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Featured Why Jesus Will Never Return and How the Bible Refutes Itself

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by Hubert Farnsworth, Jun 4, 2019.

  1. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member
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    There are a lot of poorly educated charlatans pushing end times scenarios. Look at Hal Lindsey and Tim Lahaye. They can always make a buck on futurism.
     
  2. Hubert Farnsworth

    Hubert Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    You are the one who is twisting the "scriptures," not I. You are literally trying to change the meanings of words that are written because it makes you uncomfortable that your bible is wrong. It is laughable and even other Christian's can see how ridiculous your arguments are.
     
  3. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    Hi TrueBeliever37 some comments below.

    Response.

    Absolutely! Many of the signs listed in Mark 13 have been fulfilled and continue to be so un uncompleted prophecy is not a failed prophecy and the context is to the generation that will see all these signs come to pass.

    The post you were quotiong from was only outlining that there is two deaths for the wicked as there is two resurrections one for the just and one for the unjust. The some standing here I believe is in reference to those who will be present at the 2nd coming and not in necessarily in reference to the disciples. Many believe Matthew 16:27-28 is in reference to the disciples not seeing death untill the establsihment of God's Kingdom as commonly shown in the commentary below.

    Bengel's Gnomen
    Matthew 16:28. Τινὲς, some) Our Lord does not mention them by name; and it was profitable for them not to know that they were the persons meant.[772] Peter then scarcely hoped that he would be one of them.—ὧδε, here) A strikingly demonstrative particle.—ἓως ἄν ἴδωσι, until they see) Something is indicated which was to happen, but not immediately (otherwise all, or nearly all, would have lived to that time), but yet something which would take place in that generation of men. This term (terminus) or period has various intervals: the vision, or seeing, various degrees up to the death of those who saw it, which followed at various times: cf. in Luke 2:26, the expression πρὶν ἢ ἴδη, before he had seen, used with regard to Simeon. And the advent of the Son of Man advanced another step before the death of James (see Acts 2:36), and passim till Matthew 12:2, and cf. Hebrews 2:5-7); another before the death of Peter (see 2 Peter 1:14; 2 Peter 1:19, and Luke 21:31); another, and that the highest, before the death of John, in the most magnificent revelation of His coming, which the beloved disciple has himself described (see Gnomon on John 21:22); a revelation to which the event foretold will correspond; see Matthew 16:27, and ch. Matthew 26:64. And a previous proof of this matter was given in a week[773] from this time on the Mount of Transfiguration; and, at the same time, out of all the disciples those were chosen who should most especially see it. It is beyond question, that those three[774] who witnessed our Lord’s transfiguration were peculiarly favoured with reference to the subsequent manifestations of His glory. This saying of our Lord appears to have been referred to, but not rightly understood, by those who imagined that the last day was near at hand.—τὸν Υἱὸν τοῦ Ἀνθρώπου ἐρχόμενον, the Son of Man coming) His conspicuous coming to judgment (see Gnomon on Matthew 16:13) is meant, which would begin to follow immediately after His ascension.[775]

    [772] And He may have thereby also at the same time sharpened others.—V. g.
    [773] “After six days,” chap. Matthew 17:1.—ED.
    [774] Of whom James, in the year 44, Peter in 67, John in 102, are generally said to have died.—Harm., p. 372.
    [775] Bengel, J. A. (1860). Vol. 1: Gnomon of the New Testament (M. E. Bengel & J. C. F. Steudel, Ed.) (J. Bandinel & A. R. Fausset, Trans.) (251–333). Edinburgh: T&T Clark.

    For me however I can see an application here also to the visions given to John in the book of revelations in relation to end day events and the 2nd coming. I also see an application of Matthew 16:27-28 to the 2nd coming because of the context of v27 which for this post let's break it down to two sections within the scirptures context...

    Matthew 16:27
    For the [Section 1] Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then [Section 2] he will reward each person according to what they have done.

    This is the context of v28 and tends to agree with these scriptures pointing to the second coming as his reward is with him...

    Section 1; Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels..

    Matthew 24:27-31
    [27], For as the lightning comes out of the east, and shines even to the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
    [28], For wherever the carcass is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
    [29], Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
    [30], And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
    [31], And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

    Matthew 25:31
    But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne.

    Mark 8:38
    For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will also be ashamed of him when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels.

    2 Thessalonians 1:6-9
    [6], Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
    [7], And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
    [8], In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
    [9], Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power

    Mark 13:27
    And then He will send forth the angels, and will gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of heaven.

    The context here in Matthew 16:27 is with his Angels which is in reference to the 2nd coming which is when he comes with his Angels.

    ..............

    Now let's look at the second section of Matthew 16:27..

    Section 1; he will reward each person according to what they have done...

    Revelation 22:12
    And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

    So context here I believe also leans towards the second coming and those who will be present at this time.

    ............

    Every eye shall see the second coming...

    Paul tells us about how, at the second coming of Christ, "The Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire..." (2Thessalonians 1:5-10). John tells us, "Behold he is coming with the clouds and every eye shall see him..." (Revelation 1:7).

    The Resurrection of All the Dead at the second coming...

    According to Paul, this will be "a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked" (Acts 24:15). Paul has wonderfully explained and described this resurrection (1Corinthians 15:35-58). John saw a vision of the resurrection. "I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne... the sea gave up the dead who were in it, and death and hades gave up the dead who were in them..."(Revelation 20:12-13). Long ago, Daniel was promised he would rise from the dead (Daniel 12:13).Jesus tells us how the dead will be raised at his second coming: "An hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; those who did the good, to a resurrection of life, those who did the evil to a resurrection of judgment." (John 5:28-29). Speaking to the high priest Jesus says; Matthew 26:63-64 [63], But Jesus held his peace, And the high priest answered and said to him, I adjure you by the living God, that you tell us whether you be the Christ, the Son of God. [64], Jesus said to him, You have said: nevertheless I say to you, Hereafter shall you see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

    Probably will stop here as it is getting away from the OP.

    God bless
     
  4. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    You are confused. All I hear are your words denying God's. You are free to believe as you wish. We all stand before God come judgment day. You have been warned and have been provided the scriptures that show your error therefore your argument is with God not me as it is God's word you are trying to argue with to try and teach there is no God. There is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed come judgment day. Sadly at this time it will be too late for those who did not know the day of their visitiation.
     
  5. Hubert Farnsworth

    Hubert Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    I don't teach there is no god. I also don't teach that there is a god. I'm agnostic. If there is a God, he would be pleased that I don't lie and pretend I know something that I really don't know.
     
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  6. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member
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    Preaching about the end time and the rapture was rare in the 1930s. Most Christians were partial preterists..

    Scofield was hired to promote Zionism by Samuel Untermeyer. Have you ever heard of Untermeyer?
     
  7. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    Are you not the one arguing with God's Word and making threads and claiming that Jesus will never return and the bible is not true? The very thread you have made testifies against your claims in regards to you do not lie. Yet it is God's Word that says let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That you might be justified in your sayings, and might overcome when you are judged. Yet you say God's Word's are lies and say you do not lie? I will leave that claim between you and God. I do not judge you. The fool says in his heart there is no God *Psalms 14:1; Romans 3:4. The reason men love darkness rather than light is because of evil deed *John 3:15-20. There is nothing hidden that shall not be made plain come judgment day *Luke 8:17. Sadly at this time it will be too late for those who did not know the day of their visitation.
     
    #167 3rdAngel, Jul 9, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
  8. Hubert Farnsworth

    Hubert Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    How do you KNOW that God exists? You don't. You believe it and pretend that it is a fact when it is unprovable. I make no claim one way or the other because I am honest.
     
  9. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    All you have to do is walk outside and see that there is a God. Just because you cannot see the wind does not mean there is no wind.

    The very posts and thread you make testify against your claims that you do not teach that there is no God. Is this being honest in your view? Can you prove there is no God? Nope! If not does this not concern you considering what the scriptures have to say? It should, it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
     
    #169 3rdAngel, Jul 9, 2019
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  10. Hubert Farnsworth

    Hubert Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    "Walking outside" in no way proves that a god exists. That is the lamest argument I have ever heard. Where is your "God" when children who are being raped in church cry out to him?
     
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  11. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member
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    Most Christians these days don't understand Daniel or Isaiah AT ALL.. That's why they are deceived.

    For instance, Isaiah 9:6 isn't about Jesus .. Isaiah is speaking to King Ahaz about something that will happen during his lifetime NOT 700 years later.

    This is where the lack of education really hurts Christians and leaves them vulnerable to being duped by charlatans.
     
  12. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    Indeed for you it is as it is hard to see what you close your eyes and ears to when you say in your heart there is no God. Evil deeds are only done by those who do not believe in God *John 3:15-21. Judgment day is coming for these. Would not like to be in their shoes.
     
    #172 3rdAngel, Jul 10, 2019
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  13. Hubert Farnsworth

    Hubert Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    What a load of horsesh1t. Ever heard of Hitler? He believed in God.
     
  14. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    A believer is only someone who follows what God says. He that says he believes God but does not follow what God says is really an unbeliever. *Matthew 7:21; Romans 2:13; James 1:21. The devils believe God and will not be saved because they do not follow God *James 2:18-20; 26. All unbelievers will stand before God come judgment day *Hebrews 9:27; Romans 6:21-23. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth *Luke 13:28. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God *Hebrews 10:26-31. Yep at that time it will be to late for those that did not know the day of their visitation and turned their back to the Word of God to say there is no Word *John 12:48.
     
    #174 3rdAngel, Jul 10, 2019
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  15. Hubert Farnsworth

    Hubert Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    You contradicted yourself, buddy. Being able to rattle off bible verses you memorized certainly proves nothing about your ability to think logically or engage in a rational discussion....
     
  16. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member
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    There is too much evidence for religious people doing terrible things like burning witches, selling slaves, owning slaves, slaughtering Cathars and Templars, the Conquistadors, the persecution of the Jews and the Holocaust. It just goes on and on.The idea of any argument is just gross hypocrisy.
     
  17. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    Not at all. Spiritual things are spiritually discerned. You do not know what you are talking about because you do not know God. The natural man (unbelievers) receives not the things of the spirit of God neither can he know them because they are foolishness unto him *1 Corinthians 2:14. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He takes the wise in their own craftiness preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness *1 Corinthians 3:19. The fool says in his heart there is no God *Psalms 14:1. Yet God has chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God has chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty, and base things of the world, and things which are despised, has God chosen, yes, and things which are not, to bring to nothing things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence. *1 Corinthians 1:27-29. For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe *1 Corinthians 1:19-21. Yep many are going to be disappointed come judgment day when they did not know the hour of their visitation. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
     
  18. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    Who says religious people are believers? What do you think the post is saying that you are responding to?
     
  19. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member
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    In context.. this sounds asinine.

    Spiritual things are spiritually discerned. You do not know what you are talking about because you do not know God. The natural man (unbelievers) receives not the things of the spirit of God neither can he know them because they are foolishness unto him *1 Corinthians 2:14.
     
  20. Hubert Farnsworth

    Hubert Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    A wall of textual gibberish doesn't hide your contradiction. How do you have time to write so much irrelevant drivel? There are some Christian's who actually make good arguments and know how to debate properly but I'm wasting my time here. Bye.
     
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