in the context of whether anaesthetic should be used for people giving birth.

... but what I never hear Christians talking about is God's curse on Adam: that he will have to work "by the sweat of his brow." Why not?

It seems to me that this is just as much a repudiation of earning income not tied to labour (e.g. return on capital invested) as "be fruitful and multiply" is a repudiation of birth control.

Still, AFAICT, we never hear Christian thought leaders condemning "passive" income or earning return on capital.

So what gives?

Right wing Christians hate the government for some reason, fiscally anyway. I don't know why. There are so
many things that evangelicals made up that they pretend is biblical.
 

Yokefellow

Active Member
The Christian Bible promotes Capitalism...

Matthew 25:9
"But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves"
 

Regiomontanus

Ματαιοδοξία ματαιοδοξιών! Όλα είναι ματαιοδοξία.
I noticed a few threads lately talking about the command to "be fruitful and multiply" and it got me to thinking:

The Garden of Eden story describes God saying many different things to Adam and Eve, but Christians seem to give them... varying weight.

"Be fruitful and multiply" gets a lot of play. It's brought up frequently in the context of family planning. It even served as the main inspiration for an entire Christian movement (the Quiverfull movement).

God's curse on Eve as she's thrown out of the garden - i.e. that she will have to suffer pain in childbirth - even gets brought up sometimes in the context of whether anaesthetic should be used for people giving birth.

... but what I never hear Christians talking about is God's curse on Adam: that he will have to work "by the sweat of his brow." Why not?

It seems to me that this is just as much a repudiation of earning income not tied to labour (e.g. return on capital invested) as "be fruitful and multiply" is a repudiation of birth control.

Still, AFAICT, we never hear Christian thought leaders condemning "passive" income or earning return on capital.

So what gives?

Capitalism is evil. What would Jesus do? Be a socialist, obviously.
 

74x12

Well-Known Member
The Christian Bible promotes Capitalism...

Matthew 25:9
"But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves"
Liberals tend to confuse capitalism with evil capitalism. Obviously there are evil capitalists out there but also a lot of hard working decent ones.
 

shmogie

Well-Known Member
I noticed a few threads lately talking about the command to "be fruitful and multiply" and it got me to thinking:

The Garden of Eden story describes God saying many different things to Adam and Eve, but Christians seem to give them... varying weight.

"Be fruitful and multiply" gets a lot of play. It's brought up frequently in the context of family planning. It even served as the main inspiration for an entire Christian movement (the Quiverfull movement).

God's curse on Eve as she's thrown out of the garden - i.e. that she will have to suffer pain in childbirth - even gets brought up sometimes in the context of whether anaesthetic should be used for people giving birth.

... but what I never hear Christians talking about is God's curse on Adam: that he will have to work "by the sweat of his brow." Why not?

It seems to me that this is just as much a repudiation of earning income not tied to labour (e.g. return on capital invested) as "be fruitful and multiply" is a repudiation of birth control.

Still, AFAICT, we never hear Christian thought leaders condemning "passive" income or earning return on capital.

So what gives?
And what makes you think what you call passive earning should be condemned by Christians ?
 

74x12

Well-Known Member
Aye, I'm surprised how many Christians I know oppose
capitalism in one way or another. They still oppose
socialism/communism. Weird.
It's easy to oppose communism as a Christian when you learn what they did to Christians in Soviet Russia, China, NK etc.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Why should Christians condemn passive income?
Because of Adam's sin, apparently:

17 But to Adam he said,
“Because you obeyed your wife
and ate from the tree about which I commanded you,
‘You must not eat from it,’
cursed is the ground thanks to you;
in painful toil you will eat of it all the days of your life.
18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
but you will eat the grain of the field.
19 By the sweat of your brow you will eat food
until you return to the ground,
for out of it you were taken;
for you are dust, and to dust you will return.”


Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 3:17-19 - New English Translation
For example let's say a Christian came into a small fortune somehow or other. They could just do a really good deed and give it all to some charity; which would be fine. But on the other hand they could invest it and give from the profit to charity. In the long run they would actually have the potential to give more to charity by investing first.
Sure. We can come up with scenarios where it would be good to disobey what God is saying here, just as we can come up with scenarios where it would be good to disobey "be fruitful and multiply." I think that's missing the point, though.

Say a Christian gets a significant portion of their income from passive sources; he owns a bunch of stocks that pay dividends, say. If that's what he uses to buy his food, then how is his food coming "from painful toil" and "by the sweat of his brow?"

The question goes double if he acquired the money to buy those stocks through an inheritance.

Even Jesus gave the parable about the servants given sums of money to invest. Now we know that Jesus was speaking of spiritual matters not actual money. But, this still shows the wisdom behind investing money.
In the parable, the servant wasn't instructed to live off the proceeds of the investment.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
The Christian Bible promotes Capitalism...

Matthew 25:9
"But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves"
Exactly how do you think that verse in context supports capitalism?

Read the rest of the passage and you'll see that the virgins who were out "buying for themselves" ended up missing the return of the Son of Man.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
And what makes you think what you call passive earning should be condemned by Christians ?
Just as I described in the OP: the curse that God puts on humanity for Adam's sin is that each person - or maybe just men, depending on interpretation - must gain his sustenance by their own labour: "toil" by "the sweat of his brow."

Someone who gains their sustenance by, say, returns on a mutual fund portfolio or by rental income as a landlord isn't gaining their sustenance through personal toil "by the sweat of their brow."
 
Still, AFAICT, we never hear Christian thought leaders condemning "passive" income or earning return on capital.

It used to be the position of the Catholic Church, but they revised the belief to reflect the nature of the modern economy. Usury is forbidden, but not reasonable interest. Charging interest is not forbidden in Jewish law either.

Don't know much about the theological underpinnings of these though.
 
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