Why Islam makes more sense conceptually of all the Abrahamic faiths

[Revoltingest]

Not everyone is good at math, either. LOL

Aye, there are 3 kinds of people...
Those who can count.
And those who can't.

 

[Ellen Brown]

Having derived yourself from the Christian faith you are probably aware that Jesus never causes the death of a single person. It is recorded in the New Testament, however, that he did intervene to prevent the stoning of a woman accused of adultery. He told those gathered about her, "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone." None of them were without sin and so the crowd dispersed. And to the woman he said, "Go, and sin no more."

Christianity teaches that no man or woman is without sin, all Christians know this. So the message is clear, it is not permissible to execute any person. The only Being without sin is God, and so God alone may pass such a judgement. Furthermore, Jesus is never associated with the government (whereas Mohammad was the government) which is why the separation of church and state is possible in a Christian land (and is next to impossible within Islam). This is the primary reason I see the West and Islam as incompatible--Islam wherever it is the dominant force leans to theocracy.

The Angel's prediction about Ishmael and his descendants seems to have borne out. I am not sure why a perfect creator would create a whole race to cause turmoil? Why is it that many Islamics have a "Little Brother" attitude about the rest of the world?

 

[shunyadragon]

I believe that is not even close to how good Christianity is.

The claim how 'good?' Christianity is is questionable and problematic given the reality of history and relationships with those that believe differently.

 

[Ellen Brown]

In the early days, the Caliph was seen as God's deputy on earth and had the power to settle religious disputes. The community was guided by the Quran and the sunna of the Caliph.

The legitimating power of the Caliph declined over time due the civil wars, and the stalled expansionism of the Islamic Empire after their initial successes.

Differing schools of thought emerged to fill this gap: puritanical kharijites, 'rationalistic' Ahl-al Kalam, proto-shia favouring the family of Ali and proto-Sunni who sought to establish a Sunna of Muhammad.

"Patricia Crone and Martin Hinds have meticulously traced the process by which the Prophet rose from playing virtually “no legitimatory role” in the early caliphate to becoming for the proto-Sunnis the exclusive source of legitimacy. “Once the Prophet
had acquired his capital ‘P’, straight descent from him was an unbeatable claim,” and it is precisely to make this claim that the proto-Sunnis embraced hadith so wholeheartedly."

The above point is supported by the fact that the name Muhammad is almost entirely absent from the historical record for 70+ years until around the time of abd al-Malik it suddenly becomes widespread in inscriptions, coins, etc.

Such crises [in legitimation] often lead to tremendous creativity: history is replete with examples of religious thinkers, activists and movements which have attempted to reformulate traditions—by developing new plausibility structures or recovering old ones (or some combination of the two) — to meet new circumstances...

Interestingly, the proto-Sunni development and use of isna¯ds fits into a broader phenomenon observable throughout the Muslim world at the time: the widespread “manufacture of legitimizing genealogies.”37 Among the proto-Sunnis, this hadith-based sunna, in turn, was elevated to almost equal status with the Qur’an in terms of its authority to guide the belief and practice of Muslims. Indeed, in later Sunni Islam, this notion was formalized as hadith was made the so-called “second root” of Islamic law. In this formulation, while the Qur’an retained its theoretical supremacy and liturgical centrality, it in fact became subordinate to hadith insofar as the Qur’an had to be interpreted in light of hadith and not vice versa. This elevation of hadith was a highly significant development, in light of the fact that sunna had previously been understood generically as the practice of caliphs or of upright people in general. Why this shift, and what did it mean?


The Roots and Achievements of the Early Proto-Sunni Movement: A Profile and Interpretation - Matthew J. Kuiper.
The Muslim World • Volume 104 • JANUARY /APRIL 2014

This is one of the most rational pieces I have seen on Islam, and written by a non-Muslim. Lately, I have had issue with the hadith and so have others. There is a group of "Quran only" Muslims and I've found them interesting. There is more than enough irrationality to go around though. Christianity if rife with it and to a lesser extent, I feel that way about certain Jewish practices.

 

[shunyadragon]

SWT refers to: Subhanahu wa ta'ala, Arabic for "May He be glorified and exalted", Muslim honorific. Islam is rich in honorifics and one can often hear them when the name of Muhammad PBUH (Peace Be Unto Him) and after the name of Allah SWT, or (Subhanahu wa ta'ala).

It is sometimes easier to talk to non-believers. From around age 12, I just felt that what I saw around me was far too orderly to have just happened. I would not have further exposure to religion until I was in my late 20's, though I still felt that Creation was not random. It seemed more rational that Science and Religion were intertwined in and inextricable way. Sadly, many Scientists seemed angry about religion, and the religious often were condemning of Science. How very Odd.

Religion came to me in 1974, and I tried very hard to be suitable to the Christian God. Finally, around 2003 I gave up on Christianity because after 2001, most I knew seemed to be ignoring the words of Jesus Christ, Love your enemy. I had been reading about Muslims in an effort to understand their point of view; why the attack?

These days, I don't feel we know the full truth about that pseudo attack.

I practiced Islam for 7 or so years, and am now simply fascinated with the Creator, and why there are so many mutually hostile religions? I still feel that Creation is not random.

One word of caution of the assumption of many theists is that from the scientific perspective the origins and processes that lead to the universe that we have are 'random.' This very far from the view of science in that nothing in the macro world results from a cause and effect result has any random result without cause nor recognizable pattern.

From the perspective of science the objective verifiable evidence demonstrates that every cause and effect outcome is determined by natural laws, and the range of outcomes is limited by natural law. The variation in the possible outcomes can be described by fractal math described by Chaos Theory. Like Einstein concluded in nature the dice are loaded, and the outcomes are predetermined by natural laws.

 

[shunyadragon]

yeah of course......Christians have their down side.....

but we are no longer killing our women for indiscretions

This is a very naive view of what happens world wide in the Christian world, and again being selective of what happens in history.

 

[Muffled]

Does 2+2=5 make more sense than 2+2=3 ?

My math says 1 taken three times is still 1.

 

[Tumah]

My math says 1 taken three times is still 1.

That's some crazy math. 3 x 1 = 3 for most people.

 

[Muffled]

I still insist Judaism is really the only one that makes sense as it is what the Abrahamic religions are primarily based on, but yet all the others get the basic fundamentals so wrong.

I believe making sense is not the issue.

 

[Rival]

That's some crazy math. 3 x 1 = 3 for most people.

He is a Christian. 1+1+1=1, remember?

 

[Muffled]

That's some crazy math. 3 x 1 = 3 for most people.

Of course there would be three instances of 1 but in each case the 1 does not become 2 or 3.

 

[Tumah]

He is a Christian. 1+1+1=1, remember?

Oh, I remember. It's just kind of weird for one to state it so frankly.

 

[Muffled]

He is a Christian. 1+1+1=1, remember?

I do my own math. 1+1+1 is the same as 3x1.

 

[Rival]

I do my own math. 1+1+1 is the same as 3x1.

...which is 3.

 

[Tumah]

Of course there would be three instances of 1 but in each case the 1 does not become 2 or 3.

You are missing some or many words that will facilitate in making this sentence understandable by anyone outside your head.
You said "1 taken three times is still 1" in "your math".
So let's say you put your hand in the drawer and take out one fork and put it on the table.
Then you do that again.
Then you do it one more time.
How many forks will you find on the table at this point according to your math?

 

[Muffled]

Sort of.

All Abrahamic faiths have their own challenges. But Islaam is supreme among the main denominations in that it elevates those challenges to immutable articles of faith.

For all their faults and drawbacks, Judaism, Christianity and the Bahai Faith have all learned better to some degree or another, and all of humanity is that much better for it.

I believe God is immutable. It is man that changes.

 

[Muffled]

...which is 3.

I believe there are three members of the Trinity but only one entity taken three times.

 

[Rival]

I believe there are three members of the Trinity but only one entity taken three times.

I'm not actually arguing with you about the trinity, I was just being facetious. Making jokes at Christians' expense is just too tempting sometimes.

 

[1213]

Why Islam makes more sense conceptually of all the Abrahamic faiths

Probably because it gives easiest way and accepts things that people want but are not accepted in Bible.

But you seem to have also bad mistakes on what the Bible tells. According to the Bible, God is spirit, not a man, nor transforms into man.

God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.
John 4:24

But interesting thing is, Muslims should believe Jesus, because Quran says:


…The Messiah, Jesus, … was but a messenger of Allah … So believe in Allah and His messengers…
Surat An-Nisā' 4:171
http://quran.com/4/171

Unfortunately, Muslims don’t seem to believe Jesus, nor Quran.

 

[Revoltingest]

My math says 1 taken three times is still 1.

In math, I never used the operator, "taken".
But to improve upon my earlier analogy, religion is often of this sort...
Sin + Belief = Salvation
Unlike the earlier equations which were wrong,
this one can be shown neither right nor wrong.
The old "nicht einmal falsch" criticism.