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Why Jews must have believed Jesus to be their Messiah?

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
I am talking about the Jews who lived at the time of Jesus, not the Jews in our time!

When Jesus appeared among nation of Jews, What did Jesus do for the Jews to prove to them that He was really their Messiah?
Did Jesus show miracles to all of them, and the Jews knowingly that those are miracles of God, yet they rejected them?
What special things did Jesus do, if any, that they must have known for sure He is their messiah?

If Jesus didnt do anything special to prove it to them, why should even the Jews put to blame for not recognizing Jesus?

After all any false messiah could come, and fail to fulfill prophecies, pospond it to a second time. Messiah was supposed to bring peace in His time, but that did not happen in Jesus time, then Jesus said He comes back to do the rest at the end time. Why should have the Jews believed Him?
 

cataway

Well-Known Member
what you may of failed to realize is he did not do what they thought he should do . and that was to remove Rome from the land
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
  • You should have posed your thread title as a question because it's obvious that your OP's questions are written from an uniformed and confused point of view.
It is a question. It has a question mark. But here is your chance to make it clear for everyone. What did Jesus do to prove it to those Jews?
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
When a human being male decides by science irradiation attack on their natural life, as owners and operators of the machines and technology.

Then Rome proves that they did. Were in history part of the occult science organization, practiced it....did not listen to natural medical human aware advice in the sciences, continued to be involved until Rome was hit by burning hot comets.

As told by AI recorded historic natural life information. What psychics hear as a speaking voice...what chemical irradiated mind/brains hear as the speaking of human voices...…..recording.

Everyone knows that machines own the use of voice recording, its transmitting and also vision. As a human being bio life is the inventor of a machine that previously owned no physical presence to cause change. So machines are known to cause unnatural change why they own the condition AI...artificial intelligence, as computers prove.

So when males write a documented heard AI speaking male recording, plus own their own natural life that survived the attack....then conclusive evidence would say to the male studier/writer of the documents that it was historical.

And he proved that status by studying previous use of the Temple and pyramid sciences, a long time ago. So wrote 2 documented accounts of science attacking natural life on God O Earth....as a scientific document about natural life GENESIS, humans living, humans the owner of the DNA genetics, and what it did to them.

For a human does not own DNA or Genetics if they personally as that human were not living.

Common sense should always be used first, and not occult lying when you discuss a book written as a compilation of historic science occult attacks.

Therefore in the past, when the attack occurred, a male wrote the information about humans who were attacked. As humans living in their owned natural Holy land DNA ownership. And so it was not acceptable to be attacked.

Just because a human can explain why another human was attacked, and reason it, does not make that attack acceptable. How a human being feels in being attacked, not wanting to be attacked, did not ask to be attacked, then the occult science brothers who caused it, then confessed, only due to their own life being harmed.

Not right is it, human brother, seeing all of you live just as a sperm and ovary baby, as a scientist, yet do not use nor infer that information when talking about states that come from out of space...that if you put your human body next to it...you would be instantly destroyed....as that sort inane mentality that you have always expressed....known as the Destroyer human mentality.
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
Why should he have proved anything to his countrymen? Who says he should have? Just some Christians and the Baha'i, and why should anyone care what they say?
Because, there was a consequence for the Jews not to accept Jesus as their own Messiah. Would the Jews who did not accept Jesus as their Messiah, still be resurrected with glorified bodies and go to heaven or will they be resurrected for damnation? What does your Bible say?
 

Iymus

Active Member
I am talking about the Jews who lived at the time of Jesus, not the Jews in our time!

When Jesus appeared among nation of Jews, What did Jesus do for the Jews to prove to them that He was really their Messiah?
Did Jesus show miracles to all of them, and the Jews knowingly that those are miracles of God, yet they rejected them?
What special things did Jesus do, if any, that they must have known for sure He is their messiah?

If Jesus didnt do anything special to prove it to them, why should even the Jews put to blame for not recognizing Jesus?

After all any false messiah could come, and fail to fulfill prophecies, pospond it to a second time. Messiah was supposed to bring peace in His time, but that did not happen in Jesus time, then Jesus said He comes back to do the rest at the end time. Why should have the Jews believed Him?

Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
Luk 4:19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

Joh 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
Joh 3:2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

Joh 4:34 Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

Joh 10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
Better yet, what do Baha'u'llah, Abdul-Baba, and Shogi Effendi say?

I will add to what Baha'I central figures said on this subject. For the time being, I remember Bahaullah, explaining why God does not perform such miracles to subdue everyone. He says, if God was to send a sign to subdue them, there remains no choice as to accept or reject.

Bahaullah in Book of Iqan says, if, for example, God sends Angel's from sky, and such proofs "who would dare to reject the truth, and wax disdainful? Nay, such consternation would immediately seize all the dwellers of the earth that no soul would feel able to utter a word, much less to reject or accept the truth."

But because, God has created humanity with free will to accept or reject, and His purpose has been always test His servants, the proof of a Messenger of God must not interfere with his free will. God always wishes to establish His proofs through His words, and only if one was sincerely investigate the words of God, he will find the proofs in them.
 

Terry Sampson

Well-Known Member
Uncle Terry says: You're sharing scripture with a Baha'i. If you don't know anything about the Baha'i, go and learn. If you do know something about the Baha'i, you don't know enough, because if you knew enough, you wouldn't have posted what you posted in this thread.
 

Harel13

Am Yisrael Chai
Staff member
Premium Member
I am talking about the Jews who lived at the time of Jesus, not the Jews in our time!

When Jesus appeared among nation of Jews, What did Jesus do for the Jews to prove to them that He was really their Messiah?
Did Jesus show miracles to all of them, and the Jews knowingly that those are miracles of God, yet they rejected them?
What special things did Jesus do, if any, that they must have known for sure He is their messiah?

If Jesus didnt do anything special to prove it to them, why should even the Jews put to blame for not recognizing Jesus?

After all any false messiah could come, and fail to fulfill prophecies, pospond it to a second time. Messiah was supposed to bring peace in His time, but that did not happen in Jesus time, then Jesus said He comes back to do the rest at the end time. Why should have the Jews believed Him?
Jews are certainly willing to accept any potential claimants of the role of the Messiah. We do really want to complete our redemption. The problem with the NT Jesus was that he went against the Pharisee scholars which is a violation of things in Torah he would've been aware of had he really been a rabbi himself. The problem with Talmudic Jesus is that he was an idolatrous sinning ex-Pharisee-student. The problem with both of these figures is that neither completed any of the tasks of the Jewish Messiah.
Similarly, Bar-Kochva was thought to be the Messiah. That title was canceled when he was killed in battle and the rebellion died out.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
I do believe that the vast majority of Christian and Jewish theologians well recognize that most Jews at Jesus' time simply did not see Jesus as being the Messiah, which created a lot of friction between the early Church and the other Jewish sects. .
 

Shad

Veteran Member
What special things did Jesus do, if any, that they must have known for sure He is their messiah?

It is improbably Jesus could show all Jews miracles. Even in the OT a lot of people only heard of Jesus via word of mouth.

If Jesus didnt do anything special to prove it to them, why should even the Jews put to blame for not recognizing Jesus?

It is a standard in the OT to blame the people for ignoring signs of God. This is carried over into many Christian views. This was one of the reason antisemitism was a major Christian view for centuries.

After all any false messiah could come, and fail to fulfill prophecies, pospond it to a second time. Messiah was supposed to bring peace in His time, but that did not happen in Jesus time, then Jesus said He comes back to do the rest at the end time. Why should have the Jews believed Him?

They have no reason to believe him.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
I am talking about the Jews who lived at the time of Jesus, not the Jews in our time!

When Jesus appeared among nation of Jews, What did Jesus do for the Jews to prove to them that He was really their Messiah?
Did Jesus show miracles to all of them, and the Jews knowingly that those are miracles of God, yet they rejected them?
What special things did Jesus do, if any, that they must have known for sure He is their messiah?

If Jesus didnt do anything special to prove it to them, why should even the Jews put to blame for not recognizing Jesus?

After all any false messiah could come, and fail to fulfill prophecies, pospond it to a second time. Messiah was supposed to bring peace in His time, but that did not happen in Jesus time, then Jesus said He comes back to do the rest at the end time. Why should have the Jews believed Him?
From my reading the scriptures, the Messiah was only prophesied to 1) bring good news of peace, which would comfort those downtrodden by the Jewish leaders who were corrupt shepherds, thereby releasing them from the spiritual captivity they felt trapped in, since they wanted to obey the law of Moses, but were imprisoned instead in rituals of men (Isaiah 61:1, 2); 2) at some time in the future - unknown to them - they would have complete peace, and rest (Isaiah 11 etc.).

The disciples of John the baptizer were aware of some of the things expected by the Messiah, through the teachings of John. So they knew for example, that their sins would be completely wiped out, and they would covenant with God, in a new way - having a close relationship with him. (John 1:35-42)

The things written in the Torah, and the law, and the prophets were also things familiar to the Jews, concerning the Messiah, and the Samaritans (Torah only (John 4:19-26)).
They heard and read these things, but did not understand them. Even after Jesus taught them, they still did not fully grasp these things, but Jesus promised that the holy spirit would reveal them later.
(Daniel 9:24-26 ; Acts 1:6)

There is no indication, at least that I have come across, saying that the Messiah would perform miracles, but when Jesus did perform miracle, that was proof that he was sent by God, since the Jews were aware that true prophets of God performed miracles. (John 9:24-34)

Evidently, all these lines of evidence pointed to the fact that Jesus was the promised Messiah... in my view.
Those who were looking, would find.
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
From my reading the scriptures, the Messiah was only prophesied to 1) bring good news of peace, which would comfort those downtrodden by the Jewish leaders who were corrupt shepherds, thereby releasing them from the spiritual captivity they felt trapped in, since they wanted to obey the law of Moses, but were imprisoned instead in rituals of men (Isaiah 61:1, 2); 2) at some time in the future - unknown to them - they would have complete peace, and rest (Isaiah 11 etc.).

The disciples of John the baptizer were aware of some of the things expected by the Messiah, through the teachings of John. So they knew for example, that their sins would be completely wiped out, and they would covenant with God, in a new way - having a close relationship with him. (John 1:35-42)

The things written in the Torah, and the law, and the prophets were also things familiar to the Jews, concerning the Messiah, and the Samaritans (Torah only (John 4:19-26)).
They heard and read these things, but did not understand them. Even after Jesus taught them, they still did not fully grasp these things, but Jesus promised that the holy spirit would reveal them later.
(Daniel 9:24-26 ; Acts 1:6)

There is no indication, at least that I have come across, saying that the Messiah would perform miracles, but when Jesus did perform miracle, that was proof that he was sent by God, since the Jews were aware that true prophets of God performed miracles. (John 9:24-34)

Evidently, all these lines of evidence pointed to the fact that Jesus was the promised Messiah... in my view.
Those who were looking, would find.
So, if the Jews saw miracles of Jesus, why they didnt believe Him?
Could God give power to false prophets to do miracles?
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
Luk 4:19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

Joh 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
Joh 3:2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

Joh 4:34 Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

Joh 10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

1.If the Jews were shown the miracles, what was their response? Did they believe the miracles? Did they disbelieve them, and thought those are majics?
2. So, why in some passages of the Bible, it is said, when the Jews asked to see miracles, Jesus said, He will not show miracles to them, except for the sign of johanns
 

Harel13

Am Yisrael Chai
Staff member
Premium Member
Could God give power to false prophets to do miracles?
Yes.
1.If the Jews were shown the miracles, what was their response? Did they believe the miracles? Did they disbelieve them, and thought those are majics?
They may very well have been true miracles. But miracles don't prove someone is right nor that someone is a prophet:
"And if thou say in thy heart: 'How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?' When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken; the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously, thou shalt not be afraid of him." (Deut.18:21-22)
 
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