Why leftist revisionism is garbage, and even leftists should be against it.

[Mindmaster]

I've always felt that the quality of a person is reflected in the sum total of their actions, not merely one vice or disagreeable position. Tucker brings up exactly my point, in that we cannot place our views into the context of the past and end up with a valid equation. I ran into this video, and it really good at expressing the problem with the revisionism philosophy. Please view, and discuss.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1870088473255525

 

[Sha'irullah]

I think the issue comes down to political climate to some extent but mostly neo-marxism seeping in. You see a need for society to be inclusive to all people now a days and America is trying to do it to every society possible which is profoundly moronic because you will always have conflict. You see it in religious pluralism, racial diversity and cultural diversity. Some cultures are very backwarded to the West and some religions promote values that are completely immoral to other societies.

To paint the world white is simply to ignore our own human history and remove our capability to get along. I can befriend my enemy and I do this on a regular basis, not only that but I have the most enduring friendships with people I do not agree with. My love for people is very profound and to some extent erotic but that is a whole other story . You must empathize and understand other people as human beings and value their right to life. Bit you cannot compromise by destroying your safety and livelihood for others because of others failings. This is why I become so worried about people and their intolerance now, especially in the left.

You never hear of right-wingers like me complaining about what lefties do because it does not concern me, I have never made a thread filled with vitriol complaining about Obama and his goofs. I gave him the decency of being somebody voted in by the populous and lived with it, I had no need to attack him for everything he did.

Love is something that comes through learning, not professing that you are right in every situation. As I have said many times before, I have no problems calling out idiocy where I see it. I even have strong disagreements with Tucker Carlson on many issues I should add.

 

[Father Heathen]

Oh, geez. Seriously? What's being "revised", exactly? Their place in history isn't being erased, only their undue commemoration. History should always be remembered, but not everything deserves to be honored.

Besides, whatever happened to "losers shouldn't get trophies just for participating"?

 

[idav]

Oh, geez. Seriously? What's being "revised", exactly? Their place in history isn't being erased, only their undue commemoration. History should always be remembered, but not everything deserves to be honored.

Besides, whatever happened to "losers shouldn't get trophies just for participating"?

That's what happens as people attempt to whitewash our history.

 

[sun rise]

"Thomas Jefferson indisputably was a great man"

Blah. Ideology.

Demanding the end of a memorial of Jefferson as some American hero is not the erasure of him from history. It's the acknowledgement that he wasn't the hero nationalists claim he is.

"If these men were really just racist villains, than the society they created is no better than they were"

I mean, that is compatible with a class based, materialist outlook. The presidents of the United States have always been suppressing the struggle of the labourers beneath them. America was hardly democratic under these "indisputably great" men.

It's weird that in modern times we never have any agreement over who was and wasn't a good person or leader, but we are expected to believe that slave owners who were reactionary for their time to be good without dispute.

There's no reason to continue to romanticise historical figures in the name of tradition alone.

To attack a figure in the past using the standards of today is to make a mistake. And to attack a figure for lack of perfection is to compound the mistake.

I'm a card carrying member of the left but this goes too far. Thomas Jefferson was indeed a great man by the standards of his time. His actions and writings helped lay the foundation of America and set in place a process which eventually will make America a truly great nation.

We can and should honor him while at the same time understand that he was not perfect and had many flaws. A well-balanced understanding of the ethics of the time, his accomplishments and shortcomings is ideal.

 

[Notanumber]

I wonder if he is being attacked because he stood up to Islam.

https://www.youngcons.com/obama-can-learn-a-lot-from-thomas-jeffersons-response-to-muslims-in-1801/

 

[Laika]

I've always felt that the quality of a person is reflected in the sum total of their actions, not merely one vice or disagreeable position. Tucker brings up exactly my point, in that we cannot place our views into the context of the past and end up with a valid equation. I ran into this video, and it really good at expressing the problem with the revisionism philosophy. Please view, and discuss.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1870088473255525

*facepalm*

Dude. you have absolutely no idea what the *** you're saying do you?

The left have the legacy of Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot to deal with. we already know how to "judge the quality of a person" based on "the sum total of their actions" and not placing "our views in the context of the past". Go home to the safety of moral absolutism before you start enjoying the lust for power and watching other people suffer. someone could get hurt.

Leave the lying and hypocrisy to the left. we are a lot better at this than you ever will be. we think dialectically and can handle believing absolute nonsense pretty easily. just look at gender studies. we're just using guilt and humiliation to make you turn into us and bring you over to the dark side. don't fall for it. You don't want to take that line of reasoning to its logical conclusion. Here's Jordan Peterson to explain why all this abstract nonsense from the left is ********. you can't beat the left by making the same mistakes:

moral relativism is just might is right in disguise. you can't compete with the leftist lust for power and ability to rationalise moral corruption. the marquis de sade was a socialist. we literally invented sadism. runaway whilst you still can like every decent, rational sane human being.

Spoiler: If however you really want to continue down this path...

Welcome to Hell. Our socialist utopia is nearly complete. All we have to do is just kill one more person until we make it absolutely perfect.

I think I can just about handle the nightmares now.

 

[blü 2]

I agree. Requiring 18th century people to conform to one group's view of 21st cent. political correctness is absurd.

Besides, even today slave-owning's four-square solid with the bible. Pages and pages on how to do it correctly, who and how you can take sexual advantage of, who you can sell and buy, and so on ─ the pious man's manual.

(Did you ever read Why Can't I Own a Canadian?)

 

[Augustus]

I've always felt that the quality of a person is reflected in the sum total of their actions, not merely one vice or disagreeable position.

As regards historical figures, it doesn't even necessarily equate to the sum total of their actions. Someone could be respected as a historical figure simply for one aspect of their life, if this was something of great significance.

Someone like Winston Churchill, for example, performed such a crucial role at such a crucial time that this can't be taken away from history, even if you consider he did many other objectionable things. No need to treat him hagiographically, but important deeds are not cancelled out as if in an equation.

In general though, retroactively applying contemporary moral standards to past figures is inane. People like to think of themselves as special, and that they would have been part of the tiny minority in the past standing up to institutions like slavery, or sexist and racist attitudes.

By definition though, most people are normal. And in the past normal was represented by the prevailing attitudes of that time which tended to not match modern PC norms.

 

[tytlyf]

Washington and Jefferson weren't traitors who were enemies of the USA.

No one is saying that slave owners are the reason behind the removal of the statue. That's a RW media distraction.

Abraham Lincoln is not next

George Washington is not next

Benjamin Franklin is not next

These are not traitors who fought against America.

BTW, Tucker is reading a teleprompter. The GOP elitists are writing what's on that screen. You shouldn't take anything they say seriously.

Propaganda is powerful, you didn't notice RW media switching the topic? I noticed it immediately. Don't let them get you!

 

[Mindmaster]

Washington and Jefferson weren't traitors who were enemies of the USA.

No one is saying that slave owners are the reason behind the removal of the statue. That's a RW media distraction.

Abraham Lincoln is not next

George Washington is not next

Benjamin Franklin is not next

These are not traitors who fought against America.

BTW, Tucker is reading a teleprompter. The GOP elitists are writing what's on that screen. You shouldn't take anything they say seriously.

Propaganda is powerful, you didn't notice RW media switching the topic? I noticed it immediately. Don't let them get you!

Wait, GOP elitists work at FOX?

How come all of Rupert Murdoch's cash goes to the Democratic Party?

 

[tytlyf]

Wait, GOP elitists work at FOX?

How come all of Rupert Murdoch's cash goes to the Democratic Party?

Yes, Fox is the media arm of the republican establishment elitists. Fox and Rush are the main people working for the elitists.
Their job is to fool people into supporting corporate policies. The reason the republican establishment doesn't listen to their base is because the republican party doesn't care about middle class policies.

Been this way for decades.

 

[Mindmaster]

I wonder if he is being attacked because he stood up to Islam.

https://www.youngcons.com/obama-can-learn-a-lot-from-thomas-jeffersons-response-to-muslims-in-1801/

The only crime you need to do apparently is be a white guy, be from the west, or happened to owned slaves. You can get by with previously owning slaves if you are black, brown, or yellow.

For whatever reason the left has mostly steered away from the O.G. American's though, probably to avoid a violent retaliation from those who consider themselves patriotic. (Some of whom are on the left)

I find it amusing in any case.

 

[tytlyf]

The only crime you need to do apparently is be a white guy, be from the west, or happened to owned slaves. You can get by with previously owning slaves if you are black, brown, or yellow.

For whatever reason the left has mostly steered away from the O.G. American's though, probably to avoid a violent retaliation from those who consider themselves patriotic. (Some of whom are on the left)

I find it amusing in any case.

This has nothing to do about slave ownership. That's a RW propaganda distraction.

 

[idav]

The only crime you need to do apparently is be a white guy, be from the west, or happened to owned slaves.

Not in a Trump America, in trumps America crimes go back to non-white minorities.

 

[Falvlun]

I've always felt that the quality of a person is reflected in the sum total of their actions, not merely one vice or disagreeable position. Tucker brings up exactly my point, in that we cannot place our views into the context of the past and end up with a valid equation. I ran into this video, and it really good at expressing the problem with the revisionism philosophy. Please view, and discuss.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1870088473255525

Leave it to the Right to slide down a slope from "Hey, maybe we should remove statues celebrating a Civil War fought to maintain slavery" to "the Left wants to dismantle American institutions!"

Wasn't Trump the one making the comparison between Lee and Washington? This is a narrative largely being driven by the Right, not the Left.

 

[Falvlun]

What exactly is the Left revising regarding their desire to have statues removed that commemorate men who lead the Confederacy?

 

[Revoltingest]

Leave it to the Right to slide down a slope from "Hey, maybe we should remove statues celebrating a Civil War fought to maintain slavery" to "the Left wants to dismantle American institutions!"

Wasn't Trump the one making the comparison between Lee and Washington? This is a narrative largely being driven by the Right, not the Left.

Well, there is some noise from the left too.....
Thomas Jefferson statue incites debate at Mizzou
Sign the Petition
To some, Jefferson is worse than a mere traitor...he's a slave holding rapist whose statue....
"....sends two signals: the first coding nonverbal element is that the University of Missouri belongs to a specific class structure, those who are great land-holders, wealthy and white. Secondly, it represents the discrimination of immigrant poor and landless whites, maltreatment of the Indigenous American and the dehumanization of black individuals who Jefferson himself viewed as inferior"

Caution:
Don't infer the above to incriminate all on the left.
But also don't ignore such revisionism when it rears its ugly head.

 

[Falvlun]

Well, there is some noise from the left too.....
Thomas Jefferson statue incites debate at Mizzou
Sign the Petition
To some, Jefferson is worse than a mere traitor...he's a slave holding rapist whose statue....
"....sends two signals: the first coding nonverbal element is that the University of Missouri belongs to a specific class structure, those who are great land-holders, wealthy and white. Secondly, it represents the discrimination of immigrant poor and landless whites, maltreatment of the Indigenous American and the dehumanization of black individuals who Jefferson himself viewed as inferior"

Caution:
Don't infer the above to incriminate all on the left.

The petition had garnered only 80 signatures. This hardly can be considered a mainstream position of the Left.

Yes, there have been various calls from students or small factions to remove such n such statue of some great American leader. None besides those targeting statues commemorating Confederate leaders have ever gained traction among the Left as a whole.

But also don't ignore such revisionism when it rears its ugly head.

What exactly is revisitionist about ascknowledging that Jefferson was a slaveholder and probable rapist?

Rather, the whitewashing of history, the belief that our Founding Fathers or other national heroes, were perfectly honorable is the revisionism.

I see no problem with pointing out that these men had their flaws.

The difference between a Jefferson and a Lee is that Jefferson is not being honored for his role in upholding slavery. He is honored for his multiple accomplishments in the development of our nation. Lee, in contrast, is being celebrated precisely for his role in upholding slavery and the attempt to split the Union.

 

[Revoltingest]

The petition had garnered only 80 signatures. This hardly can be considered a mainstream position of the Left.

Yes, I'd already indicated that it's not mainstream.

I see no problem with pointing out that these men had their flaws.

I've called for the same.
I just don't agree with removing statues, which is more the silencing of history.

The difference between a Jefferson and a Lee is that Jefferson is not being honored for his role in upholding slavery. He is honored for his multiple accomplishments in the development of our nation. Lee, in contrast, is being celebrated precisely for his role in upholding slavery and the attempt to split the Union.

I don't disagree.