Why Jews Can Eat Pork

[GunsAndMoses]

So I'm a Jew and I eat pork and here's why I will not bring the vengeance of the Lord upon myself: God was the original FDA; the whole point in having Kosher laws apply to specific aspects of daily life, such as diet, was to prevent people from getting sick. Back in those days, there was no way to cook pork at a high enough temperature to kill off all the parasites. Now that we have the means to properly cook the meat, there is no reason that we can't eat it. You have to look at the spirit in which the Lord created these laws. I just get sick and tired of all of these self-righteous rabbis running around telling their communities what they can and can not eat like God is going to give a flying Harah. The only reason that God created these Kosher laws was to protect us from ourselves; now we don't need him to do that. He did not make the pig as another apple in the garden of Eden to tempt us with; the thing is filthy, disgusting, and rolls around in its own fecal matter: there is nothing TEMPTING about it! The fact that we are willing to eat such a disgusting animal with no regard for its cleanliness should be taken as a sign of piety. Every single time I even THINK about this argument I start foaming at the mouth with rage. This is the ultimate example of how STUPID people can be sometimes. The worst part is when I get some bureaucratic-technicality-driven Jewish speaker who is so hell-bent on following every thing about the Torah tooth-and-nail that suddenly STUPID LITTLE THINGS THAT DONT EVEN MATTER become gigantic things while brainwashed Muslims blow up our homeland (not intended to be disrespectful to Muslims; only the brainwashed ones). So the next time you go out to a restaurant and realize that your damned hot-dog may actually have pork in it, don't go running to temple like a little Zayin praying for forgiveness; the Lord has bigger things on his mind then what animal you ate without getting sick.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

So I'm a Jew and I eat pork and here's why I will not bring the vengeance of the Lord upon myself: God was the original FDA; the whole point in having Kosher laws apply to specific aspects of daily life, such as diet, was to prevent people from getting sick. Back in those days, there was no way to cook pork at a high enough temperature to kill off all the parasites. Now that we have the means to properly cook the meat, there is no reason that we can't eat it.

I see some problems with this argument. For one thing, pork isn't really any different from other meats in this regard. If you ate undercooked pork back in the day, you might die of trichinosis; if you ate undercooked chicken back in the day, you might die of salmonella; if you ate undercooked beef, you might die of e. Coli. If God really did have people's food safety in mind, why would he say (effectively), "hey - don't eat this meat that could harm you if you cook it wrong, but all of any of these other meats that could harm you if you cook them wrong... they're fine - eat away."

Also, I think your statement "back in those days, there was no way to cook pork at a high enough temperature to kill off all the parasites" is flat-out wrong. A modern-day stove doesn't get any hotter than a big old-fashioned cooking fire can get.

There are plenty of plausible reasons for why ancient Jews would prohibit pork. The one that makes the most sense to me is this: pigs need pens.

The ancient Jews were (generally) nomadic shepherds. If they were to start raising pigs, then because of the way pigs are raised, they would need to switch to static farming. IOW, pigs are incompatible with a nomadic lifestyle.

 

[Skwim]

I see some problems with this argument. For one thing, pork isn't really any different from other meats in this regard. If you ate undercooked pork back in the day, you might die of trichinosis; if you ate undercooked chicken back in the day, you might die of salmonella; if you ate undercooked beef, you might die of e. Coli. If God really did have people's food safety in mind, why would he say (effectively), "hey - don't eat this meat that could harm you if you cook it wrong, but all of any of these other meats that could harm you if you cook them wrong... they're fine - eat away."

Also, I think your statement "back in those days, there was no way to cook pork at a high enough temperature to kill off all the parasites" is flat-out wrong. A modern-day stove doesn't get any hotter than a big old-fashioned cooking fire can get.

There are plenty of plausible reasons for why ancient Jews would prohibit pork. The one that makes the most sense to me is this: pigs need pens.

The ancient Jews were (generally) nomadic shepherds. If they were to start raising pigs, then because of the way pigs are raised, they would need to switch to static farming. IOW, pigs are incompatible with a nomadic lifestyle.

Could it then be that pigs were the food of the live-in-one-place infidels or whatever, which placed an onus on the meat?

 

[GunsAndMoses]

You can herd a pig just as easily as you can herd a sheep. Just because today we keep them in pens doesn't mean that back in those days they didn't herd a flock of wild boards. Sure, the ancient peoples were nomads, but I hardly think that because they didn't want to settle down a build a farm that God decided to make sure they didn't have to by casting out his vengeance upon those that ate bacon.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Could it then be that pigs were the food of the live-in-one-place infidels or whatever, which placed an onus on the meat?

That could be it, too. IMO, there's a big emphasis on being separate and distinct from other cultures. The prohibition on pork might be as simple as a matter of "the other people do it, so to be different, don't do it."

Edit: if a group of ancient nomads, who considered themselves special and distinct from other people, looked around at the differences between their way of life and the surrounding cultures that lived in cities and on farms, one of the big difference they'd see is that those other people kept pigs while they didn't. I could see how they could make the leap to associate this difference with their perceived special and distinct status.

You can herd a pig just as easily as you can herd a sheep. Just because today we keep them in pens doesn't mean that back in those days they didn't herd a flock of wild boards.

No, you can't. Sheep can graze on grass; pigs can't. If you're nomadic, you'd have to carry pigs' food around with you. OTOH, wherever you go, the sheep will find their food there.

Which brings us to another possible reason for the prohibition: in general, pigs eat the same kinds of food as people. IOW, they're competitors with us for the food supply. In times of scarcity, which is better? Sheep that can eat grass that's inedible to you, or pigs that eat the food you need to live?

Sure, the ancient peoples were nomads, but I hardly think that because they didn't want to settle down a build a farm that God decided to make sure they didn't have to by casting out his vengeance upon those that ate bacon.

Well, I don't think the rules of keeping kosher were created by God at all, so to a certain extent, I'd agree with you. However, I think there's more logical consistency in assuming that God created the rules of keeping kosher in order to ensure that the Jews adhered to a certain lifestyle than in assuming God did it for reasons of food safety that aren't actually true.

 

[GunsAndMoses]

Pigs eat our scraps. They're like little walking garbage disposals. But you've still yet to answer my question; why would it be made into divine law that we can't have pigs simply because we were nomadic? Do you really think that is what God was thinking when he made these laws? Edit: nevermind i thought that third quote of yours was your signiture. still a newbie here

 

[Skwim]

Pigs are omnivores, which means that they consume both plants and animals. In the wild, they are foraging animals, primarily eating leaves, grasses, roots, fruits and flowers. In confinement pigs are fed mostly corn and soybean meal with a mixture of vitamins and minerals added to the diet.
Source:Wikipedia

​

 

[GunsAndMoses]

Right; our scraps

 

[Anonymouse]

Back in those days, there was no way to cook pork at a high enough temperature to kill off all the parasites.

God provided them with an Ark of the Covenant, why couldn't he provide them with a Kenmore Freestanding Gas Range?

 

[GunsAndMoses]

Because then humans would use the propane to blow each other up prematurely. we werent ready

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Pigs eat our scraps. They're like little walking garbage disposals.

Not really. Sure, if you're not careful about using every bit of the food you have, pigs can eat what's left, but if you're efficient with your food supply, there won't be anything left for the pigs.

If a pig can eat it, then if push came to shove, we could probably eat it, too.

But you've still yet to answer my question; why would it be made into divine law that we can't have pigs simply because we were nomadic?

It's not my own view (since I don't believe in any gods at all, and certainly not ones that go around handing down decrees to people), but presumably, the argument would be that God decided on a nomadic life for the ancient Jews. Flowing from this would be the recognition that keeping pigs would interfere with this.

Do you really think that is what God was thinking when he made these laws? Edit: nevermind i thought that third quote of yours was your signiture. still a newbie here

I think it's more plausible than a God who knows that undercooked pork is bad for you, but doesn't realize that undercooked beef or chicken is as well.

 

[GunsAndMoses]

Chicken and beef are far easier to cook properly than is pork. Most beef you could eat essentially raw without likely feeling any effects, and chicken does not need to be cooked at a higher temperature. Regardless, if the reason God intended us to not eat pork is in fact that he wanted us to have a nomadic lifestyle, then we are defying him every moment of our lives simply by existing in one spot. We've broken a far greater law than eating pork; we've completely destroyed the reason we weren't supposed to eat pork in the first place.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Chicken and beef are far easier to cook properly than is pork. Most beef you could eat essentially raw without likely feeling any effects, and chicken does not need to be cooked at a higher temperature.

That's incorrect. Chicken needs to be cooked to higher temperatures than pork.

According to Health Canada, the safe minimum internal temperature for pork is 71 C; the safe minimum internal temperature for chicken is 74 C for pieces or 85 C for whole chickens.

Regardless, if the reason God intended us to not eat pork is in fact that he wanted us to have a nomadic lifestyle, then we are defying him every moment of our lives simply by existing in one spot. We've broken a far greater law than eating pork; we've completely destroyed the reason we weren't supposed to eat pork in the first place.

Yes - or at least the Jews are, anyhow. AFAIK, the prohibition on pork isn't part of the wider Noahide rules.

However, that's only if you assume that these rules came from the decrees of God. I think it's much more likely that they didn't come from God at all, but instead came from a nomadic people. I think it makes perfect sense that they'd consider their own lifestyle to be special.

 

[HiddenDjinn]

Yo, Heston, LTNS.

 

[Ilisrum]

Ham is awesome. Eat away.

 

[Levite]

So I'm a Jew and I eat pork and here's why I will not bring the vengeance of the Lord upon myself: God was the original FDA; the whole point in having Kosher laws apply to specific aspects of daily life, such as diet, was to prevent people from getting sick. Back in those days, there was no way to cook pork at a high enough temperature to kill off all the parasites. Now that we have the means to properly cook the meat, there is no reason that we can't eat it. You have to look at the spirit in which the Lord created these laws. I just get sick and tired of all of these self-righteous rabbis running around telling their communities what they can and can not eat like God is going to give a flying Harah. The only reason that God created these Kosher laws was to protect us from ourselves; now we don't need him to do that. He did not make the pig as another apple in the garden of Eden to tempt us with; the thing is filthy, disgusting, and rolls around in its own fecal matter: there is nothing TEMPTING about it! The fact that we are willing to eat such a disgusting animal with no regard for its cleanliness should be taken as a sign of piety. Every single time I even THINK about this argument I start foaming at the mouth with rage. This is the ultimate example of how STUPID people can be sometimes. The worst part is when I get some bureaucratic-technicality-driven Jewish speaker who is so hell-bent on following every thing about the Torah tooth-and-nail that suddenly STUPID LITTLE THINGS THAT DONT EVEN MATTER become gigantic things while brainwashed Muslims blow up our homeland (not intended to be disrespectful to Muslims; only the brainwashed ones). So the next time you go out to a restaurant and realize that your damned hot-dog may actually have pork in it, don't go running to temple like a little Zayin praying for forgiveness; the Lord has bigger things on his mind then what animal you ate without getting sick.

Um....

I think you may be conflating several issues there. However, just to deal with the pork thing....

Kashrut is what is called in halachah a chok. That is to say, it is a mitzvah for which we simply do not know the justification, if there even is one we are capable of understanding. Many, if not most mitzvot have justifications, either self-evident, or explained by the Rabbis of the Talmud or other authorities. But a few don't, and no one has ever agreed on any. Kashrut is one of those few: it is a mitzvah we are expected to take entirely on faith, which is a rarity in Judaism.

The health explanation was raised by Reform scholars in the 19th Century, who were eager to cast off practices they felt were archaic. However, it has proven to be unlikely to be true. Many cultures in the Ancient Near East ate pigs, and there is no evidence of mass outbreaks of trichinosis or pork-worms, or other such pig-related diseases. Which isn't to say that they were miraculously absent from the Ancient Near East, only that they don't appear to have been any more prevalant than diseases from eating other kinds of animal flesh, including those from kosher animals.

In the end, there simply is no logical explanation for kashrut. It is something to do on faith. If you don't have faith, and don't do it, no one will force you to. And quite possibly, on the scale of things that concern God, it may not be at the top of the list. But it is what it is, and we either accept it and do it, or we reject it and don't do it. The latter is certainly the choice of the Reform movement, and other non-halachic groups in the Jewish world. Conservative and Orthodox Judaism take the former viewpoint.

 

[thebigpicture]

So I'm a Jew and I eat pork and here's why I will not bring the vengeance of the Lord upon myself: God was the original FDA; the whole point in having Kosher laws apply to specific aspects of daily life, such as diet, was to prevent people from getting sick. Back in those days, there was no way to cook pork at a high enough temperature to kill off all the parasites. Now that we have the means to properly cook the meat, there is no reason that we can't eat it. You have to look at the spirit in which the Lord created these laws. I just get sick and tired of all of these self-righteous rabbis running around telling their communities what they can and can not eat like God is going to give a flying Harah. The only reason that God created these Kosher laws was to protect us from ourselves; now we don't need him to do that. He did not make the pig as another apple in the garden of Eden to tempt us with; the thing is filthy, disgusting, and rolls around in its own fecal matter: there is nothing TEMPTING about it! The fact that we are willing to eat such a disgusting animal with no regard for its cleanliness should be taken as a sign of piety. Every single time I even THINK about this argument I start foaming at the mouth with rage. This is the ultimate example of how STUPID people can be sometimes. The worst part is when I get some bureaucratic-technicality-driven Jewish speaker who is so hell-bent on following every thing about the Torah tooth-and-nail that suddenly STUPID LITTLE THINGS THAT DONT EVEN MATTER become gigantic things while brainwashed Muslims blow up our homeland (not intended to be disrespectful to Muslims; only the brainwashed ones). So the next time you go out to a restaurant and realize that your damned hot-dog may actually have pork in it, don't go running to temple like a little Zayin praying for forgiveness; the Lord has bigger things on his mind then what animal you ate without getting sick.

Many leaders in the Jewish community do what you have indicated. They change rules they feel are inconvenient or that they feel just shouldn't be a rule to begin with. The only difference is that you're not in the position to make it a rule for all followers of Judaism to adhere to whereas they are. I think there are a lot of Jews that feel the way you do. It's just not all of them come right out and say it.

 

[painted wolf]

Isn't the whole "Clean-unclean" thing part of the ritual separation of Jews from everyone else? Like the circumcision thing.... it's showing your devotion to god by doing what god tells you, even if it seems odd.

wa:do

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Isn't the whole "Clean-unclean" thing part of the ritual separation of Jews from everyone else? Like the circumcision thing.... it's showing your devotion to god by doing what god tells you, even if it seems odd.

Also, having a cost associated with group membership can enhance the perceived value of the group to its members and can help foster a spirit of group identity: soldiers are linked by boot camp; gang members are linked by a "jump in"; Jews are linked by circumcision and kashrut.

In this regard, the specifics of the membership requirements don't really matter as long as they're socially costly in some way. If it's difficult to become (or stay) a member of the group, then you can be sure that all the members who do stay will be dedicated to the group... because they've given up something to be members.

 

[Caladan]

Also, having a cost associated with group membership can enhance the perceived value of the group to its members and can help foster a spirit of group identity: soldiers are linked by boot camp; gang members are linked by a "jump in"; Jews are linked by circumcision and kashrut.

In this regard, the specifics of the membership requirements don't really matter as long as they're socially costly in some way. If it's difficult to become (or stay) a member of the group, then you can be sure that all the members who do stay will be dedicated to the group... because they've given up something to be members.

This is a good response to the OP. a tight community follows the same habits. the dietary laws have a much more down to earth rationale than the explanation of the jugdement of god.