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Featured Why Jesus Will Never Return and How the Bible Refutes Itself

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by Hubert Farnsworth, Jun 4, 2019.

  1. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I find it was after Paul that John wrote Revelation, writing at the very end of the first century.
    The setting or time frame for Revelation 1:10 is set for our day or time frame.
    So, the shortly or quickly coming of Revelation 22:20 is in connection to the coming time of 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3.
    This is why Revelation 16:15 informs us that Jesus comes by surprise as a thief does.
    So, what happened with, "Behold I come shortly" is that shortly or quickly is connected to the soon coming ' time of separation ' to take place on Earth of Matthew 25:31-33,37,40 just ahead of us.
    Once the powers that be will be saying, " Peace and Security.." that will prove to be the precursor to the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14,9 when ' surprise ' behold Jesus comes quickly or shortly to the rescue at this time frame.
     
  2. It Aint Necessarily So

    It Aint Necessarily So Well-Known Member
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    Your values are not mine. Being self-sacrificing cannot be a goal, and not all sacrifice is in the service of a worthy purpose. It is only ever a means to a desired end, whether good or bad.

    We sacrifice by giving to our children, for example, but the value is not in the sacrificing itself.

    My purpose in life is to achieve maximum satisfaction, which requires discipline and sacrifice. That may sound selfish to you, but one learns that maximal satisfaction is achieved in part through acts of love and living a life of integrity.

    Isn't your goal also maximal satisfaction, which you envision as being in heaven worshiping a god? Some of the sacrifices you make are made in the service of realizing that goal. Sacrifice is a means to a desired end, not a virtue in itself.

    I'm not looking to follow anybody, and I do not consider the life of Christ as described in the Bible to be exemplary, nor the person depicted extraordinary if one takes out the miracles. He was a decent guy dedicated to religion, something of no value to me.

    It matters to me.

    I have no reason to believe that. Right now, it is you offering me everlasting life, a promise that cannot be verified and need not be kept.

    Thanks for your interest and good intentions, but I have a completely different worldview than you have. I wouldn't be happy as a Christian. I know that from experience. I was a Christian, and it was not satisfying the way life has been since.

    Since then, rather than following a religion or the advice of a holy book, I have sought to shape myself through trial and error, trying to become the person I want to be, seeking satisfaction by living a life that I can be proud of when its over. I'm following myself - my senses, intuitions and conscience. They have served me well thus far.

    I take the prophecy at face value. It says plainly that Jesus will return before the people hearing him have all died, something that did not occur.

    Not being a believer, I have no reason to try to make that not seem like a failed prophecy. You do, hence the semantic gymnastics.
     
    #82 It Aint Necessarily So, Jun 8, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2019
  3. BilliardsBall

    BilliardsBall Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for asking, but there are numerous verses indicating that a third Temple will be built, ushering the Lord's return. Remember Paul admonishing the Thessalonians that Jesus would NOT return before the Antichrist sits on the throne in the Temple in Jerusalem--there's no way the literal, specific Antichrist will sit on the the throne of every believer's heart...
     
  4. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Well-Known Member

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    Agg, this is easy to answer.
    many of the Disciples and Apostles who stood there did see Jesus ascend into heaven after he became a bright white light.
    And the generation that will see all these things happen, will be a future one that will see the "Fig tree" getting leaves.
    Sorry, you were wrong on this one.
     
  5. OtherSheep

    OtherSheep <--- Bethulah

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    Pay attention to the colors and armour where else you may have noticed them.
    The locusts are men, just as they are in Joel.
    Revelation is symbolic when it doesn't match the science that God created.
     
  6. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    Yes. Everyone knows that.
     
  7. OtherSheep

    OtherSheep <--- Bethulah

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    Then why do you think Rome has anything to do with it? Don't we see the same armor on the horses and riders released at the Euphrates?
     
  8. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I suppose that is because you are the ultimate authority on all things and know everything there is to know. Sorry but that isn't really you; that is God. So I will accept His testimony that He will return over yours any day of the week.
     
  9. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe you have a dispensation and contextual problem that blinds you to the truth.
     
  10. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe the Biblical text does not support that view. It only works if you take things out of context.
     
  11. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein ᛘᛁᛏᚾᛁᚴᚼᛏ᛫ᛋᚢᚾ
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    Sorry to inform you that rotting corpses do not come back to life and float up into space. I'll take science, the laws of reality and simple logic over literalist nonsense any day.
     
  12. Sandra Jayne

    Sandra Jayne Member

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  13. Sandra Jayne

    Sandra Jayne Member

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  14. Sandra Jayne

    Sandra Jayne Member

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    I think you have misunderstood much of what is meant in the scriptures. Whilst the Jewish way of worship built around the temple in Jerusalem experienced its last days from 33 to 70 C.E this was just an illustration of what would be experienced in a more intense and global scale.

    "The stars will fall from the skies"
    refers to the fallen angels who along with Satan will be cast out of heaven down to the earth-this is when Jesus is given authority over the earth Rev:12 7-9
    "On this account be glad you heavens and you who reside in them. Woe for the earth and the sea for the Devil has come down to you, having great anger because he knows he has a short time". Rev 12:12

    The prophecy is when earthquakes, pestilence, wars, famines, increasing lawlessness and a contempt for the belief in God and a love of self is a sign of the last days. Whilst some of these always happen throughout history if you wish to research, the last hundred years shows a huge increase in all of these have occurred in a short time period. It is the generation who lives through much of this Jesus is referring to.

    You have made several points and it is difficult to address all of them in one 'sitting' prophecies in Revelations indicate that the end of days was never going to be whilst Jesus was on the earth.
    Last days,.....and for destroying those who destroy the earth." rev 11:18 doubt anyone who was living two thousand years ago would have any idea how one could destroy the earth.

    "I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war....called Word of God.
    "Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army".
    Rev 19 11:19 This hasn't happened yet!!
     
  15. Hubert Farnsworth

    Hubert Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    The letters in Revelation were written to churches in towns that no longer exist. Clearly revelation's prophecies were intended for a first century audience, and they are only further confirmation that these are failed prophecies.

    Matthew 16:27-28:
    For the Son of Man is going to COME IN HIS FATHER'S GLORY WITH HIS ANGELS AND THEN HE WILL REWARD EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO WHAT THEY HAVE DONE. Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.

    Clearly, this is a failed prophecy.
     
  16. SugarOcean

    SugarOcean ¡pɹᴉǝM ʎɐʇS

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    I know Christians that aren't as obsessed with God as much as this one is. That's some Agnostic. Thread after thread , post after post, they prove there is a God worth talking about.
     
  17. SugarOcean

    SugarOcean ¡pɹᴉǝM ʎɐʇS

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    Maybe it is a matter of thinking more than one name parroting the same drivel will eradicate over 1 billion faithful.
    Love the groundhog gif.
    I watched the movie. Once. OK, maybe more than once. ;-)
     
  18. Sandra Jayne

    Sandra Jayne Member

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    Why are you so angry?
     
  19. TrueBeliever37

    TrueBeliever37 Active Member

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    I don't see it as a failed prophecy at all. The first part is still in the future and will be fulfilled when he returns and judges us and gives each their reward.

    The last part about some not tasting death before they see him coming in his kingdom is referring to the day of Pentecost. His kingdom/church was established on the day of Pentecost as mentioned in Acts 2:1-39. The kingdom of God is not meat and drink, but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit. Romans 14:17 So the kingdom didn't come until the Holy Spirit was first poured out.
    He said in John 14:17-26 the comforter is the Holy Spirit (v.26) and I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you(v.18)

    So some of them standing there, were still alive on the day of Pentecost when he came in the power of the Holy Spirit.
     
  20. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    You do err not knowing the scriptures. Let's look at your claims here section by section. You do indeed leave out context as none of the scriptures you have quoted are failed prophecies.

    1. Matthew 10:21-23, Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

    This supports your position of a failed prophecy how??? Isreal in the new covenant represent all those who believe and follow God's Word *Romans 9:6-8. Notice that there is many different Chrstian religions today *Matthew 24:24; 2 Peter 2:1-22. God has his people in all religions living up to all the knowledge that he has revealed to them *John 10:16; John 4:23-24 that he will lead back to a knowledge of His Word before the second coming and God's judgment to mankind *Acts 17:30-31; James 4:17. So no the scripture above has not been fulfilled and does not say what your teaching it says. This message is also further identified in Revelation 14:6-12; 17:1-5; 18:1-5 with the announcement that the chuches of the world have become currupt and have fallen away from God's Word to follow the teachings and traditions of men over the word of God and the call of God's people to come out of these teachings and return back to the pure word of God

    ................

    2. Matthew 16:27-28: For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done. “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”

    Once again you are mixed up not knowing God's word. These scriptures are true as they read. You do know that the bible speaks of two deaths right? All mankind (except those followers who are alive at the 2nd coming) die once than after this the judgment *Hebrews 9:27. The not tasting of death is in reference here to those followers at that time who would not taste of the 2nd death and receive eternal life *Revelation 2:11; Revelation 20:6; Revelation 21:8. So once again you are confused in relation to what the scriptures are saying and do not know the scriptures.

    ................

    3. Mark 13:12-30 (your reference is incorrect here like your OP and your understanding of the scriptures. It is not Matthew)
    [12], Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death.
    [13], And you shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved.
    [14], But when you shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that reads understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
    [15], And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house:
    [16], And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment.
    [17], But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
    [18], And pray you that your flight be not in the winter.
    [19], For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created to this time, neither shall be.
    [20], And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he has chosen, he has shortened the days.

    Note: What is the abomination of desolation as prophesied in the bible? Is it the second coming or is it the prophecy fortold in Daniel 9:24-27? Do you know what this is referring to?

    [21], And then if any man shall say to you, See, here is Christ; or, see, he is there; believe him not:

    Note: Now we are moving on to the 2nd coming

    [22], For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall show signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
    [23], But take you heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.
    [24], But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
    [25], And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
    [26], And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
    [27], And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
    [28], Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near:
    [29], So you in like manner, when you shall see these things come to pass, know that it is near, even at the doors.
    [30], Truly I say to you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.

    Note: This generation is in reference to the generation that will be present at the time of the events taking place. When Jesus was alive there could not be false Christs because he was alive. So the section of scriptures in relation to the 2nd coming are in reference to after the death of Jesus because he was living he was the true Christ. So before the 2nd coming the "this generation" being referred to here is the generation that would see;

    1. False Christs arise showing great signs and wonders to deceive God's people;
    2. Great tribulation, the sun darkening, the moon not giving light;
    3. The stars of heaven falling, the shaking of the heavens;
    4. The second coming.

    This generation being referring to here is that generation that sees these things listed prior to the 2nd coming will see the 2nd coming. It not not talking about those who were alive in Jesus day. It is in reference to the generation that would see these signs prior to the 2nd coming. Can you see your error here?

    All the scriptures you have provided with your interpretation have been addressed in detail showing you have a false understanding of the scriptures you have provided. You may want to rethink your OP as there is no truth in it.
     
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