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Featured Why jesus curse and stop the fig then he can't stop the devil sabotage activity

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by j1i, Sep 4, 2019.

  1. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    I am not sure I understand .. I find blood sacrifice repulsive and pagan even in Christianity... That's a real stumbling block for me even as an Episcopalian.
     
  2. leov

    leov Well-Known Member

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  3. TrueBeliever37

    TrueBeliever37 Well-Known Member

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    I noticed you skipped actually answering the questions at hand. If he was just a man how was he before Abraham? and how was he the root of David? (we know how he was the offspring)

    Who is the him being referred to in Colossians 1:16 that created all things?

    How would all things be made through him if he wasn't even born yet?

    I know what the verse is saying. It is letting us know that he created everything and so he has to be YHWH dwelling in a fleshly body.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  4. TrueBeliever37

    TrueBeliever37 Well-Known Member

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    Why so many statements acting like I have implied more than one. I was the one that said YHWH created all things and said he was alone and by himself. I am proving with other verses that the Messiah was YHWH dwelling in a fleshly body. I DON'T BELIEVE IN A TRINITY!

    I believe in one God that took on a fleshly body and shed his blood for man's sin.


    The son is the flesh and the Father is the eternal Spirit dwelling in that flesh. You can deny it all you want, but somehow this son would also be called the mighty God, and the everlasting Father. Isaiah 9:6

    What about YHWH saying in Zechariah 12:9-10 - and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced?

    What about Revelation 1:8 where it says
    I am the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. (Who is the one to come? Surely you know it is the Messiah.)
    Now compare with Revelation 22:12-16 where the Messiah said behold I come quickly... I am the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. After he resurrected he said all power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. So he is the Almighty.

    If he was just a man, how could he say Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up? John 2:19 (Answer: It was YHWH dwelling in that body that was speaking.)
     
    #124 TrueBeliever37, Sep 6, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2019
  5. leov

    leov Well-Known Member

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    Christ that was in Jesus spoke.
     
  6. TrueBeliever37

    TrueBeliever37 Well-Known Member

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    Hi leov,
    Please explain what you mean. Christ is the Greek word for Messiah. He was the Messiah so I don't know what you are saying.

    I am saying it was YHWH dwelling in that body that spoke and said Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up. Are you in agreement?
     
  7. leov

    leov Well-Known Member

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    Christ is Aeon, Very High Level Spiritual Being , entered body of Jesus upon Baptism.
     
  8. TrueBeliever37

    TrueBeliever37 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry doesn't make sense to me. Give verses please. You didn't answer if you were in agreement with what I have said or not.
     
  9. leov

    leov Well-Known Member

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    Christ Jesus as well as Paul said that *not making no sense" is normal thing, a part of growing mature (perfect). I take their word on this.
    “I saw the Spirit descend from heaven like a dove, and it remained on him."
     
  10. KenS

    KenS Face to face with my Father
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    1) You never answered my questions which makes me wonder how much you really are interested in answers
    2) A question is never presented in the form of two videos.
    3) You have made many statements but I have yet to see one real question.
    4) Apparently not answering questions is not just observed by me... #128
     
  11. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

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    The first video the Islamic preacher refutes the "peace in Jesus Christ" and said that Jesus is not God. He is correct in saying that Jesus is not God but he fell short that Jesus is to be worshiped even he is not God because God gave Jesus all the right to be worshiped. The second video the Islamic preacher confuses his audience that Jesus did not die because of the differences with what happened to Jonah and the whale.

    [​IMG]

    Is Jesus God? My answer is NO.
    and from my previous post I have proved this using the scriptures.
    Jesus is the Son of God and never God the Son.

    Is Jesus to be worshiped? My answer is YES
    not as God but as a man who was given by God the right to be worshiped

    Is there peace in Jesus Christ? My answer is YES
    Is there peace in Mohamed? What do you think?
    What came first - the chicken or the egg?
    Who came first Jesus Christ or Mohamed?
    How did they lived their lives - was it holy or was it erotic? You have to find out.

    Did Jesus die on the cross? Absolutely.
    It is written in the four synoptic Gospels which Mr. Zakir Naik reads
    The proof that Jesus died on the cross is the same proof that Dr. Naik knows Jesus
    and like many Islamic preacher, they have to deny the sacrifice Jesus made so they could promote another idea because people would easily see the message and greatness of the man called Jesus, the Son of God.

    Jesus in Islam - Wikipedia
    In Islam, ʿĪsā ibn Maryam (Arabic: عيسى بن مريم‎, lit. 'Jesus, son of Mary'), or Jesus, is understood to be the penultimate prophet and messenger of God (Allah) and al-Masih, the Arabic term for Messiah (Christ), sent to guide the Children of Israel with a new revelation: Injīl (Arabic for "the gospel").Jesus is believed to be a prophet who neither married nor had any children and is reflected as a significant figure, being found in the Quran in 93 verses with various titles attached such as "Son of Mary" and other relational terms, mentioned directly and indirectly, over 187 times.He is thus the most mentioned person in the Quran by reference; 25 times by the name Isa, third-person 48 times, first-person 35 times, and the rest as titles and attributes
     
  12. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

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    My golly.
    I didn't say Jesus is just a man.
    Peter, the apostle of Jesus said
    Jesus is a very special man as the BIBLE says:

    Acts 2:22 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
    “My fellow Israelites, listen to these words: Jesus from Nazareth was a very special man. God clearly showed this to you. He proved it by the miracles, wonders, and miraculous signs he did through Jesus. You all saw these things, so you know this is true.

    I didn't say Jesus is just a man
    Jesus Christ, himself said
    He is a man who listened to God as a 120 year old BIBLE says:

    John 8:40 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
    But now you seek to kill me, a man who have spoken the truth to you, which I have heard of God. This Abraham did not.

    He is a man who listened to God as a 420 year old BIBLE says

    John 8:40 1599 Geneva Bible (GNV)
    But now ye go about to kill me, a man that have told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.

    [​IMG]

    Now to answer your questions so you won't accuse me of being a skipper:

    If he was just a man how was he before Abraham?
    He was not born yet.
    Mary wasn't born yet and I bet the mother of Mary wasn't born yet

    and how was he the root of David? (we know how he was the offspring)
    and the offspring he is

    [​IMG]


    How would all things be made through him if he wasn't even born yet?

    My parents love me before I was born - they bought me a crib, baby clothes, baby toys and more
    I hope your parents did too.

    [​IMG]


    Colossians 1:16 English Standard Version (ESV)
    For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.

    God made all things - that is the who referred in the Bible.

    Ephesians 3:9 English Standard Version (ESV)
    and to bring to light for everyone what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God, who created all things,


    Malachi 2:10 English Standard Version (ESV)
    Have we not all one Father? Has not one God created us? Why then are we faithless to one another, profaning the covenant of our fathers?

    He is the one Father, the one God mentioned in the Bible.
    Now for your final question - How would all things be made through him if he wasn't even born yet?

    Hebrews 11:3 English Standard Version (ESV)
    By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.

    So what is the word of God - it is the plan about Jesus Christ
    It is called the Logos or the Word

    John 1:1
    Goodspeed(i) 1 In the beginning the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was divine.

    John 1:1
    Moffatt(i) 1 THE Logos existed in the very beginning, the Logos was with God, the Logos was divine.

    upload_2019-9-7_10-49-39.jpeg

    Even before the very first day of creation, God had the plan of Jesus in mind. That is why Jesus prayed to God these words:

    John 17:24 New International Version (NIV)
    “Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.

    Jesus had to be born yet, he wasn't around but the Lord God had this plan in mind.
    He did not create the world for the mere fun of it
    He did not create the world without any purpose
    He created the world because he has the plan about Jesus all along
    He appointed Jesus to be the heir of all things, all things that God created.

    Hebrews 1:2 English Standard Version (ESV)
    but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.
     
  13. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

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    That one God, who took on a fleshy body is not in the Bible.

    This is what the God written in the Bible says:

    Numbers 23:19 New International Version (NIV)
    God is not human, that he should lie,
    not a human being, that he should change his mind.
    Does he speak and then not act?
    Does he promise and not fulfill?


    1 Samuel 15:29 New International Version (NIV)

    He who is the Glory of Israel does not lie or change his mind; for he is not a human being, that he should change his mind.”

    So the God of the Bible isn't human or a human being.
    He is not fickle minded also.
    He does not change - his mind or his nature

    Psalm 55:19 New International Version (NIV)
    God, who is enthroned from of old,
    who does not change

    he will hear them and humble them,
    because they have no fear of God.

    Malachi 3:6 New International Version (NIV)
    I the Lord do not change. So you, the descendants of Jacob, are not destroyed.

    The God of the Bible is not human, and does not change
    In fact he does not even cast a shadow.

    James 1:17 New International Version (NIV)
    Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.

    [​IMG]

    But if your God has a shadow because he has taken the form of a fleshy being then your God is not my God
    My God does not change from what he is to a human. My God does not have a shadow. My God is in the Bible who Jesus introduced as:

    John 4:24 New King James Version (NKJV)
    God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

    And Jesus Christ in the Bible says God who is Spirit has no flesh and bones, which Jesus had

    Luke 24:39 New King James Version (NKJV)
    Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.”

    So what kind of God has flesh and bones?
    Not from the Bible, maybe from somewhere else
     
  14. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

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    Not simply denying for the sake of denying.
    What is written in the Bible, is written.
    The rest are opinions and hullabaloos

    upload_2019-9-7_11-36-24.jpeg

    Isaiah 9:6 New King James Version (NKJV)
    For unto us a Child is born,
    Unto us a Son is given;
    And the government will be upon His shoulder.
    And His name will be called
    Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
    Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

    THE VERSE ISAIAH 9:6 indeed is a prophecy about the “Son,” our Lord Jesus Christ. However, Jesus Christ is not the “Mighty God” referred to, nor does this prophecy indicate His alleged divinity. Isaiah 9:6 reads:

    “For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.” (Isaiah 9:6 NKJV)


    (1) THE “MIGHTY GOD” IS THE “EVERLASTING FATHER”

    We could clearly notice here that the “Mighty God” referred to is none other the “Everlasting Father” Himself. The words of the Lord Jesus Christ Himself prove that He is different from the “Father,” thus He is not the “Everlasting Father”:

    “You have heard Me say to you, 'I am going away and coming back to you.' If you loved Me, you would rejoice because I said, 'I am going to the Father,' for My Father is greater than I.” (John 14:28 NKJV)

    The “Mighty God” mentioned in Isaiah 9:6 is the “Everlasting Father.” The “Everlasting Father” is NOT the Lord Jesus Christ for He Himself declared that “My Father is greater than I.” Therefore, the Lord Jesus is not the “Mighty God” referred to in Isaiah 9:6.


    (2) JESUS CHRIST IS THE “SON” OF THE “MIGHTY GOD”

    Let us also take into consideration the biblical fact that the Lord Jesus Christ is “Son” of the Almighty God according to the “Everlasting Father” Himself:

    “When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” (Matthew 3:16-17 NKJV)

    The Bible explicitly declared that the Lord Jesus Christ is the “Son of the Living God”:

    “Simon Peter answered and said, ‘You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.’” (Matthew 16:16 NKJV)

    “You will be with child and give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus. He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David.” (Luke 1:31-32 NIV)

    If the Lord Jesus Christ is the “Mighty God” mentioned in Isaiah 9:6, but the Mighty God Himself declared that He has a Son (He Himself said, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased”), and the “Son” the Mighty God referring to is Jesus Christ (the Bible declared, “You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God”), then there will be two “Jesus” – the “Mighty God” and the “Son of the Mighty God.” Thus, it is wrong to say that Jesus is the “Mighty God mentioned in Isaiah 9:6.


    (3) THE “MIGHTY GOD” MENTIONED IS PART OF THE “ONE LONG NAME”

    Isaiah 9:6 said, “And HIS NAME will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.” The verse did not said, “And HE IS the Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of peace.”

    This rendering of Isaiah 9:6 seems that the verse mentions a series of names. However, it is evident that this is not a series of names but just one long name. Since Isaiah 9:6 was originally written in Hebrew, it would be of help to consult the Jewish Publication Society of America, for instance, on how it renders the verse:

    “For a child is born unto us. A son is given unto us; And the government is upon his shoulder; and his name is called Pele-joez-el-gibborabi-ad-sar-shalom.” (The Holy Scriptures According to the Masoretic Text, 1917 edition)

    The Hebrew name Pele- joez-el-gibbor-abi-ad-sar-shalom is translated in the footnote as, “Wonderful in counsel is God the Mighty, the everlasting Father, the Ruler of Peace.” The name mentioned in Isaiah 9:6 is not a series of names but one long name. This is the reason why other versions of the Bible translated the verse as follows:


    “For a child is born to us, a son is given to us; And the government will be upon his shoulders; and his name will be called ‘Wonderful Counselor is God Almighty, Father forever, Prince of Peace.” (Isaiah 9:6, Smith-Goodspeed)

    Because what Isaiah 9:6 actually said is “And HIS NAME will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace,” and not, “And HE IS the Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of peace,” thus, Isaiah 9:6 doesn’t prove that Christ is the “Mighty God” but that His name is called “Wonderful in counsel is God the Mighty, the everlasting Father, the Ruler of Peace.” The “Mighty God” mentioned in Isaiah 9:6 is just a part of the “one long name.”


    (4) ONE’S STATE OF BEING IS NOT BECESSARILY DETERMINE BY THE MEANING ATTACHED TO HIS NAME

    It is worthwhile to note that one's state of being is not necessarily determined by the meaning attached to his name, much less by the meaning of the title of the government or authority he holds.

    Simon the Apostle was named “Cephas” or “Peter” which means rock (John 142). However, it doesn’t mean that Peter is himself a “rock”.

    Moreover, the names Daniel (which means “God is my Judge”) and Elijah (“Yah is God”) both contain the word “God” in the meaning of their names, and the “God” in the meaning of their names refer to God Himself, but it doesn’t mean that these persons are “God.”

    Going back to Isaiah 9:6, this is how Jewish scholars in the book Jewish Study Bible, edited by Adele Berlin and Marc Zvi Betler, explain this verse:

    “The Mighty God…This long sentence is the throne name of the royal child. Semitic names often consists of sentences that describe God; thus the name Isaiah in Hebrew means, ‘The Lord saves’; Hezekiah, ‘The Lord strengthens’…these names do not describe that person who holds them but the god whom the parents worship. Similarly, the name in this v. [Isa. 9:6] does not describe that child or attribute divinity to him, contrary to classical Christian readings of this messianic verse.” (p. 802)

    Another scholar also testify that the “name” in Isaiah 9:6 is “but one which will be descriptive of his (Christ) office”:

    “This son is not to have a name which will be for a sign, like the names of Isaiah's sons (cf. 7.3; 8.1), but one which will be descriptive of his office.” (Isaiah 1-39, by John Mauchline, p. 113.)

    James Moffatt in his translation of the Bible, he rendered the “name” in Isaiah 9:6 as “title”:

    “For a child is born to us, a son is given to us; the royal dignity he wears, and this the title that he bears --
    “A wonder of counselor, a divine hero, A father for all time, a peaceful prince.” (Isaiah 9:6, Moffatt)

    Thus, it is clear that “Pele-joez-el-gibbor-abi-ad-sar-shalom” is the “name” or the “title” of the authority or government, and, as Jewish scholars put it, the “throne name” which “does not describe the child or attribute divinity to him” but, as another scholar puts it, “descriptive of his (Christ) office” given to Him by the Father (cf. Matt. 28:18; 11:27).


    CONCLUSION

    The verse Isaiah 9:6 indeed is a prophecy about the “Son,” our Lord Jesus Christ, but He is not the “Mighty God” referred to, nor does this prophecy indicate His alleged divinity because:

    (a) the “Mighty God” in Isaiah 9:6 is also the “Everlasting Father”, while the Lord Jesus Christ Himself explicitly said that “My Father is greater than I”; (b) the Bible explicitly said that Jesus Christ is the “Son of the Living God,” so if Jesus is the “Mighty God” in Isaiah 9:6, then there will be two “Jesus Christ” – the “Mighty God” and the “Son of the Mighty God”; (c) Isaiah 9:6 said, “And HIS NAME will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace,” and not, “And HE IS the Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of peace”; (d) the “Mighty God” mentioned in Isaiah 9:6 is just a part of the “one long name”; and (e) one's state of being is not necessarily determined by the meaning attached to his name, much less by the meaning of the title of the government or authority he holds.

    Thus, Isaiah 9:6 doesn’t prove that Christ is the “Mighty God” but that His “name” is called “Wonderful in counsel is God the Mighty, the everlasting Father, the Ruler of Peace,” the “title” of His authority or government as rendered by Moffatt, the “throne name” which “does not describe the child or attribute divinity to him”as Jewish scholars put it, and “descriptive of his (Christ) office” given to Him by the Father as another scholar puts it.
     
  15. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

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    Whatever bible translation you used does not make sense

    [​IMG]

    Sometimes if not often we should discern what makes sense and what doesn't

    upload_2019-9-7_11-46-59.jpeg
    Zechariah 12:9-10 Living Bible (TLB)
    For my plan is to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

    “Then I will pour out the spirit of grace and prayer on all the people of Jerusalem. They will look on him they pierced, and mourn for him as for an only son, and grieve bitterly for him as for an oldest child who died.





    Revelation 1:8 Living Bible (TLB)

    “I am the A and the Z, the Beginning and the Ending of all things,” says God, who is the Lord, the All Powerful One who is, and was, and is coming again!*

    is entirely different from

    Revelation 22:12-16 Living Bible (TLB)
    “See, I am coming soon,* and my reward is with me, to repay everyone according to the deeds he has done. I am the A and the Z, the Beginning and the End, the First and Last. Blessed forever are all who are washing their robes, to have the right to enter in through the gates of the city and to eat the fruit from the Tree of Life.

    “Outside the city are those who have strayed away from God, and the sorcerers and the immoral and murderers and idolaters, and all who love to lie, and do so.

    “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to you to tell the churches all these things. I am both David’s Root and his Descendant. I am the bright Morning Star.



    Revelation 1:8
    is about God while Revelation 22:12-16 refers to Jesus Christ
    Sure they are both Alpha and Omega
    God is the Beginning and the Ending of all things
    While Jesus is the Beginning and the End, the First and Last
    I do not believe they are the same at all.
    It is a dud.
    [​IMG]


    John 2:19 New International Version (NIV)
    Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”

    What did Jesus remind people when he is speaking?

    John 7:17 New International Version (NIV)
    Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.

    John 8:28 New International Version (NIV)
    So Jesus said, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me.

    John 12:49 New International Version (NIV)
    For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken.

    John 14:10 New International Version (NIV)
    Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.


    So when the Father told Jesus to speak and one of them is - “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”

    Jesus is a man because Jesus said he is a man
    Jesus is a man because his apostles preached that he is a man.
    I have nothing to do with that at all.
    But the truth is Jesus is not God
    Because your very Bible is shouting on its pages - Jesus is not God.

    [​IMG]

    And to prove that Jesus is different from God - is who raised who from the dead?
    Did Jesus on his own words say "I will bring myself back to life!"
    Or did the Father told him to say “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”
    Who raised who from the dead?

    Acts 2:24
    But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him.

    Acts 3:15
    You killed the author of life, but God raised him from the dead. We are witnesses of this.

    Acts 4:10
    then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed.

    Acts 5:30
    The God of our ancestors raised Jesus from the dead—whom you killed by hanging him on a cross.

    Acts 10:40
    but God raised him from the dead on the third day and caused him to be seen.

    Acts 13:30
    But God raised him from the dead,

    Acts 13:34
    God raised him from the dead so that he will never be subject to decay. As God has said, “‘I will give you the holy and sure blessings promised to David.’

    Acts 13:37
    But the one whom God raised from the dead did not see decay.

    Romans 4:24
    but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness—for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead.

    Romans 7:4
    So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God.

    Romans 10:9
    If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

    1 Corinthians 6:14
    By his power God raised the Lord from the dead, and he will raise us also.

    1 Corinthians 15:15
    More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised.

    Galatians 1:1
    Paul, an apostle—sent not from men nor by a man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead—

    Colossians 2:12
    having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.

    1 Peter 1:21
    Through him you believe in God, who raised him from the dead and glorified him, and so your faith and hope are in God.


    16 verses saying God the Father, who raised the Lord Jesus Christ from the dead—
    we could even check how many times in the Bible which says Jesus is seated at the right hand of God

    [​IMG]
     
  16. j1i

    j1i Smiling is charity without giving money

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    I opened the topic to get answers
    Not to answer

    Tell me again what the questions are and I will answer you in detail

    can you ask me agian
     
  17. leov

    leov Well-Known Member

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    We, people who capable learning good and evil, are expected to stop evil. By following the Golden Rule. That is the message. Christ is the force of good in each of us. Our ego must employ Christ to cure evil. This is the only narrow way to enter the Kingdom. It a slow process, individual by individual.
     
  18. j1i

    j1i Smiling is charity without giving money

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    i hope that i'm answer
    i really want understand trinity

    Do you want to me bring to you quotes that show that Jesus is a creature not fully capable of being God?

    If he is deficient in power, then why be God?

    What distinguishes God is that he is full of power

    The lack of possibilities, or acquiescence to the will of the father, does not mean that he is God, because at least God has the right to do things or choose
    I can not understand how God is then the Son and then the Son can not then the Father wants
    There are two separate wills that affect the second and this is proof that the two characters are separate
    Let us suppose that he came to atone for sins, but as a human being

    Is there anything in the gospel that says that Jesus is the Lord and serve me? From old versions of gospel
    The new versions have been revised and have been frequently tampered with to suit extraneous ideas

    with respect brother
    god bless you
    hug

    We are brothers who carry human and emotional feelings and we want to love the good of all
    I'm not here to share the abuse
    I want to understand the nature and faith of others
    I want to be a nice friend, caring and harmless :)
     
  19. j1i

    j1i Smiling is charity without giving money

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    thanks for replay dude
    i hope that my replay dont hurt

    you says that Jesus is not God But be worshiped
    So you want to say that I may worship creatures other than God?
    Worship is only for god
    No contradiction me of this

    You are the one who wants to put a contradictory idea to incorporate your convictions of not the divinity of Christ and then to satisfy the traditional church and say worshiped

    Islam says clearly in the Qur'an
    Christ was not crucified
    But the traitor, it is God who likened him
    They thought it was Jesus

    Muhammad is a prophet who is present in the Bible and the Torah
    Mohammadem
    This is what you will find in YouTube and I do not want to attach videos just write
    Muhammad in the gospel and in the Bible

    In the end
    I do not worship a man that may fart (extreme I apologise but this is truth)
    I don't want to worship a man who eats French fries
    I don't want to worship a creature that lives on the planet
    The planet orbits around the sun
    I don't want a magnetically controlled god with great sun power
    You are pushing me to worship the sun because it illuminates the light of Jesus
    Jesus is a human condition that needs light in order to see

    with respect
     
  20. TrueBeliever37

    TrueBeliever37 Well-Known Member

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    Wow what a wall of words and yet still no answer as to how he was before Abraham or how he was the root of David. Revelation 22:16

    Abraham lived and died long before the Messiah was born. So explain how the Messiah you claim is only a man could say he was before Abraham. He also said Abraham rejoiced to see his day. John 8:56-59
     
    #140 TrueBeliever37, Sep 7, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2019
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