Why isn't Israel a monarchy?

[Eddi]

I have a question about something that occurred to me, that perhaps a Jewish person may be able to answer?

There’s something I don’t quite understand…

So, the Jewish people are awaiting the coming of their Messiah…

And as I understand it, according to Judaism The Jewish Messiah will be a king (?)

(Or is this understanding mistaken?)

And yet Israel is a republic

If the Jews want their Messiah (who will be a king) to come there needs to be a Jewish monarchy, so there can be a Jewish king, surely?

And yet Israel is a republic

Surely if they want their Messiah to come they’d need a monarchy???

You can’t have a king without a kingdom

So if they want their Messiah to come why haven’t they made the state of Israel a monarchy?

 

[Rival]

The Moshiach is going to restore the Kingdom. The current State of Israel must not be confused with the Biblical state.

 

[Eddi]

The Moshiach is going to restore the Kingdom. The current State of Israel must not be confused with the Biblical state.

So, to clarify, you're saying that according to Judaism the Messiah will somehow emerge and then personally restore the ancient Kingdom of Israel? That will replace the modern state of Israel?

 

[Rival]

So, to clarify, you're saying that according to Judaism the Messiah will somehow emerge and then personally restore the ancient Kingdom of Israel? That will replace the modern state of Israel?

Yes. The ten lost tribes will return and The Kingdom will be restored.

Bear in mind this is just one understanding.

 

[Eddi]

Yes. The ten lost tribes will return and The Kingdom will be restored.

Bear in mind this is just one understanding.

Are Jews doing anything to actively help make all this happen?

I mean, are they secretly screening young Jewish males to see if any of them may be The Messiah?

Or do they just expect the coming of their Messiah to play out naturally?

 

[Rival]

Are Jews doing anything to actively help make all this happen?

I mean, are they secretly screening young Jewish males to see if any of them may be The Messiah?

Or do they just expect the coming of their Messiah to play out naturally?

There is the belief that there is a man in every generation with the potential to be the Messiah. It's whether G-d makes it so, ultimately, depending on Israel's (the people's) conduct.

This is my understanding.

 

[Eddi]

There is the belief that there is a man in every generation with the potential to be the Messiah. It's whether G-d makes it so, ultimately, depending on Israel's (the people's) conduct.

This is my understanding.

All very interesting, thanks for your answers

I find Judaism to be a most interesting religion

 

[Rival]

All very interesting, thanks for your answers

I find Judaism to be a most interesting religion

Welcome.

 

[wizanda]

So if they want their Messiah to come why haven’t they made the state of Israel a monarchy?

Because prophetically God gave them King David as Messiah, and then took him away because they rejected him (Hosea 13:11)...

Then after Armageddon the Messiah King David shall return, and be appointed by God (Ezekiel 34:23-24, Ezekiel 37:24-25, Jeremiah 23:5, Jeremiah 30:8-9, Jeremiah 33:15, Hosea 3:5, Isaiah 55:3, Isaiah 22:22, Isaiah 9:6-7, etc).

Basically they can't ordain their own King, they're waiting for God to do it.

In my opinion.

 

[Tumah]

I have a question about something that occurred to me, that perhaps a Jewish person may be able to answer?

There’s something I don’t quite understand…

So, the Jewish people are awaiting the coming of their Messiah…

And as I understand it, according to Judaism The Jewish Messiah will be a king (?)

(Or is this understanding mistaken?)

And yet Israel is a republic

If the Jews want their Messiah (who will be a king) to come there needs to be a Jewish monarchy, so there can be a Jewish king, surely?

And yet Israel is a republic

Surely if they want their Messiah to come they’d need a monarchy???

You can’t have a king without a kingdom

So if they want their Messiah to come why haven’t they made the state of Israel a monarchy?

There are at least 2 problems with your question:

- Israel is only about 20% maybe 40% maximum religious. That means between 60-80% of the country is not religious. Aside for a small handful of things, the country is a secular country. The government does not refer to Judaism to determine its structure or direction. The government is a secular institution. Your questions are questions of religion and the State of Israel and the majority of it's residents aren't that. It's a secular country. Clear?

- We do not raise kings of Israel who are not descendants of David without G-d telling us to.

 

[Rival]

Israel is only about 20% maybe 40% maximum religious.

I knew it wasn't really all that religious but that low? I never knew that. That's

 

[Tumah]

I knew it wasn't really all that religious but that low? I never knew that. That's

There was a Pew about it. I think it was 10% Haredi, 10% National Religious and then like maybe 40% traditional and 40% secular.

 

[Rival]

There was a Pew about it. I think it was 10% Haredi, 10% National Religious and then like maybe 40% traditional and 40% secular.

What is meant by 'traditional' in this context?

 

[RabbiO]

What is meant by 'traditional' in this context?

@Tumah mentioned the Pew survey. I think the most recent was in 2015. It showed that 9% identified as Haredi, 13% identified as Orthodox, 29% identified as Masorti, the Traditional category, although the percent here probably is comprised of both those who identify as Masorti (Conservative in the USA), those who identify as Progressive/Liberal/Reform and the one or two Reconstructionist Jews who are probably in Israel. The remaining 49% self-identified as secular.

If one only considers those who identify as Haredi or Orthodox as religious you do get a very low percentage. Personally, I don't feel that it is correct to do so, but I'm not going to get into an argument about it.

 

[Tumah]

What is meant by 'traditional' in this context?

It means that Judaism is more of whatever their family tradition happens to be. Usually it means that they believe in G-d and they might also make kiddush on Friday night and perhaps go to shul on special days. They might have a kippah that they keep in the glove compartment of their cars. They usually have allegiance towards Orthodox Rabbis, but are also the layman's layman.

I'm sure there must be some Christian equivalent that you're more familiar with. There must be Christians that believe in Jesus but have never read the Bible and Christmas is just a thing that they do rather than a religious experience.

 

[Rival]

It means that Judaism is more of whatever their family tradition happens to be. Usually it means that they believe in G-d and they might also make kiddush on Friday night and perhaps go to shul on special days. They might have a kippah that they keep in the glove compartment of their cars. They usually have allegiance towards Orthodox Rabbis, but are also the layman's layman.

I'm sure there must be some Christian equivalent that you're more familiar with. There must be Christians that believe in Jesus but have never read the Bible and Christmas is just a thing that they do rather than a religious experience.

Ah, those people. Yes I know those people.

 

[Tumah]

@Tumah mentioned the Pew survey. I think the most recent was in 2015. It showed that 9% identified as Haredi, 13% identified as Orthodox, 29% identified as Masorti, the Traditional category, although the percent here probably is comprised of both those who identify as Masorti (Conservative in the USA), those who identify as Progressive/Liberal/Reform and the one or two Reconstructionist Jews who are probably in Israel. The remaining 49% self-identified as secular.

If one only considers those who identify as Haredi or Orthodox as religious you do get a very low percentage. Personally, I don't feel that it is correct to do so, but I'm not going to get into an argument about it.

Yeah, that sounds like the one I was referring to. The 20% religious that I had recalled was a combination of Haredi and National Religious. it looks like I was off by 2%.

I'm not sure how much Conservative(US)/Masorti(Rest of World) is related to the Israeli Masorti. At least, I've always heard that they're different.

 

[RabbiO]

I'm not sure how much Conservative(US)/Masorti(Rest of World) is related to the Israeli Masorti. At least, I've always heard that they're different.

There are some differences. The one that always pops into my head is the teshuva issued by the Conservative movement in the USA more than 50 years ago allowing driving to and from shul on Shabbat if necessary to attend services. The Masorti movement in Israel some time ago issued its own teshuva upholding the prohibition against driving on Shabbat.

 

[Earthtank]

Israel is nothing more than a terrorist and Zionist state placed in the middle east to spread corruption and war yet, It's disguising itself as some kind of democracy while they kill innocent women and children and keep illegally stealing more and more land from the Palestinians.

 

[Rival]

Israel is nothing more than a terrorist and Zionist state placed in the middle east to spread corruption and war yet, It's disguising itself as some kind of democracy while they kill innocent women and children and keep illegally stealing more and more land from the Palestinians.

This is not a debate thread and this is not the topic.