Why Islam makes more sense conceptually of all the Abrahamic faiths

[Deidre]

It bothers me when entire nations or regimes make it law that women have to wear burkas (sometimes covering their face) or they get sexually assaulted.
I don't know of any Christian countries that do that to women in the 21st century, but such laws have dominated multiple nations and countless millions of people in the 21st century. I'd rather be dead than live under such a regime. Some things are worse than death, and that torture of dark-aged misogynist Theocracy, is one of them!

What really p*sses me off and makes my blood boil is when they mutilate and disfigure people. Mutilating and disfiguring people is promoted in the Qur'an, which explains why it is seen more in 21st century Islam as opposed to 21st century Christianity.

Aisha suffered early in life, losing her mother and forced into marriage as a teenager.[1] In a practice known as baad, Aisha's father promised her to a Taliban fighter when she was 12 years old as compensation for a killing that a member of her family had committed. She was married at 14 and subjected to abuse. At 18 she fled the abuse but was caught by police, jailed for five months, and returned to her family.[2] Her father returned her to her husband's family. To take revenge on her escape, her father-in-law, husband, and three other family members took Aisha into the mountains, cut off her nose and her ears, and left her to die
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bibi_Aisha
(Here is a picture of her mutilated face. An otherwise attractive human being)

Spoiler

View attachment 23043

All bowing to their genderless god.

That’s so sad

 

[Deidre]

There is an issue, especially with the Abrahamic faiths, where men seem to get a pass on dissing women. Physiologically, because of Testosterone, men think about sex very often. Women do the same thing but their sex drive is far less oppressive.

So, the incident with the Apple in the Garden of Eden is a crafty way to blame women for sin. And keep in mind that the book of Genesis got passed around the camp fire for how many thousands of years before it was written down? Was that in Cuneiform 5500 years ago, or in some pre-Hebrew language somewhere in the BC times?

In the Old Testament, you'll have to look it up, women were required to live in a tent outside the camp during her menses. Men sneakily used that to build the excuse that women were inferior, when I think it was simply a matter of hygiene. The same applied to the consumption of Pork, and I still avoid it.

AND, in Islam there is the idea that there are more women in Jehenna than men. In doing a bit of research, I find that, especially with the Shia, this has become a bone of contention. Perhaps that idea will die of embarrassment?

Considering only men put together the holy texts of all abrahamic religions, it just makes you wonder if this is where the oppression came from, and they use God as the scapegoat.

 

[Ellen Brown]

I believe most people create a version of their religion they feel comfortable with. There are many comforting humanistic qualities surrounding the Abrahamic beliefs. However I see the morality of these beliefs coming from an earlier more barbaric time. Some of the ideas they found acceptable, we can't. This is always going to cause an internal moral conflict unless you can find way to adjust your understanding of what were immoral acts in the modern view of morality. So folks either create a narrative they can feel comfortable with or they end up looking elsewhere.

My Anthropologist side agrees with you.

 

[sun rise]

Personally I'm not of a mind to try to convince someone else that one religion is better than another. They are all partial views of the reality which is beyond religion. To me religion which inspires someone to work on themselves to manifest truth, beauty, justice, honor and love is the right religion for that person.

But a couple of notes: Judaism differs from Islam when it comes to conversion. Islam seeks converts and the religion is thus oriented around that while Judaism does not.

As far as how Judaism names the divine, some of the 99 Islamic "names of God" are present in Judaism as this partial excerpt from the Wikipedia page illustrates:

• Ehiyeh sh'Ehiyeh – "I Am That I Am": a modern Hebrew version of "Ehyeh asher Ehyeh"
• Ein Sof – "Endless, Infinite", Kabbalistic name of God
• El ha-Gibbor – "God the Hero" or "God the Strong" or "God the Warrior"."Allah jabbar" "الله جبار" in Arabic means "the God is formidable and invincible"
• Emet – "Truth"
• HaKadosh, Barukh Hu (Hebrew); Kudsha, Brikh Hu (Aramaic); تبارک القدوس (Arabic) – "The Holy One, Blessed Be He"
• HaRachaman – "The Merciful One"; "Rahman - رحمن" In (Arabic)
• Kadosh Israel – "Holy One of Israel"
• Magen Avraham – "Shield of Abraham"
• Makom or HaMakom – literally "The Place", perhaps meaning "The Omnipresent" (see Tzimtzum)
• Malbish Arumim – "Clother of the Naked"
• Matir Asurim – "Freer of the Captives"
• Mechayeh HaKol In Arabic "Al-muhyi al-kull - محيي الكل" – "Life giver to All" (Reform version of Mechayeh Metim)
• Mechayeh Metim – "Life giver to the Dead"
• Melech HaMelachim–"The King of Kings" or Melech Malchei HaMelachim "The King, King of Kings", to express superiority to the earthly rulers title. Arabic version of it is مالك الملك (Malik al-Mulk).
• Melech HaOlam–"The King of the World"
• Memra d'Adonai-"The Word of the LORD" (plus variations such as "My Word") - restricted to the Aramaic Targums; (the written Tetragrammaton is represented in various ways such as YYY, YWY, YY, but pronounced as the Hebrew "Adonai")
• Mi She'amar V'haya Ha`olam - "He who spoke, and the world came into being."
• Oseh Shalom – "Maker of Peace"
• Pokeach Ivrim – "Opener of Blind Eyes"
• Ribono shel'Olam – "Master of the World". Arabic version of it is رب العلمين

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Judaism in their narrow exclusive beliefs essentially alienates them selves from the rest of the world.

That's because the Jews are Jehovah's chosen people. It's their religion, their god, and yet it was appropriated, hacked up, and crudely put back together to fit Christianity, Islam, and Bahai. Those three are basically saying that the Jews get their own religion wrong.

 

[Revoltingest]

That's because the Jews are Jehovah's chosen people. It's their religion, their god, and yet it was appropriated, hacked up, and crudely put back together to fit Christianity, Islam, and Bahai. Those three are basically saying that the Jews get their own religion wrong.

Aren't most religions about making all others wrong?
After all, even the chosen people are the only "chosen".
And this gives them the right to take land from others.

 

[Spiderman]

If every Muslim had your attitude, I would say nothing negative about Islam.

However, I'd still object to torture and mutilation in the Qur'an, but if every Muslim was refusing to practice such psychopathic crimes against humanity, I'd respect their beliefs.

I'll respect anyone's belief, and I will face mecca on my face to praise Allah with any Muslim, but when a person's beliefs turn into dark-aged Theocracies that dehumanize, bully, and oppress countless millions of people, it is then that I am no longer doing the loving thing by being quiet about it!

Also, @Epic Beard Man ,
Your agenda, double-standards, selective outrage, and what appears to be hatred toward certain groups has shown in multiple of your posts. I'm glad you have toned down the personal insults a bit, but I've seen enough of your posts to know your agenda, even in a seemingly harmless thread like this one.

You say, "Islam makes the most sense" "Islam requires all human beings to respect each other and respect living beings and creatures.", but for you to actually put forth an argument to support those assertions, is almost as difficult as trying to argue such positive assertions about a religious cult known as the "Manson family"...only Muhammad and the first Muslims killed far more people than the Manson family, so arguably did far more harm to our world!

Your glorification of Islam isn't fair to the countless millions of people who are victimized by Islam (even in the 21st century), in the same way that glorification of Communist or Fascist regimes is not respectful to the people who have been victimized by them!

The fact of the matter is, in the 21st century, there have been multiple nations dominated by dark-aged Theocracies where people were publicly tortured, executed, or stoned to death. There are plenty instances of non-muslims, (or muslims considered to be heretics like Shiites), who were sold as sex-slaves. Also worse than death, is the people under these regimes who got their noses cut off, their ears cut off, their hands cut off, or whatever other mutilations. Similar tortures or mutilations are glorified in the Muslim "Holy Book". It's also sad, so many lovers of freedom and rational thought, can't speak their mind lest they spend a big chunk of their life behind bars, die, or get their tongue cut out!

I don't like anything psychopathic or cruel in the Bible, so I don't promote the Bible as a loving rational book, but I don't see any Christian regimes in the 21st century legalizing mutilating people, torture, stoning adulterers, or legally killing people for the crime of not being Christian. If such practices take place, it is most likely in some uneducated, impoverished, developing country in Africa, certainly nothing I've seen in any first-world 21st Century Christian countries.

Bottom line is, I think you are well aware that Muhammad and the first Muslims were intolerant, violent, extremist, mass-killing groups, yet you still promote it, knowing well aware how many countless millions are victimized by these dark-aged Theocracies.

I've seen you post the picture of a mutilated person of African descent, Emmet Till. Well, we all agree that is horrific and wrong! However, I can give you plenty of pictures of mutilated faces of victims of Islamic extremists. For many of them, they must live without ears, nose, lips, or hideous disfigurements for the rest of their lives, which is absolutely worse than death imo! Yet you continue to support the atrocities and hate by refusing to renounce such psychopathic behavior as it is glorified by the Qur'an. Rather, you defend it!

Then you pretend to be for equal rights and social justice! It's complete hypocrisy! I condemn cruelty, hate, uncalled for violence, and torture, in all it's forms. It's time you ought to consider doing the same!

 

[LuisDantas]

Does 2+2=5 make more sense than 2+2=3 ?

Sort of.

All Abrahamic faiths have their own challenges. But Islaam is supreme among the main denominations in that it elevates those challenges to immutable articles of faith.

For all their faults and drawbacks, Judaism, Christianity and the Bahai Faith have all learned better to some degree or another, and all of humanity is that much better for it.

 

[Tumah]

Just to clarify two things:

Although in Jewish philosophy Ha’Shem or YHVH is considered “Master of the World” as I was told, historically and even some of the orthodox lectures from Rabbis seem to present God as centralized to a specific people as opposed to the species of humankind.

Judaism (including Orthodox) definitely believes that G-d is the G-d of all mankind, the whole world and all the worlds. These are some of the epithets we have made for Him as well. When we speak about G-d being G-d of the Jews, we are relating to the particular relationship we have with Him and it's not really a statement about His objective being. For instance, every blessing we make starts with the words: Blessed are you Hashem, our G-d, King of the world..." We have here both elements: our distinct relationship with G-d and G-d's objective status with relation to the world at large.

However, unlike Judaism Islam does not demand 600 plus laws upon individuals, rather the basic minimum for a believer.

There are 7 Laws for the believer. The 613+ are only for Jews.

 

[shunyadragon]

That's because the Jews are Jehovah's chosen people. It's their religion, their god,

This is the crux of my argument that makes Judaism problematic.

IF A Source some call God(s) exists God would not be the exclusive God of one chosen people based on ancient scripture of highly questionable provenance.

and yet it was appropriated, hacked up, and crudely put back together to fit Christianity, Islam, and Baha'i. Those three are basically saying that the Jews get their own religion wrong.

This is the problematic reason for the conflicts and wars in the history of the Middle East and contributes to the problems world wide.

The Baha'i Faith does not make a broad condemnation of the 'other religions as do Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

 

[shunyadragon]

Just to clarify two things:



Judaism (including Orthodox) definitely believes that G-d is the G-d of all mankind, the whole world and all the worlds. These are some of the epithets we have made for Him as well. When we speak about G-d being G-d of the Jews, we are relating to the particular relationship we have with Him and it's not really a statement about His objective being. For instance, every blessing we make starts with the words: Blessed are you Hashem, our G-d, King of the world..." We have here both elements: our distinct relationship with G-d and G-d's objective status with relation to the world at large.

Unfortunately this is in conflict with the reality Judaism and the relationship in the world to those who believe differently.

Your appealing to vague 'conceptual' concepts of belief and not reality as @Epic Beard Man does to justify his belief in Islam.

 

[Tumah]

Unfortunately this is in conflict with the reality Judaism and the relationship in the world to those who believe differently.

Your appealing to vague 'conceptual' concepts of belief and not reality as @Epic Beard Man does to justify his belief in Islam.

I'm not attempting to appeal to anyone, resolve contradictions between other religious beliefs and Judaism, or justify belief in Judaism. I'm only explaining Judaism's stance on this and explaining that it was represented wrongly in the OP.

 

[Spiderman]

Sort of.

All Abrahamic faiths have their own challenges. But Islaam is supreme among the main denominations in that it elevates those challenges to immutable articles of faith.

For all their faults and drawbacks, Judaism, Christianity and the Bahai Faith have all learned better to some degree or another, and all of humanity is that much better for it.

Jesus reminds me more of figures like Buddha, Gandhi, or Martin Luther King.

I love and respect such non-violent figures. Jesus taught people to love their enemies, he did not approve of stoning adulterers, he forgave those who crucified him, and unlike Muhammad, he didn't raise up an army to conquer and oppress people, or destroy shrines and Idols sacred to Polytheists.

Now, there is disgusting irrational stuff in the Old and New Testament, and I condemn all hateful bigotry, injustice, homophobia, misogyny, and calls to violence in the Bible as well!

I'm still a monotheist, but must condemn hatred in all of it's forms, or I'd be a hypocrite.

Still, when it comes to 21st century Christianity, compared to 21st century Islam, it isn't too difficult to see which is more threatening to liberties like freedom of speech, women's equality, or which is less civilized, more barbaric (on average), and has more dark-aged Theocracies brainwashing and oppressing countless millions!

 

[shunyadragon]

I'm not attempting to appeal to anyone, resolve contradictions between other religious beliefs and Judaism, or justify belief in Judaism. I'm only explaining Judaism's stance on this and explaining that it was represented wrongly in the OP.

. . . and your claim of the stance of Judaism is highly abstract and conceptual like that of @Epic Beard Man DOES NOT reflect the reality of Judaism and its claims as the 'chosen people,'.and as you stated earlier:

That's because the Jews are Jehovah's chosen people. It's their religion, their god . . .

These polite 'conceptual' claims reminds me of the Roman Church, and the Vatican II concerning ecumenism and those out side the church. Polite encouraging statemnts are followed by clear and specific statements 'my way or the highway to . . .'

 

[Ellen Brown]

Considering only men put together the holy texts of all abrahamic religions, it just makes you wonder if this is where the oppression came from, and they use God as the scapegoat.

Sometimes men act like annoying little children. Another part of their assumed entitlement is Genesis 3:16, and from a very early age many women are conditioned to swallow that without questioning.

 

[Reaper]

https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/mobile/000/025/090/tumblr_inline_p1brmcd9Dk1rr08jv_500.jpg

 

[Spiderman]

All bowing to their genderless god.

That’s so sad

Yeah...

I'll face mecca and praise Allah with any Muslim. I'm fine with much of their Religion.

Thing is, I saw how mutilating and torturing people was promoted in the Qur'an and it made my blood boil. See, I don't care if Muslims take me out and shoot me to death, or cut off my head quickly.

What really bothers me though, is the idea of getting my hands, feet, or other body parts cut off, or other tortures, and the Koran glorifies torturing and mutilating people. Also, I'd rather be dead than be a woman in any Muslim-majority country. Some things are worse than death!

When I saw those tortures and disfigurements in the Koran, and saw examples of Muslims mutilating, torturing, and gang-raping non-Muslims large-scale in the 21st century, I just had it with Islam!!!, and felt like standing up to Islam is just as noble as standing up to hate groups like KKK or Nazis!

 

[Spiderman]

Sometimes men act like annoying little children. Another part of their assumed entitlement is Genesis 3:16, and from a very early age many women are conditioned to swallow that without questioning.

Is there a feminist movement in Theocracies like Saudi-Arabia?

They finally let women drive!

Saudi-Arabia is the Islamic capitol and Holy Land (holiest pilgrimage site) in many ways, so I'd be kind of embarrassed that such a holy site waited till the 21st century before allowing an entire gender to drive a friggin car! Really??

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm not attempting to appeal to anyone, resolve contradictions between other religious beliefs and Judaism, or justify belief in Judaism. I'm only explaining Judaism's stance on this and explaining that it was represented wrongly in the OP.

Ya know...sometimes I can't speak to the substance of
a post, but it's frubalworthy just because it's well said.
(This sometimes gets me in hot water with partisans
who think I believe something I don't.)

 

[Deidre]

Yeah...

I'll face mecca and praise Allah with any Muslim. I'm fine with much of their Religion.

Thing is, I saw how mutilating and torturing people was promoted in the Qur'an and it made my blood boil. See, I don't care if Muslims take me out and shoot me to death, or cut off my head quickly.

What really bothers me though, is the idea of getting my hands, feet, or other body parts cut off, or other tortures, and the Koran glorifies torturing and mutilating people. Also, I'd rather be dead than be a woman in any Muslim-majority country. Some things are worse than death!

When I saw those tortures and disfigurements in the Koran, and saw examples of Muslims mutilating, torturing, and gang-raping non-Muslims large-scale in the 21st century, I just had it with Islam!!!, and felt like standing up to Islam is just as noble as standing up to hate groups like KKK or Nazis!

Why would anyone want to worship a god who expects such things?