Why Prostitution Should be Legal

[PureX]

Are you saying that holding a job is consenting to a non-sexual physical assault? I must have misread that.

You're trying to legitimize prostitution by calling it just another "job", and I'm not going to waste any more time on this nonsense.

 

[Cooky]

Shallow mentalities want hookers. Intellectuals want real love.

 

[PureX]

Please explain how making her a criminal and punishing her if she charges for sex protects her as an innocent victim in the transaction. Society makes her a victim and then punishes her to make up for it?

Perhaps we should be punishing those who purchase her, and not her, as someone here proposed earlier in the thread.

 

[PureX]

Shallow mentalities want hookers. Intellectuals want real love.

"Shallow" in this case equals selfish and inhumane. And I don't believe our society, or any society, should be encouraging that in the name of "freedom". Prostitution is in no way an expression of "freedom".

 

[PureX]

I am not yet on board with the legalization of prostitution. I am stuck between arguments from either side at this time. However, reading through this thread, I have seen some posts that seem to indicate that women are victims and in need of protection. I do not think this is true. They can be. So can men. But are they the eternal, perpetual victim in prostitution? Does seeing them that way do a disservice to them as independent, intelligent people capable of making up their own minds and carrying out their own wishes? Is the rush to protect a perceived vulnerable group, really just piling on more of a stereotype?

The primary purpose of law in a civilized society is to protect it's citizens from each other, and hopefully to do so equitably. This isn't about who is the victim, it's about victimization in general. If a woman wants to offer the use of her body for someone else's sexual pleasure she can do so at any time. If she requires money to do so, then the whole idea of "consent" gets poisoned, and at best it becomes coerced consent. Which becomes a very slippery slope when it comes to the justification of abuse. Purchasing another human being's body for one's own sexual gratification requires monetary coercion because it is an otherwise unacceptable proposition. And that's how it becomes a form of humiliation when it happens, and becomes psychologically damaging, and dehumanizing for all involved.

And that's why I think civil societies should employ their laws to prevent legitimizing it.

 

[joe1776]

All I mean is that the political battle is always uphill for the progressives while the conservatives always have the advantage. They are in the fort, the way that things are being done now. They don't have to change anything to have their way.

Okay, that's a reasonable statement.

 

[joe1776]

Perhaps we should be punishing those who purchase her, and not her, as someone here proposed earlier in the thread.

Ah, so you're tacitly admitting that your justification for making the prostitute a criminal was mistaken.

We'll work on getting you to agree that we should leave the John alone also in another thread.

 

[PureX]

Ah, so you're tacitly admitting that your justification for making the prostitute a criminal was mistaken.

We'll work on getting you to agree that we should leave the John alone also in another thread.

You're having a very hard time staying focused, here, aren't you.

If we make selling opiates without a prescription illegal, then people selling opiates without a prescription will be considered "criminals". They may want to sell opiates without prescriptions. They may LIKE selling them that way. They may even believe it is their right as free citizens to do so. But if the society in which they live determine that selling opiates without a prescription presents a danger to the social order, and to the individual citizens, then doing so will be breaking the society's laws, and the perpetrators will be labeled "criminals".

We all know this. There is no logical reason for you to keep repeating it as if it somehow means something more than it does.

How we as a society respond to such criminal behavior is a whole different discussion. And not one we're going to have on this thread.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Your are refusing to recognize that using someone else's body for one's own sexual pleasure is the subject at hand. I believe the same reasoning that applies to making child sexual prostitution illegal should be applied to adult sexual prostitution. That is that the 'consent' is illegitimate in both instances. And so far, I 've seen no reasonable argument against this from you or others.

Why is the consent illegitimate for adults? You make this claim but can't seem to support it.

"Informed consent" is a very vague and slippery criteria, though, isn't it. What exactly does one have to be informed about for their consent to be legitimate? In the case of children, it's generally considered that children cannot appreciate the psychologically damaging effects to themselves that would likely result from their engaging in sexual activity. And yet I think a very good argument could be made that the same is true of the vast majority of prostitutes, and their patrons. Because the truth is that using another human's body for one's own sexual pleasure is insulting and degrading to the person who's body is being used, and thereby harms them psychologically whether they have been successfully coerced into 'consenting' to it, or not. Just as the repetition of such an act by the perpetrators tends to 'dehumanize' them, psychologically.

It can be, but no answer is perfect. It is why one can date and have sex with an 18 year old when 40 but 15 will get you twenty.It is not perfect but it recognizes a reality of life. Kids under a certain age cannot make responsible decisions for themselves. We tend to set that at eighteen.

Our modern human societies are already rife with subjugation, humiliation, and all manner of abuse in the name of selfishness and greed, and at the moment this seems to be getting worse, not better. So I do not believe that legalizing the buying and selling of human bodies for the purpose of sexual gratification is the way we should be going. Just the opposite, in fact. I think we need to be searching, as a people, for ways to increase mutual human appreciation and respect, and decrease our individual selfishness and greed.
By you. But I think you have a very narrow and naive view of it that you are struggling to maintain, here. And it's the wrong view.

The current laws are far worse than the "crime" that they are there to end. Tell me, why can't a women, who is an adult, or a man for that matter, not get money for the use of his or her body? We already do that through employment in some jobs that are very humiliating. What makes prostitution different?

 

[PureX]

Why is the consent illegitimate for adults?

... no answer is perfect. It is why one can date and have sex with an 18 year old when 40 but 15 will get you twenty. It is not perfect but it recognizes a reality of life. Kids under a certain age cannot make responsible decisions for themselves.

A lot of adults can't make responsible decisions for themselves, either. Partly because their options are all bad, or their brains (psyche) have been damaged, or both. If we're willing to protect the kids from themselves, why not our fellow adults?

Tell me, why can't a women, who is an adult, or a man for that matter, not get money for the use of his or her body?

... as a sex toy. You left that part out. They can, but it's degrading and humiliating in nearly every culture on Earth. The 'why' isn't really debatable. It's just considered an ultimate act of subjugation.

We already do that through employment in some jobs that are very humiliating. What makes prostitution different?

Your point does not legitimize humiliation and dehumanization for profit, it just de-legitimizes those other supposed 'jobs'. And I don't think there are any other jobs that are quite as humiliating and dehumanizing as prostituting oneself.

 

[Cooky]

Ah, so you're tacitly admitting that your justification for making the prostitute a criminal was mistaken.

We'll work on getting you to agree that we should leave the John alone also in another thread.

I think John should be locked up... we need societal standards. Rules. Laws.

...Unless one wants anarchy.

 

[Cooky]

The current laws are far worse than the "crime" that they are there to end. Tell me, why can't a women, who is an adult, or a man for that matter, not get money for the use of his or her body? We already do that through employment in some jobs that are very humiliating. What makes prostitution different?

We all need to assimilate to a code of conduct that the majority agree upon. The only exception, IMO, is drugs, where the addicted are thr afflicted... Addicts are the victims not the crime.

But you can't be addicted to hookers.

 

[Subduction Zone]

A lot of adults can't make responsible decisions for themselves, either. Partly because their options are all bad, or their brains (psyche) have been damaged, or both. If we're willing to protect the kids from themselves, why not our fellow adults?
... as a sex toy. You left that part out. They can, but it's degrading and humiliating in nearly every culture on Earth. The 'why' isn't really debatable. It's just considered an ultimate act of subjugation.
Your point does not legitimize humiliation and dehumanization for profit, it just de-legitimizes those other supposed 'jobs'. And I don't think there are any other jobs that are quite as humiliating and dehumanizing as prostituting oneself.

Yes, I said that age of consent is not perfect. It is the best that we have right now.
And so what if it is being used as a sex toy? This indicates an unhealthy feeling about sex on your part. Many women enjoy sex and enjoy the money that they make from it. I have not seen anything of substance from you on this, only appeals to emotion.

 

[Subduction Zone]

We all need to assimilate to a code of conduct that the majority agree upon. The only exception, IMO, is drugs, where the addicted are thr afflicted... Addicts are the victims not the crime.

But you can't be addicted to hookers.

Laws are usually based upon that. But they need to be based upon rational thought. Prostitution as a crime appears to be based upon irrational beliefs.

 

[joe1776]

You're having a very hard time staying focused, here, aren't you.

You're the one who had to duck out of one position into another, not me. I wasn't the one making a criminal of someone I labeled an innocent victim.

If we make selling opiates without a prescription illegal, then people selling opiates without a prescription will be considered "criminals". They may want to sell opiates without prescriptions. They may LIKE selling them that way. They may even believe it is their right as free citizens to do so. But if the society in which they live determine that selling opiates without a prescription presents a danger to the social order, and to the individual citizens, then doing so will be breaking the society's laws, and the perpetrators will be labeled "criminals".

This is a false analogy because selling opiates without prescription involves likely harm to innocent victims. Prostitution does not.

 

[joe1776]

I think John should be locked up... we need societal standards. Rules. Laws.

...Unless one wants anarchy.

Our laws when just are based on our moral intuition (conscience) which requires that intentional harm must be done to an innocent victim. Is John intentionally harming an innocent victim by having consensual sex with a prostitute? Of course not. Therefore, the law is unjust.

If you think it's wrong to have sex with a prostitute, don't do it. But their transaction is really none of your business.

 

[PureX]

Yes, I said that age of consent is not perfect. It is the best that we have right now.

No, it's not. That's the point. We need to consider the issue more fully, and deeply, and when we do, I think we will conclude that legalized prostitution is not a socially desirable proposition.

And "so what" is not an argument. Sorry.

 

[Subduction Zone]

No, it's not. That's the point. We need to consider the issue more fully, and deeply, and when we do, I think we will conclude that legalized prostitution is not a socially desirable proposition.

And "so what" is not an argument. Sorry.

Your objections to prostitution have been very weak so far. Nothing that justifies the current laws. Perhaps you can come up with something stronger than emotional arguments.

 

[joe1776]

We all need to assimilate to a code of conduct that the majority agree upon....

Until a few hundred years ago, the majority of most nations once agreed that slavery was an acceptable practice. So, you see, at any given time, the laws of a society might include those that are immoral and unjust. The laws making prostitution a criminal offense is an example of an unjust law which needs to be abandoned just as we abandoned legal slavery and other unjust laws..

 

[Subduction Zone]

Until a few hundred years ago, the majority of most nations once agreed that slavery was an acceptable practice. So, you see, at any given time, the laws of a society might include those that are immoral and unjust. The laws making prostitution a criminal offense is an example of an unjust law which needs to be abandoned just as we abandoned legal slavery and other unjust laws..

Or, and I am just floating this out there, we could combine the two and allow personally owned sex slaves again. It should be no problem getting the religious on board since it does appear to be a Bible approved concept.