Why should God bother giving evidence ?

[PAUL MARKHAM]

but the pictures were, see post #147. The landscapes are beautiful. For me, this is evidence for a loving God. God loves us, I think.
My personal opinion.

So did he hate those who suffered from nature?

I'll list the bad things nature gives us.
Volcanos
Earthquakes
Tsunamis
Floods
Droughts
Landslides
Pests
Diseases
Cancer
Birth defects
Body defects
Cripples
Child Mortality

In Early Bronze Age times, life expectancy was short.

Based on Early Neolithic data, total life expectancy at 15 would be 28–33 years. Based on Early and Middle Bronze Age data, total life expectancy at 15 would be 28–36 years.

That's the world the storytellers lived in, their god was one that killed them very early with nature, they fought against nature every day. That's why they wrote the Flood, plagues, etc were from god. So didn't their god love them?

 

[thomas t]

Even people who suffer from

I'll list the bad things nature gives us.
Volcanos
Earthquakes
Tsunamis
Floods
Droughts
Landslides
Pests
Diseases
Cancer
Birth defects
Body defects
Cripples
Child Mortality

... still can enjoy nature. That's something. As I said.

That's the world the storytellers lived in, their god was one that killed them very early with nature, they fought against nature every day. That's why they wrote the Flood, plagues, etc were from god. So didn't their god love them?

As I said, even ten years in a beautiful nature is great.
During the flood, God wanted a new earth, as Bible says. So that was a unique occasion, normally nature looks great. Even for Bronze Agers... Bible provides stories where people praise God for nature even at that time. See Job. So I conclude... they must have seen nature as something beatiful.

 

[Spirit of Light]

So did he hate those who suffered from nature?

I'll list the bad things nature gives us.
Volcanos
Earthquakes
Tsunamis
Floods
Droughts
Landslides
Pests
Diseases
Cancer
Birth defects
Body defects
Cripples
Child Mortality

In Early Bronze Age times, life expectancy was short.

Based on Early Neolithic data, total life expectancy at 15 would be 28–33 years. Based on Early and Middle Bronze Age data, total life expectancy at 15 would be 28–36 years.

That's the world the storytellers lived in, their god was one that killed them very early with nature, they fought against nature every day. That's why they wrote the Flood, plagues, etc were from god. So didn't their god love them?

I can not speak for the Christians but according to islam the sickness and hardship is because of our own sin.

Hadith - Bukhari 7:564

I visited Allah's Apostle while he was suffering from a high fever. I touched him with my hand and said, "O Allah's Apostle! You have a high fever." Allah's Apostle said, "Yes, I have as much fever as two men of you have." I said, "Is it because you will get a double reward?" Allah's Apostle said, "Yes, no Muslim is afflicted with harm because of sickness or some other inconvenience, but that Allah will remove his sins for him as a tree sheds its leaves."

Hadith - Muslim & Bukhari

Abu Sa'id al-Khudri r.a. reported that the Prophet said: Whenever a Muslim is afflicted with a hardship, sickness, sadness, worry, harm, or depression --even a thorn's prick, Allah expiates his sins because of it.

Recorded by Bukhari in al-Adab ul-Mufrad (no. 493), verified authentic by al-Albani

"Expect good, because Allah (s.w.t.) makes a believer's sickness an expiation (for his sins) and a period of repose. As for a disbeliever falling sick, he is like a camel whose owner ties it and then lets it loose --it does not understand why it was tied, nor why it was freed."

So it looks like it is not Allah who is the cause of human suffereing after all.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

Even people who suffer from

... still can enjoy nature. That's something. As I said.

As I said, even ten years in a beautiful nature is great.
During the flood, God wanted a new earth, as Bible says. So that was a unique occasion, normally nature looks great. Even for Bronze Agers... Bible provides stories where people praise God for nature even at that time. See Job. So I conclude... they must have seen nature as something beatiful.

Enjoy nature in a country where we have man-made and managed nature in a temperate climate to be glad of. But look at the whole picture, place yourself in Bronze Age times, in a country where nature is as much your enemy as your friend. That's why they used nature as a threat against the people for not following their orders.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

I can not speak for the Christians but according to islam the sickness and hardship is because of our own sin.

Hadith - Bukhari 7:564

I visited Allah's Apostle while he was suffering from a high fever. I touched him with my hand and said, "O Allah's Apostle! You have a high fever." Allah's Apostle said, "Yes, I have as much fever as two men of you have." I said, "Is it because you will get a double reward?" Allah's Apostle said, "Yes, no Muslim is afflicted with harm because of sickness or some other inconvenience, but that Allah will remove his sins for him as a tree sheds its leaves."

Hadith - Muslim & Bukhari

Abu Sa'id al-Khudri r.a. reported that the Prophet said: Whenever a Muslim is afflicted with a hardship, sickness, sadness, worry, harm, or depression --even a thorn's prick, Allah expiates his sins because of it.

Recorded by Bukhari in al-Adab ul-Mufrad (no. 493), verified authentic by al-Albani

"Expect good, because Allah (s.w.t.) makes a believer's sickness an expiation (for his sins) and a period of repose. As for a disbeliever falling sick, he is like a camel whose owner ties it and then lets it loose --it does not understand why it was tied, nor why it was freed."

So it looks like it is not Allah who is the cause of human suffereing after all.

Of course they told the people that f they didn't do as they were told, god would punish them with nature.

What sin has a newborn baby committed that he's stillborn, born as a cripple, dwarf, blind, death, etc?

Or is that the Mother who committed the sin, even though she doesn't know when or where. LOL

 

[Spirit of Light]

Of course they told the people that f they didn't do as they were told, god would punish them with nature.

What sin has a newborn baby committed that he's stillborn, born as a cripple, dwarf, blind, death, etc?

Or is that the Mother who committed the sin, even though she doesn't know when or where. LOL

How should i know what sin other people have done? Do you think just because someone believe in Allah they automatically know what sin others have done?

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

How should i know what sin other people have done? Do you think just because someone believe in Allah they automatically know what sin others have done?

We are discussing nature as a sign that god exists. I say that's wrong because for all the good things in nature there are bad things. You bring up a quote that bad things n nature are because we sin.

So tell me what sins have a newborn baby committed? Because bad things happen in nature to them as well.

 

[Spirit of Light]

We are discussing nature as a sign that god exists. I say that's wrong because for all the good things in nature there are bad things. You bring up a quote that bad things n nature are because we sin.

So tell me what sins have a newborn baby committed? Because bad things happen in nature to them as well.

As i said. I can not say what sin other people have done. So no i can not answer that, because i do not know what God think or see as sin in babies.
As you noticed I am not God

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

As i said. I can not say what sin other people have done. So no i can not answer that, because i do not know what God think or see as sin in babies.
As you noticed I am not God

It's a pity your book hasn't got the answer then for you.

Maybe it's not gods work but nature doing what it has done for 100s of millions of years.

 

[Spirit of Light]

It's a pity your book hasn't got the answer then for you.

Maybe it's not gods work but nature doing what it has done for 100s of millions of years.

It is not my book, it is the Quran word by Allah not me.
You keep believing what you believe and i put my faith in Allah to let me realize more of the truth in the Quran.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

It is not my book, it is the Quran word by Allah not me.
You keep believing what you believe and i put my faith in Allah to let me realize more of the truth in the Quran.

I assumed you own a copy and that was the one I refered to as yours.

You believe I have made my conclusions on the hard evidence. Unless this mythical god decided to let us exist for 500.000 years, share the Earth with other Hominids, allow many species to exist longer than we have and still go extinct, etc. It's a manmade story.

You can believe in Hamlet or King Arthur doesn't make him real.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

This is what the people of the time believed you could be punished and even executed for.

Capital punishment in the Bible - Wikipedia

Crime and punishment in the Torah - Wikipedia

What are the top 70 major sins in Islam? - Quora

Seems the people who told the bible stories wanted to control the people and believed in things like witchcraft.

 

[MonkeyFire]

If faith is absolute trust, cosmic order is absolute science.

 

[metis]

cosmic order is absolute science.

Not when one considers quantum mechanics, which often defies the conventional laws of physics.