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Featured Why Praise God When He's The One Who Brought Coronavirus To Us?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by SeekingAllTruth, Feb 20, 2021.

  1. Fallen Prophet

    Fallen Prophet Well-Known Member

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    This is a "perfect example" of you only quoting a part of a verse in order to rob it of context and drive your false narrative. Again.

    Both of the accounts in Matthew and Mark record the people claiming that Jesus did "mighty works",

    "And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands?" (Mark 6:2) (Bold and italics added)

    "And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, Whence hath this man this wisdom, and these mighty works?" (Matthew 13:54) (Bold and italics added)

    IF YOU TOOK THE TIME TO READ THE ENTIRETY OF BOTH VERSES YOU'D SEE THAT YOU LACKED CONTEXT.

    "And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them." (Mark 6:5)

    "And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief." (Matthew 13:58)

    Both the accounts of Matthew and Mark record the people claiming that Jesus did "mighty works" among them.

    The account of Mark also claimed that Jesus did heal the sick there - but it did not consider this "work" to be "mighty" - suggesting that there are "mightier" works than healing the sick.

    The account of Matthew claims that the reason that Jesus did not perform many "mighty works" was due to the unbelief of the people.

    These accounts are consistent with one another. You just lack context. Which was your intent.
     
    #121 Fallen Prophet, Feb 21, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2021
  2. Fallen Prophet

    Fallen Prophet Well-Known Member

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    Claiming that having the proper context is nothing more than an excuse is saying that context doesn't matter.
     
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  3. SeekingAllTruth

    SeekingAllTruth Well-Known Member

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    God saying, "This is great stuff" is just a Jewish scribe writing out their own personal Jewish version of creation, which has been done in other creation stories countless times in other civilizations where worship of gods is common. The Jews painted El (remember he hadn't been transformed into Yahweh yet--he was still polytheistic) as being very pleased with his creation. The Jewish writers, I imagine dreamed of the world as a paradise. In actuality when you look at the environment early man was growing in it was hostile, ugly and filled with all sorts of dangerous creepy crawlers like snakes, centipedes, Black Widow spiders, stinging insects, and parasites that shortened life dramatically It's a wonder we survived. Nothing good about it at all.
     
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  4. SeekingAllTruth

    SeekingAllTruth Well-Known Member

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    There we go with the context thing again. I've said all I'm going to say about context.
     
  5. Fallen Prophet

    Fallen Prophet Well-Known Member

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    Which is, "Don't quote the entire verse so no one will know what the Bible actually records."

    Am I right?
     
  6. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    If people reading the post want to know what the context is all they have to do is click on the verse and then click View in Context.
    I am up against the same thing when I quite certain verses, as I cannot post the whole chapter when I am quoting verses from several chapters. Nobody wants to read all that and it makes the post too long so many people will just pass it by.
     
  7. 1213

    1213 Well-Known Member

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    I believe it was developed by Canadian/American scientists as a bio weapon, sent to China and released by China intentionally. That is why I wouldn’t blame God for it. Also, by what I know, there are working medicines for it, which is why I don’t think it is a problem.

    “Doctors cure 6,000 patients with Covid-19 with Ivermectin”
    Doctors cure 6,000 patients with Covid-19 with Ivermectin

    But, obviously, God has allowed this all. I think it is because people wanted to know evil that we are on this “Matrix” to learn what good and evil really means. Luckily this is only a short lesson and nothing of this can destroy our soul and those who are righteous, can have eternal life with God after this. I thank God of this lesson, all though it can be painful.

    I have had the virus and I think western governments are much more painful than it, with their totalitarian and fascistic ways to handle this issue.
     
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  8. SeekingAllTruth

    SeekingAllTruth Well-Known Member

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    Let me clarify for Fallen about context by way of your post, Trailblazer if that's okay--because I don't want to get into it again with him--or her. Context IS important--vital even--WHEN it is used properly to clarify something ambiguous. My problem with Fallen, like most apologists like him, is they use "context" as a way to wiggle around having to acknowledge contradictions and errors in the Bible.

    "Error? No there's no error between Judges 1:19 and Jeremiah 32:27. You have to read in context. Sometimes God is all powerful but there are times when lack of faith causes God to not want flex all His muscles. So there's no contradiction."

    Or whatever cockamamie excuse Fallen might use to defend the obvious contradiction between the two verses. Let's look at them:

    19 And the Lord was with Judah; and he drove out the inhabitants of the mountain; but he could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron. Judges 1:19

    27 “I am the Lord, the God of all mankind. Is anything too hard for me? Jeremiah 32:27

    Well, obviously yes there is, God. Chariots made of iron seem to blunt your omnipotent powers because that's why Joshua couldn't overcome the inhabitants of the valley even though you, God was with him and empowering him. Why? Because their chariots were made out of iron, not...I don't know--wood...and God seems to have a problem with iron.

    Now Fallen is going to scream, "CONTEXT! CONTEXT! CONNNNNNNTEXT!"

    What does Fallen want me to do--read the entire Bible to cherry pick verses that support his contention God is omnipotent always? I don't have to read the entire Bible to know that God has a problem with chariots made of iron. It says so right there in black and white.

    Now lets look at Mark and Matthew. Fallen screams, "He did mighty works in other cities. Why don't you take that into context when you say Jesus couldn't do miracles in Mark 6:5."

    What in the heck does it matter what Jesus could do in other towns????? Point is in that particular town he COULDN'T do miracles. That means Jesus' powers are not omnipotent--sometime they work and sometimes they don't. That's the point. But Fallen is dishonestly, IMHO trying to use context as an excuse to cover over the fact that on one occasion Jesus could NOT perform miracles.

    This is why I say I won't discuss context with him and other apologists--because they only use it to try to paper over obvious errors.
     
    #128 SeekingAllTruth, Feb 21, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2021
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  9. SeekingAllTruth

    SeekingAllTruth Well-Known Member

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    Sorry to hear you had it. Are you a long hauler?
     
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  10. Fallen Prophet

    Fallen Prophet Well-Known Member

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    You have got to be kidding. He isn't posting whole chapters. He is quoting only parts of single verse and intentionally leaving the parts that establish the context out.

    What is going on here? Are you his conjoined twin or something? Why defend his absurdity?
     
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  11. MJ Bailey

    MJ Bailey Member

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    In reply to the OP, all things living were given a choice to do what it is they feel they should do. If covid was created by mankind in a lab (though not yet proven), how is this God's fault? That kind of reminds me of people who think because Jesus of Nazareth died for their sins they can do what ever they want and be forgiven for it. Well hate to let ya in on a little secret, you were given the chance to repent, which does not necessarily mean you will be forgiven. Isn't it about time people start taking accountability for their own actions instead of always wasting time trying to find someone else to blame?
     
  12. SeekingAllTruth

    SeekingAllTruth Well-Known Member

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    Some of us, actually quite a number of us don't buy into all this "Repent of your sins and believe on Jesus for the forgiveness of your sins" falderol. I don't think I have anything to repent for. I help people when I can. That's the universal law, isn't it? Beyond that, there's no such thing as sin. There is only what's morally reprehensible and what isn't and that's up to the individual except when it breaks the law.
     
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  13. halbhh

    halbhh The wonder and awe of "all things".

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    One would praise God for many reasons, such as because they are saved into eternal life after this temporary body ends.

    The isolated verse is easier understood in context though. Even then I'd suggest the excellent and accurate NIV translation to aid:
    7I form the light and create darkness,
    I bring prosperity and create disaster;
    I, the Lord, do all these things.

    As you see in context in the chapter and in Isaiah as a whole, God was at that time rewarding and punishing righteousness and wickedness in real time, during this mortal life, and including on the national level also.
     
    #133 halbhh, Feb 21, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2021
  14. SeekingAllTruth

    SeekingAllTruth Well-Known Member

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    Trailblazer, I am sorry I had to rate Fallen's post "Funny". S/he actually says some pretty hilarious things when s/he's red-faced with anger and frustration, but that last one was a gem, though it comes at your expense, I fear. I apologize for Fallen's extremely rude behavior since s/he won't. Conjoined twins. That takes the cake. That takes the entire bakery, come to think of it.
    [​IMG]
     
  15. Fallen Prophet

    Fallen Prophet Well-Known Member

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    I'll start with what we were already talking about then move on to your new stuff.
    The verses both you and I quoted in Matthew 13 and Mark 6 were two accounts of the same events that happened at the same time in the same town.

    I will again quote from these chapters,

    "And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, Whence hath this man this wisdom, and these mighty works?" (Matthew 13:54)

    "And he went out from thence, and came into his own country; and his disciples follow him." (Mark 6:1)

    These chapters are both talking about the same event that happened at the same time in the same town. These didn't happen in "other towns" - but rather His home town.

    And you dishonestly quoted only the first part of Mark 6:5 to try and make it seem like Jesus could not perform miracles - but if you quote the verse in its entirety (as I already did) you get,

    "And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them." (Mark 6:5)

    Last I checked - healing the sick by touching them constitutes a miracle. He performed miracles.

    You cut off the record literally mid-sentence to push your false narrative.

    You are being dishonest about the Biblical record.
    I'm not arguing that the Bible is perfect or anything. I'm only arguing that you are wrong in regards to everything you and I have been talking about in this thread.

    I'm using context to point out your dishonesty and ignorance.
    The "he" in Judges 1:19 is a reference to the people - or tribe - of Judah - not God.

    If you had read the entire chapter you would have seen that all the different tribes and groups of people were often referred to as "he".

    The whole "Lord was with Judah" thing was in reference to the conquests that the tribe of Judah had already undertaken,

    "And Judah went with Simeon his brother, and they slew the Canaanites that inhabited Zephath, and utterly destroyed it. And the name of the city was called Hormah.

    Also Judah took Gaza with the coast thereof, and Askelon with the coast thereof, and Ekron with the coast thereof.

    And the Lord was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron." (Judges 1:17-19)

    If anyone give you the whole "context" argument in the future - they are just trying to be nice - because what they are actually saying is you don't know what you are talking about.
     
  16. SeekingAllTruth

    SeekingAllTruth Well-Known Member

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    Then why didn't Mark just write, "The only mighty works he did was to lay hands on a few of the sick" or something similar. The way it's written read, "Jesus could do no mighty works but he could do mighty works." That ridiculous.

    As to Judges, I say BALONEY! on your excuse-making. The verse read the Lord was with Judah, but Judah couldn't overcome the chariots of iron. I'm not going to go past that with a lot of excuse-making and this business of "But look at that verse in Leviticus and those in Proverbs and these three in Ruth, Coronicles and Isaiah that proves you're wrong." I'm not going to chase all over a 1500 page book to look for stuff you think justifies your obvious bias toward an obviously flawed text. Heck with that! 'Nuff said.
     
  17. Fallen Prophet

    Fallen Prophet Well-Known Member

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    It's not rude to ask why someone would defend obvious dishonesty.
     
  18. Fallen Prophet

    Fallen Prophet Well-Known Member

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    Mark obviously didn't consider healing to be that mighty of a work - and comparatively - he was right. (What with the whole raising the dead and junk)

    You may not like how Mark phrased it - but the truth is he said that Jesus performed miracles there - despite your false claims.

    You quoted only the first part of the verse and intentionally left out the part that proved you wrong.
    This is funny because earlier you said that God was the one who couldn't overcome chariots of iron - and since I have corrected you you have come to realize that the "he" was a reference to Judah and not God (or Joshua - like you said above. Pfft! That guy was dead by that point.)

    So it's good that you are learning.:)

    Look - the Lord is with me all the time and there are loads of things I can't do - because the Lord being with someone doesn't mean they have magical powers.

    It could simply mean that the Lord approves of what the tribe of Judah was doing or that they Holy Spirit strove with them.

    You like to interpret the Lord being with the tribe of Judah as them being granted some kind of supernatural powers - but that's just your interpretation.

    So you keep making your own false interpretations of the Bible - without proper context - and then discrediting them - which just makes you look bad.

    I'll stick around and keep laughing at you.

    Oh and btw - all of my "proper context" suggestions have been coming from the same chapter (and in some cases the same verse) as what you quoted from - so don't try to accuse me of telling you to jump to all kinds of different books.

    Because the only one who has been jumping from book to book to try and prove their case has been you.

    We started with that verse about light and darkness - then went to Mark and Matthew - then Judges and Jeremiah.

    You have been the one jumping from one to the next after I prove you wrong at every turn.

    It's funny.
     
  19. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    Not so. The earth holds us, nourishes us, cradles us. It provides for us. Creation is a wondrous place, full of beauty. In the end, it depends on our point of view. If you want to look at creation as a hostile place and humanity as ugly, it will inevitably keep you from loving fully. That’s your prerogative, I suppose. Early humanity not only survived, but thrived. That’s the reality. The dream — or nightmare — is that that thriving is a mistake of some sort. I can’t be a fatalist.
     
  20. MJ Bailey

    MJ Bailey Member

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    I appreciate that thought concept:)
     
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