Why should diversity of religion exist?

[Jim]

Liberty to pursue our own desires is also part of dominating thought in this age, is that what life is all about?

“What’s it all about, Alfie? ...”

 

[Deeje]

So who’s the failure, Mr. Snotty?

You can’t “prove” that God exist at all. What kind of rummy response have you provided?

Are these the responses of someone who has run out of excuses, I wonder? Proud of these, are you....?

It never was. It was only an abomination to ancient Near East people.

Homosexual acts are against nature. They serve no purpose but to satisfy sexual desires. Sex has a more noble purpose than mere pleasure. It is primarily for reproduction...doesn't nature teach us this? Unless the female is in estrous, male advances are rejected. Very few species on this planet have sex for fun. But we are not animals and we alone have a sense of morality and laws governing our sexual behavior, which were given to us by the one who created us.

Those laws were not cultural unless you think God only gave them for Israel's benefit....? Did not Jesus abide by those same laws and teach his disciples to respect them? Was Jesus a different religion to his Jewish countrymen? Or did he just institute a new covenant that included Gentiles in order to fulfill his covenant with Abraham? (All nations would be blessed by the promised seed.) God's laws applied even to Gentiles who converted to Judaism. When did God rescind them?

What you suggest dehumanizes people. God would never wish for that.

Sorry, but that is a pathetic emotionally based justification. What dehumanizes people is their unnatural sexual activity, driven by lust and a sadly abnormal genetic inheritance.....it is the sexual 'activity' between those people that God described as an "abomination". They can't help their 'attraction', but they can control where it takes them if they have the right motivation. i.e. love for God that is greater than love for self.

God made what and whom God made. And God loves every single one, just as they are.

This is nonsense! God did not make any of us who we are. We are the product of our gene pool. God had nothing to do with who or what we become, individually. He created the reproductive system and left us to do as he commanded...to "fill the earth". Who and what we are is a product of our genes, our environment. and our own self determination.

God did not make people gay and then condemn them for it. He gave fallen humanity laws to govern their aberrant behaviors that would surface as a result of sin. He gave us the means to control our sad inheritance from Adam, but at the same time, he gave us hope that he would eliminate all sin and wickedness from the world when the rulership of his kingdom began. (very soon now we hope) But it is up to us to implement the means that he gave us, and to prove that we are worthy of what he is offering only to the righteous. What do you think it means to be "righteous"?

 

[sojourner]

Are these the responses of someone who has run out of excuses, I wonder? Proud of these, are you....?

No these are the responses of someone who is tired of inane and shallow/narrow posts that are blatantly snotty in nature.

Homosexual acts are against nature

It has been scientifically proven that they’re not “against nature.” Medical science has determined that a homosexual orientation is a normal and healthy aspect of humanity.

They serve no purpose but to satisfy sexual desires

Isn’t that enough? Isn’t the expression of love/desire for whom one loves enough? It is for hetero couples who, for whatever reason cannot — or have decided not — to have children.

It is primarily for reproduction

But as you said in another post, not entirely.

But we are not animals and we alone have a sense of morality and laws governing our sexual behavior, which were given to us by the one who created us.

which is why we advocate for monogamous, loving, consensual, and committed relationships.

Those laws were not cultural unless you think God only gave them for Israel's benefit....?

Well... yes God did! Jewish law is not binding on any but Jews.

Did not Jesus abide by those same laws and teach his disciples to respect them

Yes. Jesus was a Jew.

Sorry, but that is a pathetic emotionally based justification

No, it’s what The System does to minorities; dehumanizes them by intimating that they’re “defective” somehow, and not authorized to take part in normal activities that others are authorized to take part in. It’s called “systemic violence.” It was done to Blacks in 18th and 19th century America. It was done to Jews in Germany in the 20th century. It was done to indigenous people of Maryland’s throughout history. It was done to Christians by the Romans. It’s even been done to women. Currently, it’s being done to brown people in america.

What dehumanizes people is their unnatural sexual activity, driven by lust and a sadly abnormal genetic inheritance.....it is the sexual 'activity' between those people that God described as an "abomination

Loving, consensual, committed sexual relationships are not “unnatural.” Your assessment that these relationships are ‘lust-driven” is false in many, many cases. Homosexuality has been medically shown to be normal. I have no idea where you’re getting your information, but it’s woefully skewed and dangerously bigoted.

This is nonsense! God did not make any of us who we are

Of course God did. The Psalms tell us that God formed us in our mothers’ wombs.

God did not make people gay and then condemn them for it.

Quite correct. God made some people gay, and you’re condemning them for it, on behalf of a God who did not elicit your help.

 

[Deeje]

No these are the responses of someone who is tired of inane and shallow/narrow posts that are blatantly snotty in nature.


It has been scientifically proven that they’re not “against nature.” Medical science has determined that a homosexual orientation is a normal and healthy aspect of humanity.


Isn’t that enough? Isn’t the expression of love/desire for whom one loves enough? It is for hetero couples who, for whatever reason cannot — or have decided not — to have children.


But as you said in another post, not entirely.

which is why we advocate for monogamous, loving, consensual, and committed relationships.


Well... yes God did! Jewish law is not binding on any but Jews.

Yes. Jesus was a Jew.

No, it’s what The System does to minorities; dehumanizes them by intimating that they’re “defective” somehow, and not authorized to take part in normal activities that others are authorized to take part in. It’s called “systemic violence.” It was done to Blacks in 18th and 19th century America. It was done to Jews in Germany in the 20th century. It was done to indigenous people of Maryland’s throughout history. It was done to Christians by the Romans. It’s even been done to women. Currently, it’s being done to brown people in america.


Loving, consensual, committed sexual relationships are not “unnatural.” Your assessment that these relationships are ‘lust-driven” is false in many, many cases. Homosexuality has been medically shown to be normal. I have no idea where you’re getting your information, but it’s woefully skewed and dangerously bigoted.


Of course God did. The Psalms tell us that God formed us in our mothers’ wombs.


Quite correct. God made some people gay, and you’re condemning them for it, on behalf of a God who did not elicit your help.

Give your excuses to God and see if he accepts them....I am not your judge.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Some religions have a bad record for being sexually very repressive. Baha'is, compared to modern society, have some pretty strict beliefs. Like if a person never gets married should they never ever have sex? Even with themselves? If that is so, then I think there will be a lot of people breaking those laws.

I can only offer, that it is a journey of self. We get to choose how much we become part of this world and how much we see that this life is aimed at spiritual growth. A lot of us have not done well with the laws given by God, God knows it will be a struggle and will give us all we need to develop as spiritual beings, all we have to do is ask.

I can tell you that sex can become the least of the concern, when we seek as to what love is all about. I am sure with good education and the right nature and nurture, it will be put into the place where it belongs. Yes not many will choose to see it that way, but sometimes life shows you what are the best choices and maybe a lot are now seeing that way? My life has showed me, that I needed to understand this many years ago, much pain may have been avoided.

All the best CG, keep asking the questions, always let your heart balance the answers and ask God for wisdom with the right balance.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

“What’s it all about, Alfie? ...”

Most like a good example of the path not to walk , but a path many of us will most likely walk, in one attachment or another!

Regards Tony

 

[Jim]

LOL...That is probably because if someone had suggested such a thing they would have been put to death on the spot.
You forget God's Law conveniently.

Leviticus 18:22...Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
"Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind, because it is an abomination."
What is an abomination? What do "married" people do? What do SS married people do?


If following the Laws of God in the Bible makes one "counterproductive, judgmental, and bigoted", then apparently you are not reading them correctly....I don't think his laws need an interpreter...

Romans 1:24-27 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
"24 Wherefore God gave them up to the desires of their heart, unto uncleanness, to dishonour their own bodies among themselves.

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie; and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26 For this cause God delivered them up to shameful affections. For their women have changed the natural use into that use which is against nature.

27 And, in like manner, the men also, leaving the natural use of the women, have burned in their lusts one towards another, men with men working that which is filthy, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was due to their error."

If you have some reasons to think that those passages were intended to prohibit sexual practices that God forgot to mention in Leviticus 18, I hope that you will post them in this thread:
Additions to the prohibitions in Leviticus 18?

Being gay is not the real problem.....its the action, not the attraction.

Agreed.

 

[sojourner]

Give your excuses to God and see if he accepts them....I am not your judge.

God and I are juuuust fine.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I think Jesus, if we trust what was written about him, said that the Good Samaritan was the true "neighbor". That would fit in exactly with what you guys are saying. Help people in need with no religious conversion strings attached. But that's not what usually happens. A soup kitchen or a missionary to a far off country might feed the people or build a school or a clinic, but then the people will have to listen to a talk about being saved and turning to Jesus. I really don't think the Christian is going to help those people and keep quiet. You guys seem to be saying that you do keep quiet.


In the old days when I was with the Christians, they told stories of people that went into the bad parts of town and "witnessed" to the gangs. They were not there to accept them for how they were. They were there to share Jesus and get them to turn away from that lifestyle.

And, I heard similar stories from Baha'is. How a Baha'i went into a remote village and told the people about the Baha'i Faith and the whole tribe became Baha'is. So some preaching, or "teaching", about Baha'u'llah must have taken place in a similar way that Christians "share" Jesus with the people.

But that's not what is happening here. Baha'is respond to a thread or start a thread. Their responses give the hair splitting perspective from the Baha'i pov. And the others give their reasons supporting their beliefs and why the Baha'i answer is wrong or has some issues.

That's why I've said a few times that the Baha'is should be the peacemakers in these arguments and not adding fuel to the controversial fire. And, that's gotta be hard... especially for some Baha'is here that seem to thrive on arguing. Naturally, they see as "supporting" and "defending" the Baha'i Faith. But, in doing so, they have pushed people away, rather than drawing them in and being the cause of unity. So keep doing what you're doing. You are definitely on, what I think, is the right path.

We do get over enthusiastic often and fail to understand that our job is to spread love and unity and it’s for others should they choose to independently investigate our faith or not.

That’s how I joined when I decided and it was always my call. Baha’is only showed me love and friendship and didn’t try to convert me and that bothered me a lot.

I remember my first encounter on hearing the name Baha’i. At the time I lived with my parents on the ground floor of some units. Above us there lived a couple one Malaysian man and the other an Australian lady. My parents liked them a lot as they were always respectful and cheerful. One day I stopped the Malaysian guy on the stairs after he greeted me and I said ‘ I know you’re not Christian because you’ve never tried to preach to me but you have something about you, what is your religion’? Then my adventure began and after about 3 years I joined. They radiated so much love and respect I had to know what was behind it. This is how it should be because the purpose and intention is not to recruit members but to create a loving, friendly, happy and peaceful world.

Love and respect are most important. Winning the argument is unimportant and only feeds the ego. So it’s more important I believe to treat others with courtesy and respect than win and argument causing them upset and anger. But have I done this always? No, I have often fallen into the blackest of pits of trying to ‘win the argument’ ending up insulting others so keeping vigilant of my egos desires is a full time job which I don’t always subdue and later deeply regret. We are no better than anyone here and have a lot to Kearney from you all but our immaturity often gets in the way of making good friends. We just have to keep trying to better ourselves.

As Buddha said so wisely...

A man may conquer ten times ten thousand men in battle but he is the true conquerer who conquers his own self - Dhamapadda (the thousands)

 

[loverofhumanity]

Is it still an "abomination" to God? Should gays still be put to death by stoning? Historically, how did Christians handle it? Kill a few? Have the demon of gayness exorcised from them? Shun them? Let them continue amongst them but in secret? To where no one knew they were gay? And, if you believe the Baha'i message, then God still forbids gay people of having sex and getting married. Maybe they won't be killed. But can they truly live their lives out in the open, and do the things they do... have gay pride parades, have gay bars and have gay bath houses... or will they be pushed back in the closet?

Since even the Baha'i have a very conservative (strict) moral code with regards to sex, like don't do it, even with yourself, until you are married to someone of the opposite sex. And then, I'm sure they are expected to get too kinky. But, I'm also sure kinkiness and gayness will continue. So how do Baha'is and Conservative Christians accept that kind of behavior?

We must love all people and there are no exceptions. People’s personal lives are between them and God. Yes laws are there but it’s not for us as individuals to judge others as we have our own shortcomings to work on.

 

[Deeje]

God and I are juuuust fine.

If you say so.....I'll let him confirm that.

 

[Deeje]

We must love all people and there are no exceptions. People’s personal lives are between them and God. Yes laws are there but it’s not for us as individuals to judge others as we have our own shortcomings to work on.

This is very true. We must be reasonable and friendly in our approach to people, regardless of their lifestyle or appearance. Judging their lifestyle and appearance can be deceiving because people don't wear their heart condition on their sleeve. We have had former underworld figures and Biker gang members leave their past ways behind and start a new life with the truth of God's word as the motivating force behind the change. Only God knows the heart. His spirit can work miracles.

As Christians, we have an obligation to warn of God's intentions towards this earth. The fact that he has standards and that we need to live up to them....and that there are serious consequences for failing to listen.....and the fact that what seems out of control, is actually all prophesied to take place.

If someone's life is at stake, we owe them the truth. If they take it on board and change their ways, then that is a life saved, but if they reject what we say, then we don't hate them for it, but are sorry that they don't see the merit in it. Since God is the one who chooses us as much as we choose him, (John 6:44; 65) its their response to his message, being preached in all the earth, that saves people. (Matthew 24:14)
This is what we perceive the Bible's message to be. The good news is only "good" for those who obey it. (2 Thessalonians 1:7-8)

 

[Spartan]

My grandson - who his father claims is a Christian - bragged on social media that he and his wife went into a Buddhist fertility shrine and prayed for a baby. I asked the little toad who he prayed to - Jesus, the Father, or the deceased, portly, decomposed Buddha? He never answered. Pathetic. That generation needs a lot of work before they take over.

Closet Christian: Someone who hopes to go to heaven but is too spiritually-challenged to tell others about Jesus Christ.

 

[metis]

In this area of religion, those who say they know are usually the ones who least seemingly understand the complexities of actually trying to know. IOW, intelligence also involves realizing what we can't know.

 

[Deeje]

My grandson - who his father claims is a Christian - bragged on social media that he and his wife went into a Buddhist fertility shrine and prayed for a baby. I asked the little toad who he prayed to - Jesus, the Father, or the deceased, portly, decomposed Buddha? He never answered. Pathetic. That generation needs a lot of work before they take over.

Closet Christian: Someone who hopes to go to heaven but is too spiritually-challenged to tell others about Jesus Christ.

I agree...the world at large has dispensed with the true God and made him into something like themselves....accepting what they accept, and changing his mind on morals and materialism.

The reason why they don't tell others about Jesus Christ is because they do not really know him...they know a little about him but they fail to recognize that he taught us to love his Father, to worship his Father and to obey him. Being 'spiritually challenged' is not exactly their fault though. Christendom set up an empire where the clergy were the only ones privy to understanding the scriptures.....that one had to attend a seminary or theological college to learn about God, earn their degree and then they would know it all for those in their charge. As long as he knew it all and spouted off a bit in a sermon every Sunday, no one was really interested in learning much about something that needed a college degree....unless they were going to join the clergy.

But Jesus' apostles were not educated men at all. In fact the Pharisees derided them for their lack of religious education. The reason why Jesus did not select the 12 from the educated ones was because he saw that the education they received was distorted, twisted to elevate the Religious Leaders, rather than to uphold God's Law. Their version of the Law had the people enslaved to a multitude of ridiculous nit-picking rituals that they had added, but that buried the spirit of the Law as Jesus said.

Today, there is no excuse......the knowledge is no longer available just in seminaries and theological colleges.....it is free to all who wish to learn. That is why I believe that we are at present, in a judgment period.

The apostle Paul said of our day.....
"But you who suffer tribulation will be given relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels 8 in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance on those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. 9 These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength". (2 Thessalonians 1:7-9)

So only two kinds of people will perish at the judgment, according to Paul.....those who don't know God, because they don't want to....and those who do know him, but don't obey him. How many people fit that description I wonder....?