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Why jesus curse and stop the fig then he can't stop the devil sabotage activity

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
A ridiculous post. Telling someone to go read is NOT providing proof.
What do you think would constitute "proof?" There is no "proof" for theological constructs. Either one buys it or one doesn't. Since, historically, theology is created by theologians (for example, Teilhard de Chardin, Meister Eckhart, Ireneaus, Pelagius) and agreed upon by the church if it also agrees with tradition and the bible, these theologians and the bible are all we have. What more "proof" is there to be had? When the eunuch was baptized, he didn't say, "Prove it!" In fact, when Herod wanted Jesus to prove his authority, Jesus had nothing.

"Proof" in this context is a red herring. Providing ample resources of time-honored and well-respected church leaders and theologians, and the bible, is the best way to go.

Surely a "true believer" would avail her or himself of all such resources in matters of faith and theology?
 

j1i

Smiling is charity without giving money
I really don't understand what you are trying to say:

Are you saying that God is not God because Satan is still working on this planet?

You said it: "Jesus is not the Father." That's what the doctrine says, too. Yet you disagree with the Trinity.


Interesting.

I disagree.

I did not notice any weakness in your misunderstanding.



I did not know Satan does fig trees.



Quite a few Christians believe He is divine.



That is a non sequitur. Since the devil still exists, allegedly, I could infer that whatever you believe in is not God, either.



Thank you. Took a note of it. BTW, Jesus is not on the planet anymore, apparently.



Her?


It depends how many of them you eat.


I love believers, too. I just hate the belief.



Sure.

Ciao

- viole




Thank you very much for participating
I benefited a lot and read a lot
I love Jesus very much and His pure mother, untouched by any man's hand
The pure woman of the children of Israel, whom God said that she is the master lady of the women of the worlds

But I want to start my opinion on Jesus and I will consider this as my last response with all respect
I do not mean to write out of humiliation or inconvenience or disregard
I am serious and love Christians and pray to God to show us all the way of truth

This is my point of view and I hope you have mercy on my opinion


I don't want to worship God eating food
God does not need food because food is for living things
Imagine that the plant speaks and has a tongue that humans understand
What would it say ?

for example (wheat)
I fed God.
God was hungry on this planet, and I gave him out of my bread
Orange fruit will say : I have eaten God of my fruit, I am God, who feeds God
banana fruit will say: im more important, i fed god much banana, he loves banana, so i'm the totaly god

This is incompatible with the foundational curriculum to understand the vital ecological balance and sequence

How many fruits, how many woods, how many clothes, how many holes, and how many liquids Jesus used

Imagine you go to heaven to give God an apple or any fruit and return to earth to say that you fed God?

I don't want to believe it

Let the sacred books aside from the writings of human beings according to their desires and ideas and how they are also influenced by other cultures

People are influenced by other cultures like the incarnation of God,
It was the key to the Baha'i exodus and some religions that believed in the incarnation of God.

This is what Satan planned to be at the end of time a god who rules the world on earth as a true God

I believe that the Trinity is a satanic idea that eventually leads people to believe in Satan as God

God will come down Jesus to end the way of astray and lie to him

But Christians are deceived
They did not deliberately lie to Jesus because they believed the Bible was true
Means that a Christian who practices Christianity and believes that Jesus is the Son of God and practices religion truthfully with God
I do not know how his fate will be but on the Day of Judgment
God will say to Jesus
Have you told people that you are God?
He will say I did not say that and you are the neighborhood that you are watching events

with respect for all
GOD bless you all brother
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Thank you very much for participating
I benefited a lot and read a lot
I love Jesus very much and His pure mother, untouched by any man's hand
The pure woman of the children of Israel, whom God said that she is the master lady of the women of the worlds

But I want to start my opinion on Jesus and I will consider this as my last response with all respect
I do not mean to write out of humiliation or inconvenience or disregard
I am serious and love Christians and pray to God to show us all the way of truth

This is my point of view and I hope you have mercy on my opinion


I don't want to worship God eating food
God does not need food because food is for living things
Imagine that the plant speaks and has a tongue that humans understand
What would it say ?

for example (wheat)
I fed God.
God was hungry on this planet, and I gave him out of my bread
Orange fruit will say : I have eaten God of my fruit, I am God, who feeds God
banana fruit will say: im more important, i fed god much banana, he loves banana, so i'm the totaly god

This is incompatible with the foundational curriculum to understand the vital ecological balance and sequence

How many fruits, how many woods, how many clothes, how many holes, and how many liquids Jesus used

Imagine you go to heaven to give God an apple or any fruit and return to earth to say that you fed God?

I don't want to believe it

Let the sacred books aside from the writings of human beings according to their desires and ideas and how they are also influenced by other cultures

People are influenced by other cultures like the incarnation of God,
It was the key to the Baha'i exodus and some religions that believed in the incarnation of God.

This is what Satan planned to be at the end of time a god who rules the world on earth as a true God

I believe that the Trinity is a satanic idea that eventually leads people to believe in Satan as God

God will come down Jesus to end the way of astray and lie to him

But Christians are deceived
They did not deliberately lie to Jesus because they believed the Bible was true
Means that a Christian who practices Christianity and believes that Jesus is the Son of God and practices religion truthfully with God
I do not know how his fate will be but on the Day of Judgment
God will say to Jesus
Have you told people that you are God?
He will say I did not say that and you are the neighborhood that you are watching events

with respect for all
GOD bless you all brother
1) I don't think you answered my question. Since Satan was around during Jesus, is God not God because Satan and evil was still around?
2) I have no problem with you believing different.
3) It is apparent that you don't understand why Christians believe The Word (God) was made flesh. And that is OK
4) Jesus not only told his disciples that he was God, but let them worship him, let them say he was God and some Jewish people wanted to kill him because he said he was God.
 

j1i

Smiling is charity without giving money
1) I don't think you answered my question. Since Satan was around during Jesus, is God not God because Satan and evil was still around?
2) I have no problem with you believing different.
3) It is apparent that you don't understand why Christians believe The Word (God) was made flesh. And that is OK
4) Jesus not only told his disciples that he was God, but let them worship him, let them say he was God and some Jewish people wanted to kill him because he said he was God.


When we see strange things we say alien creatures too
The fact that people are rumored and often circulated was only a rumor from someone who showed signs of anxiety and fear

Then accumulated and became many as a fact

Just as soon as a video is recorded in a US light or strange movement is thought to be alien creatures
All the media circulates the news as an important event, knowing that it was only the outcome of military experiments or optical illusions

Jesus came to the world as a teacher and to call for the message of God.
There are evil spirits who were reciting Jesus' call to believe in God

But there were evil spirits who wanted to change the course of Jesus' message

There is a change in the message agendas, posthumously


I believe that evil comes from within because we may eat from theft, forbidden and non immaculate earnings, and from outside as a reaction to our sins.

devil is a living being and we see it in horror films with spirits that come to play an evil role

Why do we deny it now?

I will bring verses from the Gospel and the Torah showing that there is a independent living being tempting man to do sins from outside his body

Christianity describes devil as a fallen angel who terrorizes the world
Why did Jesus not stop him?

devil described[attribution needed] as hating all humanity (or more accurately creation), opposing God, spreading lies and wreaking havoc on their souls.

why this devil still active

Did you know that someone uses black magic
There are evil spirits
Why Black Magic is still active today
We leave internal evil in our bodies for testing
But I mean the external effects of human destruction

If Jesus was truly God
To really stop it
But he has no ability to do so
That's what I'm seeing
 

sooda

Veteran Member
When we see strange things we say alien creatures too
The fact that people are rumored and often circulated was only a rumor from someone who showed signs of anxiety and fear

Then accumulated and became many as a fact

Just as soon as a video is recorded in a US light or strange movement is thought to be alien creatures
All the media circulates the news as an important event, knowing that it was only the outcome of military experiments or optical illusions

Jesus came to the world as a teacher and to call for the message of God.
There are evil spirits who were reciting Jesus' call to believe in God

But there were evil spirits who wanted to change the course of Jesus' message

There is a change in the message agendas, posthumously


I believe that evil comes from within because we may eat from theft, forbidden and non immaculate earnings, and from outside as a reaction to our sins.

devil is a living being and we see it in horror films with spirits that come to play an evil role

Why do we deny it now?

I will bring verses from the Gospel and the Torah showing that there is a independent living being tempting man to do sins from outside his body

Christianity describes devil as a fallen angel who terrorizes the world
Why did Jesus not stop him?

devil described[attribution needed] as hating all humanity (or more accurately creation), opposing God, spreading lies and wreaking havoc on their souls.

why this devil still active

Did you know that someone uses black magic
There are evil spirits
Why Black Magic is still active today
We leave internal evil in our bodies for testing
But I mean the external effects of human destruction

If Jesus was truly God
To really stop it
But he has no ability to do so
That's what I'm seeing

Jesus came for the lost sheep of Israel.. Meaning he didn't come for the Jews of Judah. Judah had a lot of animosity towards Israel because they were more prosperous and becoming Hellenized.

Kingdoms_of_Israel_and_Judah.png
 

j1i

Smiling is charity without giving money
Jesus came for the lost sheep of Israel.. Meaning he didn't come for the Jews of Judah. Judah had a lot of animosity towards Israel because they were more prosperous and becoming Hellenized.

Kingdoms_of_Israel_and_Judah.png




What made him a divine figure?
What Jesus has done can be done by a human being
David killed Goliath and entered Palestine and did a heroic and mighty job thanks to God
Why Jesus not be the role of the epic god
He's a prophet but he was betrayed
There is no religious book before Christianity, speaking of crucifixion for the atonement of sins
Let's be clear

There is no sign or culture influenced by this notion of crucifixion and atonement for sins
If there were cultures before Christianity that conformed to the same method of atoning for sins, I could believe
But this idea is the birth of Christianity in particular (exclusive)
 

sooda

Veteran Member
What made him a divine figure?
What Jesus has done can be done by a human being
David killed Goliath and entered Palestine and did a heroic and mighty job thanks to God
Why Jesus not be the role of the epic god
He's a prophet but he was betrayed
There is no religious book before Christianity, speaking of crucifixion for the atonement of sins
Let's be clear

There is no sign or culture influenced by this notion of crucifixion and atonement for sins
If there were cultures before Christianity that conformed to the same method of atoning for sins, I could believe
But this idea is the birth of Christianity in particular (exclusive)

Yom Kippur?

There is atonement before Jesus.

Atonement in Judaism - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kapparah
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
What made him a divine figure?
What Jesus has done can be done by a human being
David killed Goliath and entered Palestine and did a heroic and mighty job thanks to God
Why Jesus not be the role of the epic god
He's a prophet but he was betrayed
There is no religious book before Christianity, speaking of crucifixion for the atonement of sins
Let's be clear

There is no sign or culture influenced by this notion of crucifixion and atonement for sins
If there were cultures before Christianity that conformed to the same method of atoning for sins, I could believe
But this idea is the birth of Christianity in particular (exclusive)
Jesus was fully human; what do you think he should have done "out of the ordinary" (other than being also fully Divine and effecting resurrection)?

I don't buy into Substitutionary Atonement. Sacrificial atonement was part of Temple Judaism. But Jesus wasn't sacrificed as an atonement for our sin. Jesus was crucified by an act of state terrorism. The cross shows us nothing more or less than the cost of love.
 

TrueBeliever37

Well-Known Member
What do you think would constitute "proof?" There is no "proof" for theological constructs. Either one buys it or one doesn't. Since, historically, theology is created by theologians (for example, Teilhard de Chardin, Meister Eckhart, Ireneaus, Pelagius) and agreed upon by the church if it also agrees with tradition and the bible, these theologians and the bible are all we have. What more "proof" is there to be had? When the eunuch was baptized, he didn't say, "Prove it!" In fact, when Herod wanted Jesus to prove his authority, Jesus had nothing.

"Proof" in this context is a red herring. Providing ample resources of time-honored and well-respected church leaders and theologians, and the bible, is the best way to go.

Surely a "true believer" would avail her or himself of all such resources in matters of faith and theology?

Proof would consist of providing scriptures to back what you say. Not just saying go Read. I'm not interested in what so called church fathers think. I think we are finished - unless you want to have an honest back and forth debate.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Proof would consist of providing scriptures to back what you say. Not just saying go Read. I'm not interested in what so called church fathers think. I think we are finished - unless you want to have an honest back and forth debate.
For me, an "honest, back and forth" would necessarily include theologians, Church Fathers, etc. I don't subscribe to the sola scriptura heresy.
 

leov

Well-Known Member
I hope everyone will forgive me for my weakness in misunderstanding

We know Satan is doing much more dangerous things than fig tree

I think Jesus does not have the power to stop devil

Because stopping devil is divine and not human

This is beyond the power of Jesus, and this is a sign that He is not God

I want to send a message to everyone that all the holy personalities on the planet could not stop evil

Just come to act as her representative and then disappear from existence

the question
Does this mean that the fig is more evil than devil

I love Jesus and Christians very much
I wanted to be inspired by a beautiful dialogue in a way that is affectionate and compassionate

with respect
This explains mystery of the curse: The Temple Sleep
 

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
The Father manifest himself in the flesh. Or you could say God appeared in a body. The Father is the eternal Spirit, and the Son is the fleshly body he took on. It is not two different persons, it is flesh and Spirit. The Father was dwelling in the Son. Or you could say the Spirit was dwelling in the fleshly body. The Son is not the Father, since the flesh is not the Spirit. But the Messiah was still YHWH dwelling in a fleshly body. As he said I and my Father are one, and if you have seen me you have seen the Father. John 14:7-9

Question

Jesus said “He who has seen Me has seen the Father…” (John 14:9b, NASB). Thus, Jesus Christ is God.


ANSWER:


The verses followed John 14:9 explained why Jesus said “He who has seen Me has seen the Father.” Let us first quote verses 7-8 the we continue up to verse 11:

John 14:7-11 NIV
“If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us." Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves.”

images


Philip the Apostle asked Jesus to show them the Father. He answered Philip, “Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father.” The verses that followed explained why Jesus said “He who has seen Me has seen the Father.” He said, “How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me?”

Jesus said that “He who has seen Me has seen the Father” not because Jesus is the Father, but because He is in the Father and the Father is in Him. Also, when Jesus said “It is the Father living in me, who is doing His work” also further explains why He said “he who has seen Me has seen the Father.”

Who has seen Jesus has seen the Father, not because Jesus is the Father, that Jesus is God, but because the Father is in Him, the Father is living in Him, and the Father is doing His work in Him. Why did the Lord Jesus said that the Father is doing His work in Him? Apostle Peter explained this:

Acts 2:22 TEV
“Listen to these words, fellow Israelites! Jesus of Nazareth was a man whose divine authority was clearly proven to you by all the miracles and wonders which God performed through him. You yourselves know this, for it happened here among you.”

images


The Father is doing His work in Jesus because the Father (God) performed many miracles, wonders and signs THROUGH Jesus Christ. Thus, this is the reason why Jesus said that “He who has seen Me has seen the Father.” Because the miracles, wonders and signs seen in Christ, it is God who performed it through Him. Indeed, the Bible attests that the invisible God can be seen through the things He made:

Romans 1:20 TEV
“Ever since God created the world, his invisible qualities, both his eternal power and his divine nature, have been clearly seen; they are perceived in the things that God has made. So those people have no excuse at all!”

God did many miracles, signs and wonders THROUGH Jesus Christ. Thus, when Philip asked Jesus to show them the Father, He replied “Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me?…it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.”
 

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
The Messiah was a man, but if he was just a man - how was he before Abraham? How was he the root of David? How did he create everything? Colossians 1:16

Question:

Does Colossians 1:16 teach that the Lord Jesus Christ created all things? The verse clearly said, “For by him all things were created…all things were created by him and for him” (Col. 1:16 NIV)

upload_2019-9-6_8-10-26.jpeg



ANSWER:


Nowhere in the verse that says “Christ is God” and “Jesus created all things.” What the verse actually said:

“For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.” (Col. 1:16 NIV)

It is only the interpretation of those who believe that Jesus is God that this verse teaches that “Jesus created all things.” According to their interpretation, the phrase “For by him all things were created” means that “Jesus Christ created all things.”

However, their interpretation contradicts the teachings of the Bible. The Bible explicitly tells us who is the God who created all things. In Isaiah 45:18, this is what we could read:

“For thus says Yahweh who created the heavens, the God who formed the earth and made it, who established it and didn't create it a waste, who formed it to be inhabited: I am Yahweh; and there is no one else.” (Isa 45:18 World English Bible)

The Bible clearly said that the God “who created the heavens…who formed the earth and made it” is “Yahweh.” And the Bible also made explicit proclamation if who “Yahweh” is. In Exodus 3:15 this is what “Yahweh” said about Himself:

“God said moreover to Moses, ‘You shall tell the children of Israel this, 'Yahweh, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is my name forever, and this is my memorial to all generations.” (Ex 3:15 WEB)

God said to Moses, “You shall tell the children of Israel this, ‘Yahweh, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob." Thus, the God who created the heavens and formed the earth is the “God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.” The Bible has explicit declaration that clearly proves the Lord Jesus Christ is not the “God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.” this is what the Bible says about Jesus:

“The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, glorified His Servant Jesus, whom you delivered up and denied in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let Him go.” (Acts 3:13 NKJV)

It is clear in the Bible that the Lord Jesus is the Servant of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Thus, those who say that Jesus is the God who created all things contradict the teachings of the Bible that the God who created everything, who made the heavens and the earth, is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and the Lord Jesus is His Servant.

“For in him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and unto him.” (Colossians 1:16 ASV)

“For IN him were all things created” is much appropriate rendition of the first part of Colossians 1:16 than “For BY him all things were created.”
What does “for in him were all things created” means? The last part of colossians 1:16 explains this. The last part of the verse said, “all things have been created through him, and unto him.” Take note of the difference between NIV and ASV.

NIV (and also KJV) rendered the last part as “all things were created BY him and for him.” While ASV rendered it as “all things have been created THROUGH him, and unto him.”

Thus, Colossians 1:16 does not teach that Christ created all things, but that all things were made through Him and for Him “as an intermediate agent” or as the mediator between God and man.
 

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
Remember YHWH said he was the one that made all things, and he said he was alone and by himself. Isaiah 44:24

Isaiah 44:24 New International Version (NIV)
“This is what the Lord says
your Redeemer, who formed you in the womb:

I am the Lord,
the Maker of all things,
who stretches out the heavens,
who spreads out the earth by myself,

upload_2019-9-6_8-25-38.jpeg


The Lord did not say "ourselves" am I correct?
The Lord said "myself" denoting that he was alone
It does not denote plurality but singular in grammar.

This proves that the Lord God was alone when he made all things.
Isaiah mentions "the Lord" - is it the Son??? is it Jesus Christ???
From the same book of Isaiah it identifies who the Lord is:

Isaiah 64:8 New International Version (NIV)
Yet you, Lord, are our Father.
We are the clay, you are the potter;
we are all the work of your hand.

The prophet Isaiah identifies the Lord he mentioned as the Father
not the Son and neither the Holy Spirit
Let us check again for good measure who the Lord mentioned by Isaiah truly is

Isaiah 63:16 New International Version (NIV)
But you are our Father,
though Abraham does not know us
or Israel acknowledge us;
you, Lord, are our Father,
our Redeemer from of old is your name.

Jesus is the Son and not the Father
Jesus is the Son of God and not God
 

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
You said it: "Jesus is not the Father." That's what the doctrine says, too. Yet you disagree with the Trinity.


Interesting.

You remind me of this funny picture

Blind-Man-and-the-Elephant.jpg


Jesus Christ was born Matthew 2:1
The Father wasn't born Psalm 93:2

Jesus Christ is a man John 8:40
The Father is a spirit John John 4:24

Jesus Christ is not God because he said so:

John 17:1-3 New King James Version (NKJV)
Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

Ergo: Jesus is not the Father. The Father is the only true God.
 
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