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Featured Why Jesus Will Never Return and How the Bible Refutes Itself

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by Hubert Farnsworth, Jun 4, 2019.

  1. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness
     
  2. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    Timothy wrote for Paul..
     
  3. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    What do you think the words of Timothy were saying in the scripture shared with you?
     
  4. Hubert Farnsworth

    Hubert Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    He spoke to the disciples and said "...when YOU see all these things...", yet they did not see them. You claim this is because he was actually speaking to a future audience when the text indicates otherwise. This is equivalent to and every bit as illogical as claiming that when he says to Peter "you will deny me three times before the rooster crows" he actually means that Peter will NOT deny him but the reading audience thousands of years in the future will deny him before a rooster crows. It is clear that your arguments are fallacious.
     
  5. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    Yep keep telling yourself that. You do indeed deny the word of God in order to teach there is no God. He was speaking directly to the disciples. The disciples commission was to take the words of Jesus to the world, hence the four gospels and the words of Jesus and the bible being for all Christians. Your only repeating yourself now without addressing any of the posts and the scriptures that disagree with you. It is clear you do not know God's Word and you have no argument. Does this not worry you that it is God's Word you are denying and the very words of Jesus for that matter? You are free to believe and do as you wish but be warned friend we all stand before God come judgment day.
     
    #145 3rdAngel, Jul 8, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2019
  6. Hubert Farnsworth

    Hubert Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    I am repeating myself because you are dodging the question that you know proves you wrong. But I'll keep giving you a chance to answer: when Jesus tells peter: "YOU will deny me three times before the rooster crows" in Matthew 26, why do you believe he is talking to Peter and not to the reader thousands of years in the future, yet in Matthew 24, when the second person pronoun "you" is used, you claim it actually means "they" and refers to a future generation when it clearly doesn't? Furthermore, how do you differentiate between this usage of "YOU" in Matthew 26 and the usage of "you" in Matthew 24 when he tells the disciples "...when YOU see all these things..."?
     
  7. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    You are confused. Your repeating yourself because you are not able to respond to the posts and scriptures that have already addressed your OP and the "YOU" being in reference to the disciples. These posts have only been provided as a help to you. You are now confused about the "YOU" as shown earlier which is in reference to all those who would hear and receive the Gospel (the words of Jesus) that the disciples were commissioned to take to the world *Matthew 28:16-20.

    The word of God is for all the disciples of Jesus today in the "present tense". Your denial of God's word today in the "present tense" in order to promote your own words to teach that there is no God is noted so your argument is with God not me. Anyhow my friend this seems to be getting tiresome, if you are unable respond to the posts and scriptures provided to you that disagree with you I will leave that between you and God as there is no point in continuing this discussion with you.

    You are free to believe and do as you wish. Remeber however you have been warned from the scriptures of your errors and all of us will have to give account of ourselve to God come judgment day. This should concern you. I will leave you with these scriptures to think about *Hebrews 10:26-31 and pray that while you still have time you may turn back to God and we may see each other in God's Kingdom. At the moment however I would not like to be in your shoes.

    We cannot see the wind but the wind blows. That does not mean there is no wind.

    Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

    May God help you.
     
    #147 3rdAngel, Jul 8, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2019
  8. Hubert Farnsworth

    Hubert Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    And yet...you still failed to answer the question. Matthew 26:34 states: Truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “this very night, before the rooster crows, you will disown me three times.

    I assume that you believe that in this verse, Jesus is speaking to Peter, rather than a future person who is not alive at that time. Yet, Matthew 24:33-34 states: Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

    Even though Matthew 24:33-34 and Matthew 26:34 are both written using second person language, you believe that the latter is in reference to the audience listening to Jesus at the time, but the former you believe is in reference to a future generation. However, the only reason you believe the former references a future generation is because you do not want to admit that the prophecy failed. This explains why you are continually dodging this point. Your previous posts have never discussed why there is a discrepancy in your interpretation of second person language between these two passages. The fact that you will not explain the discrepancy only tells me, and the rest of the Internet audience observing this exchange, that you *cannot* explain it. Now, I believe that you are an intelligent person. I am confident that you are intelligent enough to recognize your error, but do not want to admit it.


     
  9. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    You posts and claims have no truth in them. You try to use God's Word in order to deny God. Your denial of the truth and your false claims are noted. Your OP and question have indeed been answered. Was the commission to the disciples to carry the teachings of Jesus to the world for new disciples? Your response was to deny the scriptures only provided in love and sent as a help to you. Your errors in denying God's Word in order to teach there is no God have already been pointed out to you in the posts already provided that you refuse to address. You are free to believe and do as you wish. We all answer only to God come judgment day. As posted earlier you have been warned what the scriptures say. To deny God's Word is to deny God himself who we must all answer to. Matthew 10:32-33 [32], Whoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. [33], But whoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

    Yep would not like to be in your shoes..

    May God help you.
     
  10. Hubert Farnsworth

    Hubert Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    Please explain why the second person pronouns in Matthew 24:33 and Matthew 26:34 have different meanings. I'm waiting........
     
  11. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    Let's look at this one more time in detail...
    If that were true you would have responded to my posts. Sadly I am still waiting. Here you quote Matthew 26:34 as an argument to try and state that the word "YOU" which was a direct personal reference to Peter's denial of Jesus which was a prophecy directed personally to Peter which has already been fulfilled *Luke 22:61 has the same application as the word "YOU to the disciples in Mark 13:30. So yep we can certainly say this is a past tense prophecy by Jesus that was fulfilled personally to Peter. Your argument here seeks to state that the word "YOU" used in reference is to only the disciples in Mark 13:30 yet your error here is that the prophecies outlined in Mark 13:21-30 have not been fulfilled and that these words of Jesus given to the disciples are a part of the great commission for the gospel (word of God) to be given to the world for new disciples (next generations) *Matthew 28:16-20. So my friend if these words of Jesus as written in Mark 13:21-30 have not been fulfilled and they are a part of the Gospel that is to go to the world to make new disciples (present tense) then why would you think that these words were only to the disciples in Jesus day and not to disciples of Jesus through all time "present tense" as a part of the great commission? You do not know the scriptures or the word of God. Yet it is God's Word again that says; 1 Corinthians 10:11 Now all these things happened to them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, on whom the ends of the world are come. 2 Timothy 3:16, All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. Your error is that you teach God's Word in order to deny God. For this you will be held accountable as you have been warned already and shown your error but you refuse to acknowledge your mistakes.

    May God help you.
     
    #151 3rdAngel, Jul 8, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2019
  12. Hubert Farnsworth

    Hubert Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    You are trying to make the word "you" mean "they" and the word "this" mean "that." And you cannot even see the ridiculousness of it. Amazing.
     
  13. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    Your post has no truth in it.

    The word "YOU" in Mark 13:30 is in reference to the context of the question asked collectively by the disciples in Mark 13:1-4

    Mark 13:1-4
    [1], And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples said to him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here!
    [2], And Jesus answering said to him, See you these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone on another, that shall not be thrown down.
    [3], And as he sat on the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately,
    [4], TELL US, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?

    "YOU"
    being referred to in v30 is collective to "US" in v4 of the question being asked; what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?

    Context matters. Using God's Word to deny God is not working very well for you now is it. Ignoring God's Word does not make it dissappear. What is rediculous and amazing is your denial of God's Word in order to deny God. Would not like to be in your shoes.

    May God help you.
     
    #153 3rdAngel, Jul 8, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2019
  14. Hubert Farnsworth

    Hubert Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    Exactly, it was a private conversation. He said that Peter, James, John, & Andrew would see Armageddon. This is also confirmed in Matthew 10:23, and 16:28. You can admit the prophecy failed and still be a Christian. CS Lewis did.
     
  15. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    It was not a private conversation. If it was a private conversation it would not be in the bible and a part of gospels and the great commission given to the disciples in the days of Jesus to go to all the world for disciples of all ages. You do err not knowthing the scriptures or what you are talking about. Because a prophecy is not completed does not mean it is not going to happen. Mark 13:12-30 gives a list of signs that will take place prior to the 2nd coming. Many of these have been filfilled according to the words of Jesus. The reference is to the generation that will see all the signs listed being fulfilled in *Mark 13:12-30. Why you would think the opinion of a man is more important over than the Word of God holds no weight to your argument. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men *Romans 3:4; Matthew 15:3-9.
     
    #155 3rdAngel, Jul 8, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2019
  16. Hubert Farnsworth

    Hubert Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it was.

    Matthew 24:3: "As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

    You are really making a fool of yourself now.
     
  17. TrueBeliever37

    TrueBeliever37 Active Member

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    Hi 3rdAngel,
    I want to preface this with the fact that I believe the scriptures are true, and these are NOT failed prophecies. (I gave my explanation of what I think it means in post 99)

    But I just don't see how it could be the 2nd death he is talking about.
    #1 He didn't actually say 2nd death in the verse.

    #2 The 2nd death (which is equivalent to being cast into hell) occurs after he returns, not before. And no one in any generation will taste of the 2nd death before he returns.

    #3 The 2nd death = having their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone. (aka - being cast into hell.) Revelation 21:8
    Since the 2nd death = being cast into hell, substitute that into the verse and see if it makes any sense. The verse would then say: Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste (the 2nd death=hell) before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom. Does that really make sense to you?
     
    #157 TrueBeliever37, Jul 9, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
  18. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    Your ability to twist scripture and the application of I have said to you is simply sad for you and is to your own destruction *2 Peter 3:16. In reference to the earlier posts provided to you when speaking about private discussion it was in reference to both a personal prophecy to Peter you brought up and also to your claims in Mark 13 that this part of the gospel was not to anyone else except the disciples. You were provided scripture that shows that everything Jesus has said was to the disciples. In reference to the disciples here we can both agree that Jesus spoke these words privately to the disciples. These words in Mark were said provately to the disciples they were a part of the gospel commission given to the disciples to give to the whole world and is why they are told and given in the gospels and are a part of the great gospel commission that Jesus commanded the disciples to give to the world. Therefore the Word of God is for the God's people and His disciples of all ages *Matthew 28:16-20; 2 Timothy 3:16. Most of the New Testament gospel was spoken to the disciples "PRIVATELY" with the sole purpose of the gospel commission to be given to the world and disciples of all ages. Jesus speaking to the disciples privately in Mark 13 does not mean that what Jesus spoke to the disciples was only to them alone as what Jesus shared with the disciples was given to them to share with the world. You do err not knowing the scriptures seeking to use the scriptures in order to deny God. Your OP is better read; "Why Jesus will return and how the bible refutes Hubert Farnsworth".
     
    #158 3rdAngel, Jul 9, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
  19. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    Silly, isn't it?
     
  20. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    Yep it is. Who are God's dsiciples today? Everyone that believes and follows God's Word in the present tense.
     
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