Why should one believe that something the TaNaKh predicts would actually literally occur?

[paarsurrey]

Doesn't say they took their status as Jews from their fathers.
You can have a brother without having a father.
Muhammad wasn't a Jew.

Israelis are in the line of Isaac and his elder brother was Ishmael. Muhammad is a descendant of Ishmael, and hence fulfills the prophecy "15 A prophet will the LORD thy God raise up unto thee, from the midst of thee, of thy brethren ".
Please
Regards

 

[Kirran]

Israelis are in the line of Isaac and his elder brother was Ishmael. Muhammad is a descendant of Ishmael, and hence fulfills the prophecy "15 A prophet will the LORD thy God raise up unto thee, from the midst of thee, of thy brethren ".
Please
Regards

I suppose one could stretch to including him in that category, given that translation of the Hebrew, fair enough. But one could easily include many millions of other people said to be descended from Isaac and Ishmael.

 

[paarsurrey]

I suppose one could stretch to including him in that category, given that translation of the Hebrew, fair enough. But one could easily include many millions of other people said to be descended from Isaac and Ishmael.

But how many like unto Moses, none but Muhammad?
"King James Bible
I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."
Deuteronomy 18:15
Deuteronomy 18:18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their fellow Israelites, and I will put my words in his mouth. He will tell them everything I command him.
Please
Regards

 

[Kirran]

But how many like unto Moses, none but Muhammad?
"King James Bible
I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."
Deuteronomy 18:15
Deuteronomy 18:18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their fellow Israelites, and I will put my words in his mouth. He will tell them everything I command him.
Please
Regards

What was so special about Muhammad? How was he "like unto Moses"? And Jesus was a Jew anyway so...

Also, many millions were. And why assume this person has already come?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

No. It will cause a great deal of grief for the parents. It is good for the baby. It will never have a worry for the res of its life.

Yes: if the baby's life ends, so

If there is a heaven as describe in the Bible, would you not like to go there and never have any pain or sorrow, and be with someone who loves you unconditionally?

I have never met a non-believer who wanted to die. Thaa is their chance to live for ever in Paradise.[/QUOTE]

There are prophecies, more than once in Tanakh, that state that the Jewish people will reject a great prophet, go into diaspora in many lands and return to their homeland in Israel.

WHILE THEY ARE IN MANY LANDS, IN EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THOSE LANDS THEY WILL BE THE CREAM, THE INTELLIGENTSIA, BLESSING THAT NATION, AND ALSO, IN EACH OF THOSE LANDS THEY WILL BE HATED, REJECTED AND PERSECUTED.

You can say all you like that we Jews will work hard to be educated, win Nobel prizes at a ratio of 48:1 (0.25% of the world, win 12% of the prizes) and etc. but if you say it was a self-fulfillment to be hated without a good reason (jealousy, perhaps?) and then persecuted, pogromed, expelled, raped and murdered in dozens of nations I will call you out as some kind of psychotic anti-Semite!

There is NO WAY Jews decided to self-fulfill Tanakh prophecies by being hated without any reason in 100 lands. NONE. The fact that we Jews since the diaspora have often said the Tanakh is man's word and not perhaps God's Word underscores how crazy, how sick, how insane it would be to say we self-fulfilled prophecy to be hated in 100 lands. Jews aren't motivated to self-fulfill prophecies they think are open to interpretation and perhaps not God's Word at all. Christians, however, noticed that the Jewish people fulfilled prophecy, again with little Jewish motivation to self-fulfill it.

The Bible is the Word of God.



Unfortunately, Jesus self-fulfilled the prophecies regarding the Messiah's resurrection by rising from the dead, willfully, intentionally, forever. So we can eliminate THOSE prophecies . . . I can see how "rational" rationalist denials of prophecy are.

Once you come to measure, I mean, measure it with data analysis, how extraordinary it is for a people to remain culturally and ethnically distinct for two millennia and return to their homeland, you will not any longer say "a mix of unsubstantiated claims and self-fulfilling prophecies".

If you have a Biblical prophecy that foretold that Jews would win 48% of Nobel Prizes, I'd love to hear it.

 

[omega2xx]

One did not mention the prophecy of Deuteronomy 18:15 now though its reference was given in one's earlier post #57 :

Deuteronomy 18:15
15 A prophet will the LORD thy God raise up unto thee, from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
Deuteronomy 18 / Hebrew - English Bible / Mechon-Mamre

It has been fulfilled with the advent of Muhammad in a very glorious way. Please



Then in whom this prophecy has been fulfilled. Please
Regards

It could be Jesus or John the Baptist. IMO it is John theh Baptist. Jesus did not act like a prophet during His incarnation.

 

[omega2xx]

Yes: if the baby's life ends, so

If there is a heaven as describe in the Bible, would you not like to go there and never have any pain or sorrow, and be with someone who loves you unconditionally?

I have never met a non-believer who wanted to die. That is their chance to live for ever in Paradise.

It is not a matter of wanting to die, it is a matter of fearing death. Unless Jesus comes bacdk in our lifetime, we are all going to die.

If you have a Biblical prophecy that foretold that Jews would win 48% of Nobel Prizes, I'd love to hear it.

Stick to the subject.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Stick to the subject.

I am. The subject is fulfilled prophecy. While talking about how the Jewish people supposedly fulfilled some sort of Biblical prophecy, Billiards Ball brought up a bunch of stuff - e.g. Jewish success at winning Nobel Prizes - as support for your claim. I'd like him (or you, if you're up to it) to relate all of that stuff back to specific prophecies that I can find in the Bible.

Can you do it?

 

[rosends]

Let's go out on a limb and venture it was Jesus?

Nah, there were plenty of other prophets it pointed to.

 

[Kirran]

Nah, there were plenty of other prophets it pointed to.

I reckon Jesus is a fairer guess than Muhammad though.

 

[rosends]

I reckon Jesus is a fairer guess than Muhammad though.

If I ask what 2+2=, lemon is as useful an answer as duck.

 

[Kirran]

If I ask what 2+2=, lemon is as useful an answer as duck.

Haha, OK, I liked the analogy.

Who you reckon it refers to? Or have they not come yet? Is 'prophet' a good translation?

 

[rosends]

Haha, OK, I liked the analogy.

Who you reckon it refers to? Or have they not come yet? Is 'prophet' a good translation?

There were plenty of prophets that came after Moses, starting with Joshua. No reason to look any further than that Judaism 101: Prophets and Prophecy

 

[Kirran]

There were plenty of prophets that came after Moses, starting with Joshua. No reason to look any further than that Judaism 101: Prophets and Prophecy

Cool - @paarsurrey, there you go. You'll definitely take this on board and adjust your arguments accordingly.

 

[paarsurrey]

Yes: if the baby's life ends, so

If there is a heaven as describe in the Bible, would you not like to go there and never have any pain or sorrow, and be with someone who loves you unconditionally?

I have never met a non-believer who wanted to die. Thaa is their chance to live for ever in Paradise.

If you have a Biblical prophecy that foretold that Jews would win 48% of Nobel Prizes, I'd love to hear it.[/QUOTE]
"If you have a Biblical prophecy that foretold that Jews would win 48% of Nobel Prizes, I'd love to hear it".

There is no such prophecy. Is there? Please
Anybody, please
I however appreciate that the Jews won so many noble-prizes. It is laudable.
Regards

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

"If you have a Biblical prophecy that foretold that Jews would win 48% of Nobel Prizes, I'd love to hear it".

There is no such prophecy. Is there?

I've never heard of one, but @BilliardsBall insinuated that there is one. I'm still waiting for clarification or support from him/her.

 

[Kirran]

I've never heard of one, but @BilliardsBall insinuated that there is one. I'm still waiting for clarification or support from him/her.

/them !

Bring down the gender binary.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

/them !

Bring down the gender binary.

Good point.

 

[Kirran]

Good point.

I love it when people take this stuff on board. Give me a hug homie.

 

[omega2xx]

I am. The subject is fulfilled prophecy. While talking about how the Jewish people supposedly fulfilled some sort of Biblical prophecy, Billiards Ball brought up a bunch of stuff - e.g. Jewish success at winning Nobel Prizes - as support for your claim. I'd like him (or you, if you're up to it) to relate all of that stuff back to specific prophecies that I can find in the Bible.

Can you do it?

There is no prophecy that Jews would win Noble prizes. In one of my posts I listed 3 that have b been fulfilled.