Why Quran's surrahs are not in order of Revelations?

[InvestigateTruth]

Quran was revealed gradually over the course of 23 years. Therefore there are earlier surrahs and the later Surrahs. But the Qur'an as a Book, is not ordered as per time of Revelations. What is the reason for this? Shouldn't it be ordered in chronological order?

I mean, if God was dictating a Book to Muhammad gradually so that it is collected as a Book, then why some of the things Allah said sooner is placed later, and vice versa? Was this as per Allah's Will?

 

[England my lionheart]

Quran was revealed gradually over the course of 23 years. Therefore there are earlier surrahs and the later Surrahs. But the Qur'an as a Book, is not ordered as per time of Revelations. What is the reason for this? Shouldn't it be ordered in chronological order?

I mean, if God was dictating a Book to Muhammad gradually so that it is collected as a Book, then why some of the things Allah said sooner is placed later, and vice versa? Was this as per Allah's Will?

It is said by some that the Quran is two books,Meccan and Medinian,I’m no scholar but the tone is different one to the other imo.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

It is said by some that the Quran is two books,Meccan and Medinian,I’m no scholar but the tone is different one to the other imo.

Yes, some Surrahs were revealed in Mecca and some in Medina. But still, they are not ordered in Chronological order. They are mixed.

The Qurestion is, Was this how Allah ordered it to be put together?

 

[England my lionheart]

Yes, some Surrahs were revealed in Mecca and some in Medina. But still, they are not ordered in two separate sections. They are mixed.

Not chronically,between Mecca and Medina/Yathrib a lot had changed,why during that time,imo the Quran wouldn’t make sense chronologically and maybe why Uthman standardised it.

 

[stevecanuck]

Quran was revealed gradually over the course of 23 years. Therefore there are earlier surrahs and the later Surrahs. But the Qur'an as a Book, is not ordered as per time of Revelations. What is the reason for this? Shouldn't it be ordered in chronological order?

I mean, if God was dictating a Book to Muhammad gradually so that it is collected as a Book, then why some of the things Allah said sooner is placed later, and vice versa? Was this as per Allah's Will?

IMO, the compilers knew that the first 86 surahs (Meccan) were so mind-numbingly boring, repetitious and unoriginal, that they wanted to skip them and get to the 'good stuff' ASAP (such as, "fighting is prescribed for you"). Also, the Meccan surahs were little more than rehashed OT stories, so there was nothing much new in them to make people think that Islam offered anything significantly different from Judaism. Moses, Adam, Noah, Lot - all your OT hero's stories told over and over and then once more.

It wasn't until Mohamed got to Mecca that Islam started to be something different, so they decided to lead with that.

All of this is my own cynical opinion.

 

[stevecanuck]

Not chronically,between Mecca and Medina/Yathrib a lot had changed,why during that time,imo the Quran wouldn’t make sense chronologically and maybe why Uthman standardised it.

Actually, if you combine a chronological reading with a history of what happened between 610 and 632, it shows the transformation of Islam from a rehash of the OT into a warrior religion.

 

[England my lionheart]

Actually, if you combine a chronological reading with a history of what happened between 610 and 632, it shows the transformation of Islam from a rehash of the OT into a warrior religion.

Exactly,the Meccan surahs were quite peaceful but the Medina/Yathrib were aggressive,robbing caravans and executions of Jews and the first mention of Jihad,the lesser jihad of the sword and greater Jihad of the spirit would impact us all even today,Hassan Al Banna “jihad of the heart" was more important than "jihad of the sword” was a mistake.

 

[stevecanuck]

Exactly,the Meccan surahs were quite peaceful but the Medina/Yathrib were aggressive,robbing caravans and executions of Jews and the first mention of Jihad,the lesser jihad of the sword and greater Jihad of the spirit would impact us all even today,Hassan Al Banna “jihad of the heart" was more important than "jihad of the sword” was a mistake.

The only quibble I have with your assessment is that the Meccan surahs weren't 'peaceful' as such. When they weren't retelling an OT story, they were just an endless series of commands to adopt Islam or burn forever.

 

[England my lionheart]

The only quibble I have with your assessment is that the Meccan surahs weren't 'peaceful' as such. When they weren't retelling an OT story, they were just an endless series of commands to adopt Islam or burn forever.

That’s the theme throughout,the old carrot and stick trick,the promise of paradise and the stick to force you there or burn repeatedly.

 

[England my lionheart]

Taking Medina was a necessity,an empire needs money and land to grow,raiding caravans in the forbidden months,war booty,slaves and goods and execution of all your enemies in one fell swoop,it all makes sense imo.

 

[stevecanuck]

That’s the theme throughout,the old carrot and stick trick, the promise of paradise and the stick to force you there or burn repeatedly.

Another thing I noticed when I read the Qur'an in chronological order was the introduction of sex in heaven. The first few mentions of heaven said nothing of "maidens with big lustrous eyes", but after a while, and (IMO) to spike interest, it's like God said, "Hey, wait a minute. Did I forget to tell about the chicks? My bad. Yes, there will be unlimited sex for you as long as you die in battle".

Or maybe, just maybe, Mohamed wasn't getting the traction he wanted out of describing a boring Heaven in which you just get to lounge around in comfort for eternity, so he decided to rebrand it as a brothel.

 

[England my lionheart]

Another thing I noticed when I read the Qur'an in chronological order was the introduction of sex in heaven. The first few mentions of heaven said nothing of "maidens with big lustrous eyes", but after a while, and (IMO) to spike interest, it's like God said, "Hey, wait a minute. Did I forget to tell about the chicks? My bad. Yes, there will be unlimited sex for you as long as you die in battle".

Or maybe, just maybe, Mohamed wasn't getting the traction he wanted out of describing a boring Heaven in which you just get to lounge around in comfort for eternity, so he decided to rebrand it as a brothel.

I think there’s differing understanding of this and I haven’t delved into that as it’s not historical but i shall look.

 

[KWED]

Quran was revealed gradually over the course of 23 years. Therefore there are earlier surrahs and the later Surrahs. But the Qur'an as a Book, is not ordered as per time of Revelations. What is the reason for this? Shouldn't it be ordered in chronological order?

I mean, if God was dictating a Book to Muhammad gradually so that it is collected as a Book, then why some of the things Allah said sooner is placed later, and vice versa? Was this as per Allah's Will?

This is an important point. Even Muslim scholars accept that the Quran was "revealed" in response to events and circumstances - which seems entirely odd given that it is god's final and perfect message for all mankind. By definition, every verse of the Quran had already been constructed long before Muhammad was alive, so why does it look live it was made up by Muhammad as he went along?

Another interesting point is that if you read the Quran in chronological order, you can see a district transition from the more peaceful, conciliatory Meccan verses (where Muhammad had no power and relied on the tolerance of the Quraysh establishment) to the later Medinan verses which became more belligerent and expansionist as he gained political and military power. In that context, it reads exactly as if it was written by the person experiencing those events.

 

[KWED]

The first few mentions of heaven said nothing of "maidens with big lustrous eyes",
so he decided to rebrand it as a brothel.

The descriptions of the Houri in the sunnah are beyond bizarre. 90 foot tall sex drones with transparent skin and no bodily functions.
Does peyote grow in the Arabian desert?

 

[Link]

When it was revealed, each verse was revealed in a circumstance. Yet when place in a position in Quran as it was dynamically built, it made sense, and flowed well and a majestic way.

This was a sign it was from God to believers. Because they seem so particular, yet each verse took a position in the Quran with respect to other verses.

The Quran despite being revealed literally all over the place, comes, to a majestic way. And also some Madina Surahs have Meccan Verses and Some Meccan Surahs were later added Medina verses.

And this how dynamic the Quran was, and part of the wisdom, is that the miracle of Mahdi aside from physical miracles he will perform, will be, how he shows the Quran was build over time in circumstances with the Sunnah. This itself is a miracle that compliments the Quran, and the book of Ali (a) contains all that.

 

[KWED]

Yet when place in a position in Quran as it was dynamically built, it made sense, and flowed well and a majestic way.

Sorry, no it doesn't. It is dull, repetitive and disjointed.
It reads exactly as if it was written by unsophisticated thinkers influenced by existing Near Eastern superstition and mythology.
It is no coincidence that only Muslims think it is some incredible, miraculous literary work. No one else does. Confirmation bias 101.

 

[Link]

Sorry, no it doesn't. It is dull, repetitive and disjointed.
It reads exactly as if it was written by unsophisticated thinkers influenced by existing Near Eastern superstition and mythology.
It is no coincidence that only Muslims think it is some incredible, miraculous literary work. No one else does. Confirmation bias 101.

Maybe it does to you, because your vision is not trained to see it, and like I repeat, it maybe you are overwhelmed with sorcery and unable to see the majestic flow.

 

[stevecanuck]

This is an important point. Even Muslim scholars accept that the Quran was "revealed" in response to events and circumstances - which seems entirely odd given that it is god's final and perfect message for all mankind. By definition, every verse of the Quran had already been constructed long before Muhammad was alive, so why does it look live it was made up by Muhammad as he went along?

Another interesting point is that if you read the Quran in chronological order, you can see a district transition from the more peaceful, conciliatory Meccan verses (where Muhammad had no power and relied on the tolerance of the Quraysh establishment) to the later Medinan verses which became more belligerent and expansionist as he gained political and military power. In that context, it reads exactly as if it was written by the person experiencing those events.

The fact that several verses explicitly refer to current events (Hunain for example) proves that the Qur'an wasn't teed up and ready to go. The ad hoc nature of it is the bleedin' obvious.

 

[stevecanuck]

Maybe it does to you, because your vision is not trained to see it, and like I repeat, it maybe you are overwhelmed with sorcery and unable to see the majestic flow.

This is a serious question - since you believe in such things, how can you be sure that it is not YOU who is overwhelmed with sorcery?

 

[KWED]

Maybe it does to you, because your vision is not trained to see it, and like I repeat, it maybe you are overwhelmed with sorcery and unable to see the majestic flow.

It may seem majestic and magical to you, but that is only because you are not trained to recognise the derivative tropes of ancient superstition and mythology. And I repeat, maybe you are overwhelmed by confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance.