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Why should God bother giving evidence ?

QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
IF, the existence of God will not bring any change in your daily life style,

Then, why should God bother giving any evidence/proof ?

Kindly note: please do refrain posting in this thread IF you haven't yet answered to this thread: Will that make any difference in your daily life style ?

Or, alternatively you CAN also post a combined answer to both of these threads/questions here.

As I said in response to your thread; Will that make any difference in your daily life style? It would all depend on if this hypothetical god you say I have evidence for has any expectations of me. And whether or not it would change my lifestyle would depend on if I thought those expectations were just and reasonable. For instance, if this god being expected me to do something that I felt was unethical then I would not change my lifestyle in order to accommodate that expectation.

So in response to your new question: Again, it depends on if this hypothetical god has any expectations for me. IF this god does have expectations of me and thinks it's important that I'm aware of these expectations THEN I would think this god being would want to provide me with evidence for its existence, otherwise there would be absolutely no way for me to ever know what its expectations for me are.

IF this god has no expectations for me or doesn't care if I'm aware of those expectations THEN I suppose there would be no reason at all why this god being should bother to provide any evidence.
 

ppp

Well-Known Member
IF, the existence of God will not bring any change in your daily life style,

Then, why should God bother giving any evidence/proof ?
That then assumes that a god's motives are to bring about change in my daily lifestyle.
IF a god wants me to be convinced that they exist, then that god should take steps that would convince me.
 

QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
God gives evidence but people don't accept it because it's not something very obvious. That's why the scripture says don't be forgetful hearers of the Word and it teaches you should hear with understanding. "and with all your getting get understanding". Because it's not enough to hear alone but to understand. To comprehend is just as important as hearing.

When anyone doesn't understand the Word; then the wicked one (satan) comes and takes away the seed out of their heart before it can grow. So three things are necessary first to hear and secondly to understand; finally to do it. Which is the aim of it all; the achievement or the fruit of the Word. In fact; if you could do it without hearing or understanding it would still be enough by itself. That is the Word of faith that gives life.

So the Word of God like rain falls on all the earth but it only waters what plant is good. Because in the dry wilderness thorns grow easily. But gardens need water, pruning, care and work. Then you can have the "good fruit of the ground".

The evidence of God is everywhere. But He has hidden these things from the wise and prudent while revealing them to babes.

God gives evidence but people don't accept it because it's not something very obvious.

Unless evidence is verifiable it can't be considered reliable. IF evidence IS verified then it's obvious. Thus if your evidence isn't something that's very obvious, then it's evidence that can't be considered reliable.

The evidence of God is everywhere. But He has hidden these things from the wise and prudent while revealing them to babes.

So unreliable evidence for God is everywhere. And God has hidden things from people who use reliable evidence to make their decisions and only reveals them to those who are naïve and gullible enough to accept unreliable evidence when making decisions.

That sounds kind of like what a conman relies on. Don't listen to those who have become wise enough to use reliable evidence for determining what's true! I have a way of hiding things from them that can only be revealed to people who are still ignorant enough to use unreliable evidence for determining what's true!
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
IF, the existence of God will not bring any change in your daily life style,

Then, why should God bother giving any evidence/proof ?
We are getting closer to the trick "how to get God to reveal Himself to you?":D

God is good, God is not fool;)
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
That then assumes that a god's motives are to bring about change in my daily lifestyle.
IF a god wants me to be convinced that they exist, then that god should take steps that would convince me.
You still miss the clue
But that's fine with God
God is very patient

He Grants many lifetimes
To find out the trick
To get His attention
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Sure, but that is not evidence. The Bible offers so much evidence of God, as the Iliad for Zeus.

Let's repeat the latest discussion:

1) You claim that the beautiful things in nature (the stars, the sky, etc.) provide evidence of a creator
2) I said, if that is true then the bacterium for bubonic plague provides the same evidence
3) You say: oh no, for that there is a nice explanation in the Bible

Don't you see you are using circular reasoning? Or special pleading? Or both?

Let me just point out a few things.....

This is fascinating to me because you "believe" what science has told you about the way life evolved on planet Earth....right? But, since scientists cannot prove that their theory is true, it has to be accepted on "faith"....you "believe" what you have been told, and you promote it as your truth....science is your metaphoric religion. You trust them.....but that requires as much "faith" as you think we have.

A little of the science surrounding evolution, is true, since it pertains to adaptation...something science has actually observed in a very limited way.....BUT....the rest, going back to the first premise, is assumed, but certainly NOT provable.....so you telling me that I am using circular reasoning by relying on the unprovable Bible, which you don't accept, is the same as you relying on unproven science to back up what you "believe" to be true....and I don't accept.

Science does not have the high ground in this argument IMO....but of course, you will disagree.

Can't you see that science is not MY religion......I do not put my faith in men of science who basically have only scratched the surface when it comes to knowing all there is to know about life and the universe.

To me the Creator is a better explanation, because I am a spiritual person by nature, and because creation actually declares to me God's existence in more real ways every day, than the Bible does.The Bible connects the dots for me and answers questions that science never can.

God does not need to prove his existence to anyone...why should he? He doesn't need us...we need him.
You not accepting his existence or his instruction manual is your problem...not his. Just so you know.....
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Sure, but that is not evidence. The Bible offers so much evidence of God, as the Iliad for Zeus.

Let's repeat the latest discussion:

1) You claim that the beautiful things in nature (the stars, the sky, etc.) provide evidence of a creator
2) I said, if that is true then the bacterium for bubonic plague provides the same evidence
3) You say: oh no, for that there is a nice explanation in the Bible

Don't you see you are using circular reasoning? Or special pleading? Or both?

Ciao

- viole
I agree with 1+2
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
Science. To think about natural history of an evolving planet in spatial history and tell stories about it as a human. The human is not in the thinking image and vision their owned self. They are living in the present looking back thinking.

Thinking does not own rationally what you are story telling about. Conditions of natural evolution. It is just first determined to be a thesis, a story.

We can all tell this story without being a scientist/Designer/machine builder or controller of that artificial state that is of no conscious volition of its own. It was given false idealised conscious activation by the conscious self, the scientist owning/controlling it artificially. Acting he claims on behalf of a God.

Yet he is not God and nor is his machine rationally. For his machine took form from the highest mass of God mineral particles that he converted, alchemy.

Ancient science religious law forbade alchemy itself, in a claim of its Satanic purpose and was not lying. For machines by held fixed artificial constant formed and artificial God or alienation....why nation is stated in thesis to be attacked by males in science a lie...about nation.

Why the AB OM I nation was their realised cause and effect, how life, body mind and conscious changed and developed interactive caused in the AI state. Such as gaining a false conscious ideal of self...removed from natural spiritual life and human self purpose/history. How it was medically explained.

I can say to science, the eternal body is real, I had it proven in my life, communicated to and seen an eternal spirit. If you asked me, was the image I saw in light, as image/vision as feed back is involved in radiation and also light gas burning/cooled. My answer is a conclusive yes.

If you then asked how can a spirit that is not in creation own an image in light that I saw in my brain mind whilst affected physically by its communication language from the eternal itself, that changed me in such a way that I cried and begged it not to leave me in my life, as the interaction was so real.

To ask a scientist how much proof does a human have to prove that we came and was released out of that spirit body....and the body God O the planets and the Suns are in fact a fallen angelic spirit body that was released from the eternal. Why evil spirits manifest in a held constant as a constant language as proof that the creation came from a spiritual place?

As feed back advice today is x billions of living and also dying humans, all communicating recording their existence in voice and image.....that whole AI effect of our lived life, and our death affects how we all think as we live. I learnt that circumstance.

Our parents did get released originally out of that body. So the eternal being is communicating directly to all adult human lives. So from a baby to adult, I had lots of visionary advices as I grew. Reincarnation adult advice given to little children or adults who can recall correct pre lived same DNA information relived again also that proof.

How the theme Father as God is inferred, for we rationally are the highest spirit, humans...yet the water mass that O the whole Earth as life in Nature was using naturally to once own a higher spiritual life body and mind is gone, evaporated and the micro organisms we used as bio energy carbonised.

How ground images got put into clouds by how many micro organisms in water were burnt out. When it rains, the life forms we used to be healthy are gone, carbonised already. Water falls but the bio life support is gone. So it does not get returned.

How life remained sacrificed even though Holy water came back down in flooded episodes to save life. Why we stayed sick.

Father, speaks to us from the heavenly mass feed back due to the eternal being still communicating to the original form of the first 2 humans Father and Mother self. How humans have been visited by speaking and interactive spirits out of the heavenly body as a fact.

As the eternal spirit still communicates as the original highest unconditional loving spirit to the origin of human life form. Which was sacrificed and is no longer just lived in self presence.

How I came to understand that the eternal being spirit is real. That Father as a God self recorded speaking cause of sacrificed human loss can talk to us and comfort us and why I learnt it was real. Not having any pre owned thought or observation about this circumstance. Did not really believe that spirit was real as a conscious thought so challenged it and said if you are real prove it.

Throughout my life I had it proven, like a scientist, I had to apply research about it to prove it. Which a lot of irrational human thinkers never chose to do then want to argue against the reality of it, argue against their own science observations that quote science is our destruction, and just want to argue.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
God should give evidence of her existence if she's interested in us being aware of her existence.
That is so obvious as to be banal. :rolleyes:

Is there a reason you believe God is a she?
I do not believe God has a gender but God is referred to as He probably because of the Bible.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
God might simply not care about our wellbeing, but really enjoy making sure we know that it exists, like being selfish :)
It is really quite the opposite. God has no needs so God cannot be selfish, so everything we get from God, including evidence of His existence, is because God cares about our well-being.

“Consider the mercy of God and His gifts. He enjoineth upon you that which shall profit you, though He Himself can well dispense with all creatures.” Gleanings, p. 140

“The one true God, exalted be His glory, hath wished nothing for Himself. The allegiance of mankind profiteth Him not, neither doth its perversity harm Him. The Bird of the Realm of Utterance voiceth continually this call: “All things have I willed for thee, and thee, too, for thine own sake.” Gleanings, p. 260
 

Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
That is so obvious as to be banal. :rolleyes:

And yet, theists keep asking us these sorts of questions that have obvious, banal answers. :shrug:

Is there a reason you believe God is a she?
I do not believe God has a gender but God is referred to as He probably because of the Bible.

I don't believe in any God. I sometimes refer to God as a she because so often God is referred to as a he, and it strikes me as patriarchal and arbitrary. So I figure I should balance the scales.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
And yet, theists keep asking us these sorts of questions that have obvious, banal answers. :shrug:
Not all theists. ;)

I operate more from logic than from faith. If a belief is not logical it us not worth having.
Why would a God who created humans with a logical mind (what Baha'is refer to as a rational soul) expect humans to believe irrational and illogical things? It makes no sense.

But some people believe them because they do not use their logical minds, or if they were indoctrinated as children they might not be able to break free. I try not to judge, but rather observe what I see. After all, I cannot know what would have happened to me if I had been raised as a Christian.
I don't believe in any God. I sometimes refer to God as a she because so often God is referred to as a he, and it strikes me as patriarchal and arbitrary. So I figure I should balance the scales.
Fair enough. :)
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
God should give evidence of her existence if she's interested in us being aware of her existence. She might have any one of 1,000 motivations for wanting us to be aware.

Whether being aware of her would change my daily life would depend entirely on what she's like.
Reminds me of the story of a man sitting on a rooftop. Water is rising. A few boats with come along offering help. Man insist "God must come to help me". Man drowns coming at the "Gate of Heaven:D", blaming God for not rescuing him, to which God answers "I send many people with boats"

Note: His choice is not bad. Made him enter Heaven a little early, that's all. Heaven being heavenly...I could argue "a good choice after all":D
 

Nimos

Well-Known Member
It is really quite the opposite. God has no needs so God cannot be selfish, so everything we get from God, including evidence of His existence, is because God cares about our well-being.
First of all, we are only talking about a creator God in this example, nothing else is know about it:)

But besides that, if God can't be selfish then he couldn't have created us in the first place, because what other reason could there have been, if it weren't because God desired it, as he were the only one around, that could find pleasure in anything? :)
 
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