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Featured Why should we care?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Nimos, Feb 6, 2020.

  1. Nimos

    Nimos Well-Known Member

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    If we assume that whatever God one believe in is true and have created everything.

    Why should we care about what that God think, so from a human or personal point of view, why would you care about what your God thinks?

    The reason I ask this is, because what do one gain from it or what do one try to achieve by it. Because if its about hope of living forever, could one not argue that. The reason people care, is out of fear rather than good?

    Also as an atheist myself, I obviously do not care about a God, yet I consider my self a rather decent human being, meaning I don't intentional try to hurt others etc. So if its about doing or being a good human being, that is perfectly possible as a non believer.

    So again, think it could be interesting to hear why religious people care about what their God think?
     
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  2. Iymus

    Iymus Active Member

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    I would imagine with him being greater it would be beneficial to be tuned into his frequency.

    I do not see the Fear of God as a bad thing.

    Subjective. If by our own laws difficult "if not impossible" to be fair and impartial.
     
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  3. Quintessence

    Quintessence Tale Weaver
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    The gods in polytheistic religions aren't really "creator gods" in the same fashion as the one-god of the Bible, but the appraisal of gods upon humans is important for pretty simple reasons.

    Humans have all sorts of relationships, and some of those relationships can be with the gods. In any kind of relationship, the appraisal that those involved have of each other is important. It's not really any more complicated than that, honestly. If you want to develop meaningful relationships with someone - anyone - what you think of each other matters.
     
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  4. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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    It's really about what the religious think about what their particular God is doing and saying.
     
  5. sun rise

    sun rise "This is the Hour of God"
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    God to me does not "think". Thinking is a function of the brain.

    But it's also true that when God becomes man, the Avatar, or a human becomes perfect, then we have both God and human at the same time.

    Such a one, being the Truth, manifests the Truth. And one who truly seeks truth beyond personal preference will automatically be drawn to the truth manifest in human form.
     
  6. Galateasdream

    Galateasdream Active Member

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    If God is both omnibenevolent and omniscient, and the ground of all reason, beauty and good, it makes perfect sense to listen to Him since He has your best interests at heart and knows exactly the best thing, practically and morally, for you to do.

    To love and respect God is to love and respect reason, love, being, beauty, truth and 'the good' itself.
     
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  7. Nakosis

    Nakosis Time Efficient Lollygagger
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    Did you ever want to make your parents proud of you? Want the approval of someone you've looked up to?

    I never did, but I'd imagine it is something like that.
     
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  8. syo

    syo Well-Known Member

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    In Orthodox Christianity, God is active in our world. He treats us accordingly. So we care what he thinks of our actions.
     
  9. columbus

    columbus yawn <ignore> yawn

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    I wouldn't call it bad.
    Only that it's weak motivation to live a moral life. Especially when your version of "The Will of God" is drawn from messy Message as the Bible. People have justified all kinds of ugly behavior by quoting a verse or two.
    Tom
     
  10. Iymus

    Iymus Active Member

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    what do you consider strong motivation to live a moral life?

    does that negate the intention of seemingly Good Behavior and Standards of the Bible? People have justified bad behavior because that is what we want to do.
     
  11. Nimos

    Nimos Well-Known Member

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    But shouldn't that apply to everyone?

    To use a classic example, what about parents that looses their child at birth. You would still say to them, to comfort them, that God have their best interest at heart and knows exactly whats the best thing for them is, so that is why their baby died?

    But also, what about the baby? Was it in its best interest as well?
     
    #11 Nimos, Feb 6, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2020
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  12. Galateasdream

    Galateasdream Active Member

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    It does apply to everyone.
    It's just some don't recognise it and some don't. Like the laws of physics.

    That would be a crazy way to comfort them. I might express the idea that their child is now in a state of bliss and they will all be reunited, though. Which is infinitely better than all the alternatives.

    If relevant at some point, I'd also explain that I don't believe God directly orchestrates every event - that God did not desire or create their child's death.

    I think 'what is best for everyone' can involve a degree of abdication from the environment to allow for freewill, creative self-unfolding, and a partly intractable environment that allows for soul-making (via epistemic distance and the ability to develop virtues that involve less than perfect events) - typical responses to the PoE via the FWD and Ireanaic theodicy.
     
  13. columbus

    columbus yawn <ignore> yawn

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    A clear and rational recognition that we are all part of an interdependent web of life and experience, and we can't degrade the situation in general without degrading our own life. That living a moral lifestyle is much more likely to result in a satisfying life experience than not doing so.


    Not negate it, at least not the intention of it. No more than primitive efforts at curing diseases, generally not too effective, is negated by the fact that modern medicine is far more effective.

    One of the big problems I see with scriptural ethics is that it got set in type by some bishops 1400 years ago. Certain teachings were voted to be magically and permanently true. That's called canonization. A bunch of primitive people decided what God meant, and both discarded a batch of other teachings and reserved to themselves the future revelations from God.
    I don't consider that to have worked out very well.
    Tom
     
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  14. columbus

    columbus yawn <ignore> yawn

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    But when you take to the logical conclusion, and refer to abortion as the ultimate child care solution, they get all mad.
    :shrug:
    Tom
     
  15. Nimos

    Nimos Well-Known Member

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    But isn't that like simply getting God off the hook so to speak?

    If God created everything and I assume, since you have labelled yourself Christian, that you believe that Jesus rose from the dead and miracles as described in the bible have some sort of truth to them.

    But also in the first post you wrote that he was "omnibenevolent and omniscient", so if God is both of these and according to the bible is also able to rule over life and dead. Then couldn't he, when being omniscient and having the capabilities to give life, be seen as being somewhat passive in such situation, where parents might pray for their child and him not doing anything. He might not be directly causing the dead of the child, but clearly he is all powerful and it would require no effort for him to save it, yet chooses not to.

    What im trying to get to, with the "get off the hook" thing, is that when we are talking about the death of a child its clearly not Gods fault. But if by some miracle the child survived, would that be credited to God then?
    And if not, how do we even know when and if God is even doing anything and then again why should we care, if we can't tell the difference anyway?
     
  16. Iymus

    Iymus Active Member

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    So is up to ourselves alone to not be excessively opportunistic? Is it also up to ourselves alone to punish oneself for misdeeds?

    even when traditional medicine might be suppressed or hidden because not profitable?

    When you say primitive are you referring to people of old as Ancients or are you referring to them as Barbarians and Savages compare to you? Sometimes without clear intent behind words I am not sure how to respond so i asked.
     
  17. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    I have a Master in India. He gave some good pointers, I did not thought of myself. So, that's why I care what my Master thinks about it.
    Think of it, like when you are doing an exam. You care about what the examiner think (meaning you do it right, if he approves)

    Spirituality to me, is about how to live the best I can. My Guru (Master, Guide) has been very helpful in guiding me.
    I love self study, but thanks to my Master I learned a lot quicker. He taught me to find the Guru inside, as the voice of conscience.
     
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  18. GoodbyeDave

    GoodbyeDave Well-Known Member

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    For the record, not all of us believe in one god who created everything.

    Do you care about what your family thinks, or your friends, or your neighbours, or your colleagues? Of course the answer may be "no", in which case you're unlikely to care about a god either.
     
  19. Galateasdream

    Galateasdream Active Member

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    That's not the logical conclusion under a FLO account of the ethicality of killing, and the FWD and Soul-Making theodices, so fortunately I don't have that problem.

    However, I am able to avoid the issues of a lack of justice, recompense and death being mere untimely oblivion, which are far more likely to get grieving parents mad. And I've known plenty of religious parents with dead kids.
     
  20. Galateasdream

    Galateasdream Active Member

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    If you mean providing an adequate defence of the PoE and thus showing God is not to blame for suffering, yes. But it's both true and fair, so it's not a problem. Blaming someone for something not their fault is far more problematic, IMHO.

    Your assumptions about my xtian beliefs are somewhat misguided, since I'm far from a traditional xtian.

    Regarding the unanswered prayers I provide the same theocdices as before, since they deal with such things. Not that I wish to write a book in this thread detailing this well established defences against the problem of evil.
     
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