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Why jesus curse and stop the fig then he can't stop the devil sabotage activity

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Everything that needed to be done to make us acceptable to God was done in our favor by Christ
Nothing needs to be done. We already ARE acceptable to God.

Repentance simply means to turn to salvation and accept it.
No, I’m afraid it means much more than that.

You are beginning to more and more sound like a universilist, God saves everyone. That is a flat out lie.
Good! I’m glad I do, because that’s precisely my stance. And it’s not a lie. What IS a lie is that God will not or cannot heal humanity into the wholeness that is our birthright.

Love does not trump justice, or free will.
Love trumps everything. It’s the sort of false narrative of division, such as I read from you that is so contrary to deep, Christian wisdom.
 

shmogie

Well-Known Member
The doctrine of substitutionary atonement is a crock. It has done so much harm to the Body of Christ. Sin is not our nature and does not require blood in order to make amends.

The cross isn’t about atonement. It’s an illustration of our true nature of a love that demands our entire being.
LOl ! Here we have one who in one fell swoop rejects the Jewish sacrificial system as pointing forward to Christś ultimate sacrifice, who rejects the Apostles, who rejects the words of Christ, and the finest theological minds that have ever existed.

Apparently God loves sin, or our friend is sinless. Both are totally impossible.

What a very strange and warped view of Christianity.
 

shmogie

Well-Known Member
Nothing needs to be done. We already ARE acceptable to God.


No, I’m afraid it means much more than that.


Good! I’m glad I do, because that’s precisely my stance. And it’s not a lie. What IS a lie is that God will not or cannot heal humanity into the wholeness that is our birthright.


Love trumps everything. It’s the sort of false narrative of division, such as I read from you that is so contrary to deep, Christian wisdom.
Then you just believe as you choose. There is a heretic in our conversation, but he isn´ me.

God will sort it out in the end, and take into consideration your deep Christian wisdom, deeper than Paul´s, deeper than Luther´s, heck, even deeper than Christś.

It has been interesting.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
LOl ! Here we have one who in one fell swoop rejects the Jewish sacrificial system as pointing forward to Christś ultimate sacrifice, who rejects the Apostles, who rejects the words of Christ, and the finest theological minds that have ever existed.

Apparently God loves sin, or our friend is sinless. Both are totally impossible.

What a very strange and warped view of Christianity.
Except that Christ’s ultimate sacrifice isn’t to appease a bloodthirsty God. This is where Xy takes a radical turn from Temple Judaism.

Aelred of Rievaulx said that God is not our judge, but our lover. Judgment has no power to profoundly change us. It can frighten, it can inhibit, nut it can’t change us. Only love is transformational. God is Lover, longing for union, rather than a Judge, demanding union. Therefore, Christ is Companion of our soul, not ransom for our soul.

The doctrine of Substitutionary Atonement is opposed to our experiences of forgiveness, and it perpetuates the notion that what is at the heart of God is judgment, not love. Judgment must be satisfied before love can be offered.
 

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
Peurile nonsense.

Want proof? Read your Bible. Read the Desert Fathers. Read Teilhard de Chardin. Read Irenaeus. Read Pelagius. Read Meister Eckhart.

tenor.gif


THE LORD JESUS Christ is not God because the Bible explicitly teaches that the Father alone is the true God and the Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of the One True God.


THE FATHER IS THE ONE TRUE GOD

The Lord Jesus Christ Himself clearly said that the Father is the only true God:

“Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You…
“And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.” (John 17:1, 3, NKJV)

Even Apostle Paul also explicitly said that the Father alone is the rue God:

“Yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.” (I Corinthians 8:6, NKJV)


GOD IS THE FATHER OF JESUS CHRIST

The apostles explicitly wrote that the true God is the God and Father of the Lord Jesus Christ:

“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort.” (II Corinthians 1:3 NKJV)

“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ.” Ephesians 1:3 NKJV

“Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ” (Philippians 1:2 NKJV)

“To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ who are in Colosse: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. We give thanks to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you.” (Colossians 1:2-3 NKJV)

“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.” (I Peter 1:3 NKJV)

This is what the apostles taught and wrote because this is what they heard from the Lord Jesus Christ Himself:

“Jesus said to her, ‘Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.'” (John 20:17 NKJV)


JESUS IS THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD

The Bible did not only clearly stated that the Father alone is the one true God, but also explicitly pronounced that the Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of the Living God:

“Simon Peter answered and said, ‘You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.’” (Matthew 16:16 NKJV)

The Bible also explicitly tells us that the Son of God is a man:

“So when the centurion, who stood opposite Him, saw that He cried out like this and breathed His last, he said, ‘Truly this Man was the Son of God!’” (Mark 15:39 NKJV)

As the Son of God, Jesus Himself tells us that His Father is greater than Him:

“You have heard Me say to you, 'I am going away and coming back to you.' If you loved Me, you would rejoice because I said, 'I am going to the Father,' for My Father is greater than I.” (John 14:28 NKJV)

The One True God Himself proclaimed that Jesus is His Son:

“When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, ‘This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.’” (Matthew 3:16-17 NKJV)

However, God Himself also proclaimed that his Son, the Son of God, is a man:

“I still did not know that he was the one, but God, who sent me to baptize with water, had said to me, ‘You will see the Spirit come down and stay on a man; he is the one who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’ ‘I have seen it,’ said John, ‘and I tell you that he is the Son of God.’ The next day John was standing there again with two of his disciples, when he saw Jesus walking by. ‘There is the Lamb of God!’ he said.” (John 1:33-36 TEV)

God Himself said to John the Baptist, “You will see the Spirit come down and stay on A MAN; he is the one who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.” John the Baptist testified that the One referred to by God in His words saying “the Spirit come down and stay on A MAN; he is the one who baptizes with the Holy Spirit” was the “Son of God,” the Lord Jesus.


CONCLUSION

Thus, the Lord Jesus Christ is not God because His Father is the only true God. Hence, when we say that Jesus is not God, we only mean that the Lord Jesus Christ is not the Father (the One True God), but the Son of the One True God.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Then you just believe as you choose. There is a heretic in our conversation, but he isn´ me.

God will sort it out in the end, and take into consideration your deep Christian wisdom, deeper than Paul´s, deeper than Luther´s, heck, even deeper than Christś.

It has been interesting.
Sad. Just sad.
 

shmogie

Well-Known Member
Except that Christ’s ultimate sacrifice isn’t to appease a bloodthirsty God. This is where Xy takes a radical turn from Temple Judaism.

Aelred of Rievaulx said that God is not our judge, but our lover. Judgment has no power to profoundly change us. It can frighten, it can inhibit, nut it can’t change us. Only love is transformational. God is Lover, longing for union, rather than a Judge, demanding union. Therefore, Christ is Companion of our soul, not ransom for our soul.

The doctrine of Substitutionary Atonement is opposed to our experiences of forgiveness, and it perpetuates the notion that what is at the heart of God is judgment, not love. Judgment must be satisfied before love can be offered.
Judgement comes at the end. Once one is justified, declared positionally innocent of sin, sanctification begins, that is the actual empowering of one through the Spirit to begin battling sin in ones life.

We are declared righteous, we are justified before God, we are saved. Sanctification begins as a result of salvation, not to earn it.

Love cannot overpower justice. They are both equally important to God. God wants to save us from our sin, not wallowing in it.

God demands absolutely nothing from us. He gives us everything we need.

Christ said one path is wide and easy, God will save us all.

The other is narrow and difficult, God saves those who this that path.

Those who walk the wide path are cast away, Christ said he will not know them.
 

syo

Well-Known Member
We know Satan is doing much more dangerous things than fig tree
the only ''dangerous'' thing Satan does is bringing temptation. if we fall in the temptation, we do evil, not Satan. we are responsible for our own actions because we are the ones who take the ultimate decisions. satan is an angel of God and he is not evil. he is temptation. temptation leads to evil only if humans decide to fall for it.
 

TrueBeliever37

Well-Known Member
tenor.gif


THE LORD JESUS Christ is not God because the Bible explicitly teaches that the Father alone is the true God and the Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of the One True God.


THE FATHER IS THE ONE TRUE GOD

The Lord Jesus Christ Himself clearly said that the Father is the only true God:

“Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You…
“And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.” (John 17:1, 3, NKJV)

Even Apostle Paul also explicitly said that the Father alone is the rue God:

“Yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.” (I Corinthians 8:6, NKJV)


GOD IS THE FATHER OF JESUS CHRIST

The apostles explicitly wrote that the true God is the God and Father of the Lord Jesus Christ:

“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort.” (II Corinthians 1:3 NKJV)

“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ.” Ephesians 1:3 NKJV

“Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ” (Philippians 1:2 NKJV)

“To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ who are in Colosse: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. We give thanks to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you.” (Colossians 1:2-3 NKJV)

“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.” (I Peter 1:3 NKJV)

This is what the apostles taught and wrote because this is what they heard from the Lord Jesus Christ Himself:

“Jesus said to her, ‘Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.'” (John 20:17 NKJV)


JESUS IS THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD

The Bible did not only clearly stated that the Father alone is the one true God, but also explicitly pronounced that the Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of the Living God:

“Simon Peter answered and said, ‘You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.’” (Matthew 16:16 NKJV)

The Bible also explicitly tells us that the Son of God is a man:

“So when the centurion, who stood opposite Him, saw that He cried out like this and breathed His last, he said, ‘Truly this Man was the Son of God!’” (Mark 15:39 NKJV)

As the Son of God, Jesus Himself tells us that His Father is greater than Him:

“You have heard Me say to you, 'I am going away and coming back to you.' If you loved Me, you would rejoice because I said, 'I am going to the Father,' for My Father is greater than I.” (John 14:28 NKJV)

The One True God Himself proclaimed that Jesus is His Son:

“When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, ‘This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.’” (Matthew 3:16-17 NKJV)

However, God Himself also proclaimed that his Son, the Son of God, is a man:

“I still did not know that he was the one, but God, who sent me to baptize with water, had said to me, ‘You will see the Spirit come down and stay on a man; he is the one who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’ ‘I have seen it,’ said John, ‘and I tell you that he is the Son of God.’ The next day John was standing there again with two of his disciples, when he saw Jesus walking by. ‘There is the Lamb of God!’ he said.” (John 1:33-36 TEV)

God Himself said to John the Baptist, “You will see the Spirit come down and stay on A MAN; he is the one who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.” John the Baptist testified that the One referred to by God in His words saying “the Spirit come down and stay on A MAN; he is the one who baptizes with the Holy Spirit” was the “Son of God,” the Lord Jesus.


CONCLUSION

Thus, the Lord Jesus Christ is not God because His Father is the only true God. Hence, when we say that Jesus is not God, we only mean that the Lord Jesus Christ is not the Father (the One True God), but the Son of the One True God.

The Father manifest himself in the flesh. Or you could say God appeared in a body. The Father is the eternal Spirit, and the Son is the fleshly body he took on. It is not two different persons, it is flesh and Spirit. The Father was dwelling in the Son. Or you could say the Spirit was dwelling in the fleshly body. The Son is not the Father, since the flesh is not the Spirit. But the Messiah was still YHWH dwelling in a fleshly body. As he said I and my Father are one, and if you have seen me you have seen the Father. John 14:7-9

The Messiah was a man, but if he was just a man - how was he before Abraham? How was he the root of David? How did he create everything? Colossians 1:16

Remember YHWH said he was the one that made all things, and he said he was alone and by himself. Isaiah 44:24

Summary: The Messiah was YHWH manifest in the flesh. That means he was God, dwelling in a fleshly body.
 
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Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
I hope everyone will forgive me for my weakness in misunderstanding

We know Satan is doing much more dangerous things than fig tree

I think Jesus does not have the power to stop devil

Because stopping devil is divine and not human

This is beyond the power of Jesus, and this is a sign that He is not God

I want to send a message to everyone that all the holy personalities on the planet could not stop evil

Just come to act as her representative and then disappear from existence

the question
Does this mean that the fig is more evil than devil

I love Jesus and Christians very much
I wanted to be inspired by a beautiful dialogue in a way that is affectionate and compassionate

with respect and love :hugehug:


I really don't understand what you are trying to say:

Are you saying that God is not God because Satan is still working on this planet?
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Judgement comes at the end. Once one is justified, declared positionally innocent of sin, sanctification begins, that is the actual empowering of one through the Spirit to begin battling sin in ones life.

We are declared righteous, we are justified before God, we are saved. Sanctification begins as a result of salvation, not to earn it.

Love cannot overpower justice. They are both equally important to God. God wants to save us from our sin, not wallowing in it.

God demands absolutely nothing from us. He gives us everything we need.

Christ said one path is wide and easy, God will save us all.

The other is narrow and difficult, God saves those who this that path.

Those who walk the wide path are cast away, Christ said he will not know them.
I disagree.
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
I hope everyone will forgive me for my weakness in misunderstanding

I did not notice any weakness in your misunderstanding.

We know Satan is doing much more dangerous things than fig tree

I did not know Satan does fig trees.

I think Jesus does not have the power to stop devil
Because stopping devil is divine and not human

Quite a few Christians believe He is divine.

This is beyond the power of Jesus, and this is a sign that He is not God

That is a non sequitur. Since the devil still exists, allegedly, I could infer that whatever you believe in is not God, either.

I want to send a message to everyone that all the holy personalities on the planet could not stop evil

Thank you. Took a note of it. BTW, Jesus is not on the planet anymore, apparently.

Just come to act as her representative and then disappear from existence

Her?

the question
Does this mean that the fig is more evil than devil
It depends how many of them you eat.

I love Jesus and Christians very much
I wanted to be inspired by a beautiful dialogue in a way that is affectionate and compassionate
I love believers, too. I just hate the belief.

with respect and love :hugehug:

Sure.

Ciao

- viole
 
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