Why should diversity of religion exist?

[CG Didymus]

Neutral IS negative. You know that. I've just stopped. If it hasn't changed in 3 years, it isn't going to. Still, I'm glad you're offering up the alternative views. Somebody has to do the dirty work.

I don't see why the Baha'is here are calling what I'm saying negative. Some religions had bad practices, some still do. For me say to get rid of them isn't that much different from what Baha'is are saying. How come they always the negative side of what I'm trying to say?

Another thing I'd like you to comment on is... I do believe society needs to have some ground rules. But are people in religions the best ones to be making the rules? Especially if they are Christians? Modern secular society had to jump in there because religious rules weren't working. Is it different in Hindu society? And, I wonder, and this is what concerns Old Badger and I, will it be different in Baha'i society?

 

[CG Didymus]

I disagree and the statement stands.

The Baha'i system of elections have soled the problem about leadership and it is a great roll model for all governments.

It has also solved the problem within religion where people's own options cannot override the elected whole.

It is a model for the world to adopt and they do not need to be Baha'i to do that.

Regards Tony

From an article written by an ex-Baha'i...

Baha’is often describe their system of elected governing bodies as being more democratic than those prevalent in the wider society, since voters may choose any member in good standing. However, the election practices outlined by Shoghi Effendi prohibit campaigning of any kind, and assembly decisions are presented as unified without recording dissenting votes, so that it is impossible to know which policies any individual candidate supports. With so little information as a basis for decision, a Baha’i votes primarily on reputation and name recognition rather than on any particular issue or agenda. This, of course, gives incumbents a tremendous advantage, and suggestions have been made that current office-holders deliberately control who becomes visible enough within the community to become elected on the national level.[12] The ban on campaigning also inhibits any formation of reform movements from the grassroots. Even though they are elected bodies, Baha’i institutions are not considered to be accountable to the electorate, but only to God.
​

When I was with the Baha'is in the 70's, my friends would go to a convention and cast their votes for people to represent them. These people would vote for the people to serve on the NSA of the United States. Lots of the same people got elected to the NSA and also to be representatives. But, that's not to say it ain't better than the BS happening in our elections here in the U.S.

 

[Vinayaka]

I don't see why the Baha'is here are calling what I'm saying negative. Some religions had bad practices, some still do. For me say to get rid of them isn't that much different from what Baha'is are saying. How come they always the negative side of what I'm trying to say?

Another thing I'd like you to comment on is... I do believe society needs to have some ground rules. But are people in religions the best ones to be making the rules? Especially if they are Christians? Modern secular society had to jump in there because religious rules weren't working. Is it different in Hindu society? And, I wonder, and this is what concerns Old Badger and I, will it be different in Baha'i society?

Personally, I think secular society is in a better position to make the rules. I'll use the mods here as an example, a microcosm. They are a mixture, and operate from a non-religious unbiased POV. They get there because previous mods see them as reasonable people, and don't really consider their religion that much, although there is a consensus to keep a balance.

Secular society has done so much for human rights, like in LGBQT for example.

Talk of any Baha'i society is moot, in my view, if you really look at its actual impact. But if that somehow changed, I'd be concerned, just as you and OB are.

Edited to add (a more balanced article on the state of affairs in India) ... India was never a theocratic state and can never be one: ICCR president

 

[Vinayaka]

From an article written by an ex-Baha'i...

Baha’is often describe their system of elected governing bodies as being more democratic than those prevalent in the wider society, since voters may choose any member in good standing. However, the election practices outlined by Shoghi Effendi prohibit campaigning of any kind, and assembly decisions are presented as unified without recording dissenting votes, so that it is impossible to know which policies any individual candidate supports. With so little information as a basis for decision, a Baha’i votes primarily on reputation and name recognition rather than on any particular issue or agenda. This, of course, gives incumbents a tremendous advantage, and suggestions have been made that current office-holders deliberately control who becomes visible enough within the community to become elected on the national level.[12] The ban on campaigning also inhibits any formation of reform movements from the grassroots. Even though they are elected bodies, Baha’i institutions are not considered to be accountable to the electorate, but only to God.
​

When I was with the Baha'is in the 70's, my friends would go to a convention and cast their votes for people to represent them. These people would vote for the people to serve on the NSA of the United States. Lots of the same people got elected to the NSA and also to be representatives. But, that's not to say it ain't better than the BS happening in our elections here in the U.S.

Hidden but glorified patronage appointments?

 

[Quagmire]

Self-contradictory statement. You mean like Abrahamic religions? To question is blasphemy!

Even if what you say here weren't a cartoonist generalization, not seeing how what I said was " self-contradictory".

 

[CG Didymus]

The latter, probably. I honestly don't feel doctrine religions are the victims. There is a history of religion abuse that it's like complaining that someone is hitting you without acknowledging you hit them first.

Who decides the ground rules?

I like this from Ann Wilson Shaef

"When a rainbow gets constricted, it becomes one color—white"

How do you do so with someone else's criteria that we are told to agree in "in order to" live in peace?

-

Think of it like RF. Keeping seperate DIRs is a good idea. It gives people freedom to share among their peers with jargon and interest that outsiders may not understand.

It's good we have interfaith so people different Faith's can converse.

The problem is saying we relate to each other insofar we can be in another DIR. As long as we respect others beliefs, we're fine.

I feel it's better to stay interfaith. We're not treading in each other's territory, claiming each other's rights to be in DIR room, but honestly at peace conversing.

Common area rather than common ground.

Good to hear from you again. Does your religious group allow updating on what they believe? And, since with Unitarian Universalists it would seem like there would be some similar beliefs as the Baha'i Faith, are there any Baha'is or former Baha'is in the group?

 

[Quagmire]

I can go along with that, but why would fewer people question it if there was only one religion, because it would be more obviously the truth?

Or it would seem so to most people.

 

[Trailblazer]

Trailblazer said: I can go along with that, but why would fewer people question it if there was only one religion, because it would be more obviously the truth?

Or it would seem so to most people.

What would be wrong with everyone knowing that one religion is the truth?

 

[CG Didymus]

Hidden but glorified patronage appointments?

I've mentioned it a few times. There was a definite difference between the more conservative/administrative oriented Baha'is and the ones I hung out with, the liberal minded Baha'is. Unfortunately, being liberal means not getting all hung up with doctrines and rules. They were able to get together with a wide variety of people and get along with them and not judge them. Maybe, Loverofhumanity is more like them and can, honestly, hang out with people in other religions and not judge them and not try to convert them.

 

[Vinayaka]

I've mentioned it a few times. There was a definite difference between the more conservative/administrative oriented Baha'is and the ones I hung out with, the liberal minded Baha'is. Unfortunately, being liberal means not getting all hung up with doctrines and rules. They were able to get together with a wide variety of people and get along with them and not judge them. Maybe, Loverofhumanity is more like them and can, honestly, hang out with people in other religions and not judge them and not try to convert them.

Who knows, eh?

 

[Quagmire]

What would be wrong with everyone knowing that one religion is the truth?

There's a big difference between actually knowing something and just accepting what you're told.

 

[Harel13]

I will believe instead that we have been shown a way toward the truth, but not directly into the place from which it emanates, because the 'math' of it gets too thick for humans to tolerate. This is the 'light' of god, that no man can stand

'Toward' is a good way to say it, too. I would say, though, that the way does in fact lead directly into the light, but mankind can't tolerate the light on the "highest setting", so to speak. Every person stops somewhere along the way.

Religion I think, is where each society takes its last stand in the ascent of the holy mountain, pitching tents against the inexplicable wind of truth

I think kernels of truth can be found in different religions (can't vouch for them all...), but in the end, I think, there's only path that isn't littered with falsehoods that can make people stray from the truth.

It's not my goal to question anyone's religion if they are really working on it, because that is good

Unless most of it isn't good...perhaps even doing more harm than good.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Good to hear from you again. Does your religious group allow updating on what they believe? And, since with Unitarian Universalists it would seem like there would be some similar beliefs as the Baha'i Faith, are there any Baha'is or former Baha'is in the group?

Thank you.

Somewhat. It is eclectic but it depends on the church. Some are more Christian oriented so they'd see everyone having different expressions of reality while others are more secular. In the "parish" I go to it's more secular.

The main differences between Baha'i and Unitarian is god, prophets, and "one sun" of different rays. Many people don't believe in God but they come to serve together- pantries, activisms, etc. The other is prophets. The Christian foundation historically the Unitarian and Universalist (before they joint) looked at Jesus as a teacher not a prophet, manifestation, or god.

I would have to visit a Baha'i church to get a feel. It's more like the SGI group I was in rather than UU. SGI has a central mystical theme, all pray to that same theme, and their charity and practice welcome all people who agree to the same theme regardless the interpretation of it.

But, yeah. I can see some external similarities but god, prophets, rays, and missing. I know some of our church members spoke up about misappropriation of some of the religions we teach in our workshops. I think it's becoming political and trying to be inclusive to all minorities.

Another thing about it is we can say things we disagree with with our theology, things that help, don't help. Every religious person I talked with Hindu, Baha'i, Christian, etc say they have all they need and don't need anything else (example, Baha'i learn from wiccans and Satanist).

So, yeah. I see where you getting at.

 

[Dawnofhope]

And what have we done with religions that had those types of beliefs? We've gotten rid of them. And they aren't all that ancient. The Aztecs were just a few hundred years ago. And, I don't know, but animal sacrifices to gods might still be going on. And then there's religions that use hallucinogenic drugs and cast spells and curses on people and I'm sure some form of "Temple" prostitution still goes on. No, not all religious practices are positive. And again, Baha'i support getting rid of superstitious beliefs don't they?

I live in a country (New Zealand) where 16% of our population identify as indigenous Maori. Before New Zealand was colonised by the British over 200 years ago our land was inhabited by many different tribes of Maori. We need to be well informed and wise in our approach with anyone who holds different world views to our own.

And some blow up Abortion Clinics and murder the doctors that work there. Plus, they promote what Baha'is would call "divisive" beliefs. You okay with that? Or, should those beliefs be done away with and beliefs that promote peace and unity between all religions be adopted instead?

Most Christians I know are law abiding and would never think to commit acts of violence and destruction. Fundamentalist Christians often do have many black and white, your wrong and we’re right beliefs. Fighting fire with fire is often unproductive and worse than doing nothing. Baha’is should build positive relationships and maintain constructive dialogue but strictly avoid conflict and contention.

Have Baha'is shown love, acceptance, and true friendship with people from the other religions here on the forum? It don't look like it. Loverofhumanity and you have made the best efforts at trying to show some respect and courtesy with people from other religions. But, please don't pretend that Baha'is have got it right. They don't.

Baha’is are human just like everyone else. We should try to live by the high standards set by the Founder of our Faith, Bahá’u’lláh. How often we fall painfully short.

 

[Trailblazer]

There's a big difference between actually knowing something and just accepting what you're told.

That is true, but how do you think we can know if a religion is true?

 

[Quagmire]

That is true, but how do you think we can know if a religion is true?

Maybe we can't. Maybe it's something each individual has to work out for themselves.

 

[Trailblazer]

Maybe we can't. Maybe it's something each individual has to work out for themselves.

I fully agree. That is what I keep telling people who seem to think it is my job to convince them my religion is true.

 

[Bird123]

I agree that God is unknowable and that we can learn so much from each other as I don’t believe any of us holds the complete truth.

i really like this quote from Rumi which says it all.....the different religions are the pieces

The truth was a mirror in the hands of God. It fell, and broke into pieces. Everybody took a piece of it, and they looked at it and thought they had the truth.”

― Mawlana Jalal-al-Din Rumi

God is not as unknowable as you might think.

 

[Aupmanyav]

'Cause these kids don't seem to want too many moral rules.'

'OK, Boomer'.

Jesus said that there are only Two Commandments that we are to follow. All other teachings must reflect them as elaborations and/or applications in that day and age in eretz Israel.

What Jesus said has no relevance for us. There have been many like him claiming various things without any evidence..

 

[TransmutingSoul]

God is not as unknowable as you might think.

What we can know, is not God, but all that the Messengers are.

Regards Tony