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Featured Why Islam makes more sense conceptually of all the Abrahamic faiths

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Epic Beard Man, Jul 16, 2018.

  1. Marsh

    Marsh Active Member

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    You are so right.

    There is the recent story of seventeen year old Maedeh Hojabri of Iran. She has been sentenced to four years in prison and 20 - 100 lashes (I don't recall the exact number) and her crime is two-fold. She posted videos of herself dancing (she is very, very good) and she is not wearing an hijab. By Iranian law all women must wear hijabs in public or risk jail time. So they are going to strip her to the waist and some ***-hole is going to flog her until the skin on her back come off.

    There is also a movement in Iran were women are whipping off their hijabs and taking pictures of themselves in front of the government billboards warning women to cover-up. Large numbers have been arrested.
     
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  2. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    Your selective reasoning to justify your agenda fails. 'Cherry picking' fallacy..

    Example: Guantanamo torture prison along with other locations in Europe.

    We did the same with Negro slaves and Native Americans.

    No brass ring nor Cuppy doll for your 'cherry picking.'
     
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  3. Spiderman

    Spiderman Veteran Member

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    Drinking wine is not Barbaric.

    Muhammad was an extremist, radical, fanatic, bloodthirsty terrorist, who committed countless vicious sadistic crimes against humanity!

    He had multiple wives, got rich and powerful stealing and looting, and didn't respect the rights of a prepubescent girl too young to consent!

    Amazing how Muslims think drinking wine is a crime but defending a mass-murderer and pedophile is okay!
     
  4. Spiderman

    Spiderman Veteran Member

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    Very sad!

    Iran is a lot more tolerant and nicer to their women than the average Arab nation, so it is disheartening to hear that!
     
  5. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    I've heard about this. Iran's religious leader is pretty radical.
     
  6. Spiderman

    Spiderman Veteran Member

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    I'm talking about 21st century. And no, I'm not cherry-picking.

    Abuse of prisoners is wrong, but it is different than Christians torturing and killing people legally, in the real world outside of prison, for not being Christian.
     
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  7. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    Sounds more like a female politician telling a fighter how he should act on the battlefield to me.

    Quite barbaric. My guess is that Jesus was a tough guy. Carrying His own cross++. I wouldn't be surprised if The Church changed the story to make it a best seller.
     
  8. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    That my friend is the supreme Cherry Picking. Guantanamo still exists.

    19th and 20th century are not ancient history.

    Guantanamo was not legal by US law nor international law.. It is the same whether you put people in prison or not.
     
    #268 shunyadragon, Jul 18, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2018
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  9. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    I perfectly understand what @PopeADope says. In my country they don't stone you to death in public. Just to give an example. There is a clear difference.
    A female friend of mine is from Iran. She escaped from there. She told me "it was not so nice", to say it nice. Heaven in Europe.
     
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  10. Spiderman

    Spiderman Veteran Member

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    How about you read my post again.
    I'm concerned about what is happening in my lifetime:
    So, you are the one speaking falsehood and misquoting me.
    People detained in prison are not necessarily being tortured for being non-Christian.
    Arguably they are being tortured for being terrorists or fighting American War on terror.


    I was speaking of people being tortured and killed legally for the crime of adhering to a different faith.

    So, It's quite easy to win an argument with you! ;)

    That doesn't make torture justified under any circumstance, but your post is irrelevant in response to what I posted.

    Muslims are torturing and killing people legally and publicly for not being Muslim, or for being accused of adultery or homosexuality. No first-world Christian country legally does this to people for the crime of not being Christian, adultery, or homosexuality.

    21st century Islamic regimes legally took non-muslim women and prepubescent girls as sex-slaves.


    The tortures at Guantanamo were violations are a breach of human rights laws, therefore are not sanctioned or legal. It is way different than 21st century Islamic atrocities which were often committed legally. Meaning it was sanctioned by the people who were in power.
     
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  11. Dawnofhope

    Dawnofhope Veteran Member
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    Hi Marsh,
    Many Eastern Orthodox Christians felt they were better treated by the Ottomans than the Roman Catholic Church. The sacking of Constantinople resulting from a failed Christian crusade was not easily forgotten or forgiven.

    At one stage Islam under the Abbasids was THE greatest and most progressive civilisation that had ever been. The Islamic Golden age is credited by many historians as one of the most significant influences igniting the European Renaissance. Unfortunately it was a steady decline under the Ottomans as Western civilisation flourished. Then again I’ve heard estimates of up to 40% of Europe’s being killed as a result of conflict arising from the schism arising between Protestants and Catholics.

    So while Islam clearly distinguishes itself through fanaticism, violence and persecution of other religions, Christians have an abysmal record too, especially in regards anti-semitism.
     
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  12. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    I read your post it is cherry picking.



    There is abundant evidence they were stereotyped as Muslims. In fact some of the detainees in Guantanimo and other torture facilities never committed any crimes.

    I was speaking of people being tortured and killed legally for the crime of adhering to a different faith.

    No win with fallacies abundo to justify your agenda!!
     
    #272 shunyadragon, Jul 18, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2018
  13. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    The West has improved a lot. They murdered plenty in the past, even Jesus was murdered.

    The violence in name of Islam is happening still now
    This 40% you are talking about, is that from recent years?
    We should "stay in the present, now" to compare things

    The past is useful to understand why violence happens
     
  14. Spiderman

    Spiderman Veteran Member

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    Quote one thing I said that was false.

    Guantanamo has many prisoners who belonged to terrorist regimes. Arguably they are not being tortured legally, and they could likely be tortured for being terrorists and fighting America, not being tortured for being non-Christian.

    Some of them could be falsely accused, but even then, their crime for going to prison wasn't being non-Christian. Their crime was suspicion of them being a terrorist, fighting America, or breaking some other law.

    Muslims on the other hand legally detain, torture, and kill people for speaking the truth about Muhammad or the Qur'an or being non-muslim.

    Find for me evidence of one person detained at Guantanamo for the crime of being non-Christian.

    Until you can do that, you have lost the argument as well as made a false accusation against me!
     
  15. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    It is not a matter of whether @PopeADope was right or not about the problems in contemporary Islam in some Islamic countries, To add I am a Baha'i, and I cannot travel in some Islamic countries, because of the persecution of Baha'is.

    The problem is that it is a universal problem in history and scripture throughout the history of Judaism and Christianity, and recently Islam.
     
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  16. Dawnofhope

    Dawnofhope Veteran Member
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    How about the genocide of six millions Jews during WWII? Is that too far back?
     
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  17. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    Many in Guantanimo were put there without evidence nor cause, and it was because they were Muslims.

    From:https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/most-guantanamo-detainees-are-innocent-ex-bush-official-1.804550

    Most Guantanamo detainees are innocent: ex-Bush official

    Many detainees locked up in Guantanamo Bay were innocent men swept up by U.S. forces unable to distinguish enemies from noncombatants, a former Bush administration official said Thursday.

    "There are still innocent people there," Republican Lawrence B. Wilkerson, former chief of staff to then-secretary of state Colin Powell, told the Associated Press. "Some have been there six or seven years."

    Wilkerson, who first made the assertions in an internet posting on Tuesday, told the AP he learned from briefings and by communicating with military commanders that the U.S. soon realized many detainees held at the U.S. military prison in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, were innocent but nevertheless held them in hopes they could provide information for a "mosaic" of intelligence.

    "It did not matter if a detainee were innocent. Indeed, because he lived in Afghanistan and was captured on or near the battle area, he must know something of importance," Wilkerson wrote in the blog.

    He said intelligence analysts hoped to gather "sufficient information about a village, a region, or a group of individuals, that dots could be connected and terrorists or their plots could be identified."

    Wilkerson, a retired Army colonel, said vetting on the battlefield during the early stages of U.S. military operations in Afghanistan was incompetent with no meaningful attempt to discriminate "who we were transporting to Cuba for detention and interrogation."
     
  18. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    The pogroms against Jews by Christians go back much further than WWII, and the Holocaust was just an extention of .this.
     
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  19. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    False by the fallacy of 'cherry picking.'

    Again . . .

    Many in Guantanimo were put there without evidence nor cause, and it was because they were Muslims.

    From:https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/most-guantanamo-detainees-are-innocent-ex-bush-official-1.804550

    Most Guantanamo detainees are innocent: ex-Bush official

    Many detainees locked up in Guantanamo Bay were innocent men swept up by U.S. forces unable to distinguish enemies from noncombatants, a former Bush administration official said Thursday.

    "There are still innocent people there," Republican Lawrence B. Wilkerson, former chief of staff to then-secretary of state Colin Powell, told the Associated Press. "Some have been there six or seven years."

    Wilkerson, who first made the assertions in an internet posting on Tuesday, told the AP he learned from briefings and by communicating with military commanders that the U.S. soon realized many detainees held at the U.S. military prison in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, were innocent but nevertheless held them in hopes they could provide information for a "mosaic" of intelligence.

    "It did not matter if a detainee were innocent. Indeed, because he lived in Afghanistan and was captured on or near the battle area, he must know something of importance," Wilkerson wrote in the blog.

    He said intelligence analysts hoped to gather "sufficient information about a village, a region, or a group of individuals, that dots could be connected and terrorists or their plots could be identified."

    Wilkerson, a retired Army colonel, said vetting on the battlefield during the early stages of U.S. military operations in Afghanistan was incompetent with no meaningful attempt to discriminate "who we were transporting to Cuba for detention and interrogation."
     
  20. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    Yes that is too far back.

    But apart from that, that is in war time.

    I was talking about The Laws that Muslim Countries have that are so much more cruel than our Laws.
     
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