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Featured Why Quran rejects crucifixion of Christ by the Jews?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by InvestigateTruth, Jan 23, 2020.

  1. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
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    But he didn't create all of it. The fires of hate were already burning.

    The point is, you can't just separate all of the blame (of Jesus's death) and rest it squarely on the shoulders of the Jews. The Romans were at least equally to blame, if not more.
     
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  2. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    By all accounts the Jews liked Jesus and gathered to hear him speak.. so its unrealistic to blame all Jews (or the Romans) for what the Pharisees and the Sanhedren did. They despised the Jews from Israel anyway.
     
  3. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
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    By NT accounts. Are there other accounts besides?

    And who despised the Jews?
     
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  4. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    Israel and Judea despised each other. Judea considered the Jews in the north to be Hellenized half breeds.. and they were more prosperous than Judea.
     
  5. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
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    Proof?
     
  6. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    Read Israel Finkelstein.
     
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  7. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
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    So, no sources you can bring immediately? No writings from that era? On what does Finkelstein base his claims?
     
  8. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    He's a world renown archaeologist.
     
  9. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
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    And? What are his sources? I'm not going to just accept your claim about something that's very important to Jewish-Christian relations just because you're name-throwing.
     
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  10. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    Why would it be important to Jewish-Christian relations.
     
  11. Shad

    Shad Veteran Member

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    Toss in the previous rebellion more or less established to Rome that it's various Jewish cronies had no power nor influence over the masses thus the idea of semi-autonomy was a farce
     
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  12. Shad

    Shad Veteran Member

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  13. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    Why don't you study.. This isn't fast food.
     
  14. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    I just watched the video.

    The claim that required proof is below:

    ( link )

    I didn't hear proof of that in the video that you provided. Did I miss it?
     
  15. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    The Quran does not say what exactly happened to Jesus.
     
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  16. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Hezekiah is one. Ha Shamar is another. There were many. I dont know if someone made a list of them in a website, but Josephus mentions some of them in the antiquities of the Jews.
     
  17. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Politicians and historians may deliberately promote prejudice for political or nationalistic ends. Hitler was a prime example.
    A former member of the Hitler Youth movement, was quoted as saying: “Nazi propaganda first taught us to hate the Jews, then the Russians, then all the ‘enemies of the Reich.’ As a teenager, I believed what I was told. Later on, I learned that I had been deceived.”
    As in Nazi Germany and elsewhere, racial or ethnic prejudice has been justified by appeals to nationalism, another source of hatred. We see it in other nations in just the same way. Nationalism seems to spawn the idea of "my country right or wrong".....propaganda works when the other guy is always the bad guy.

    Jesus would not have been arrested unless the Jewish leaders had brought charges against him. Jesus clearly showed them that their charges were groundless, but like their forefathers, they were not open to correction because they didn't think Jesus could be the Messiah. He did not fit their profile and he was always castigating them over their hypocrisy and lack of mercy in dealing with God's people....they were too full of their own importance.

    Their Messiah was expected to be a strong political leader who was going to liberate Israel from the yoke of Rome and re-establish the Jewish nation, and elevate them in his kingdom. It didn't play out as they assumed even though Jesus fulfilled all the prophesies written about him. His liberation was a spiritual one and it didn't include those whom John the Baptist called "offspring of vipers"....bound for gehenna.

    The Jews were expecting the Messiah in 29 CE according to Daniel's prophesy, but Jesus is the only Messiah who appeared. Despite his lineage, his miracles and his masterful teaching, the majority of Jews were persuaded to reject him. The Jewish leaders of the day bear responsibility for his murder....the Romans only hammered in the nails.
     
  18. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Where in the Quran does it "but only reject the idea of dying for others sin"?
     
  19. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
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    This is the type of answer that puts any debate/discussion on hold. "Well, off I go to read who knows how many books by this archeologist with the possibility of finding out that everything he says may just be a wild theory, and then going off to read who knows how many books by other archeologists with opposite positions and then figuring it out for myself." :rolleyes: edit: Not mocking, just saying that if there's some concrete, definitive evidence, I'm sure it could be presented here. A pottery shard, a scroll scrap, something, you know?
    If I've been following correctly, you claim that Judean Jews totally hated Galileen Jews and therefore it makes sense that Jews hated Jesus and therefore, they really are at fault for killing him.
    Which brings up another question: If Jesus was really originally from Beth Lehem, and he was from the family of the royal Davidic bloodline, why was he supposedly hated as a Galileen Jew? He wasn't really a Galileen. He just happened to be from Nazareth...
     
    #79 Harel13, Jan 25, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2020
  20. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
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    Right... Sure he did...
    Right...now the only problem is how the NT retroactively changed things in the OT to make everything line up. o_O
    No, of course. The Romans were total puppets of the Jews. Next you'll tell me the Jews exiled themselves of their own free will...
     
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