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Why Islam makes more sense conceptually of all the Abrahamic faiths

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
This notion of Islam is alien to me. Can you provide some examples of Islamic governments, organizations, or Islamists that have gone out of their way to act like a big brother to non-Muslims?
Agreed. I can't place this sentiment, as given.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
I would say by contrast that I understand Muslims cannot feel assured of salvation, per Islam and the Noble Qu'ran, but that I have great peace and assurance of salvation.

How do you know Muslims do not feel assured about salvation?

You assurance is similar to the pedophile that harms children yet was baptized and proclaims salvation. I think theologically Muslims understand that salvation is not guaranteed even for the believer because there are plenty of believers in God that harm people regularly. Your belief is not what saves you, it is rather a combination of things. For the Muslim, God sees everything that you do, and while you may believe in God, perpetual disrespect to another person along with having a vile attitude and disrespect for human beings and other life forms is not of Good, rather, a distortion of your own mind (at least according to theology). Often times people use the belief in Good as a crutch for salvation.

"Oh I believe Jesus is Lord and Savior so I'm saved..."

How do you know? For the uttering of saying so and believing it?

There is a common issue I see in all members of the Abrahamic family and that is arrogance...Arrogance is the common denominator.

Although so-called believers often proclaim God as their savior they do not act humble. I find it like the person who almost drowns and God throws a life raft out. the Jew, Christian,. and Muslim is like "I knew God would do that, that's my homie and homies do that." Yet all that time you were the same individual that pushed another person's head down underwater to save your own skin. Believers proclaim often that God is all-knowing yet behave as if what they do is in secret.

I was told "why aren't you Muslim?"

I said "I like pre-marital sex and alcohol too much."

That is not to say I like them more than God, but if I base my behavior and my social interactions with people based on those two vices for decades religion is not going to suddenly get rid of a behavior that I've constructed in my life. These are things that change in time. Just as the skin head who hates Jews and blacks but proclaim Christ as their savior your behavior does not suddenly evaporate, at least not in the common way. So no, there is no assurance.. God may say "hey you were a decent guy but you acted very arrogant, I want you to know what hell is like for 5 seconds."
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
This notion of Islam is alien to me. Can you provide some examples of Islamic governments, organizations, or Islamists that have gone out of their way to act like a big brother to non-Muslims?
I know right...

I have seen a rare Christian behave in such a way, but so many countries like Lebanon, India, and elsewhere, become a cesspool of atrocities (including rape and torture), or extremely violent as soon as they get a high percentage of Muslims, or Islamic majority.

I also see no "big brother" attitude in Dark-aged Theocracies like Saudi-Arabia, the most holy site of Islamic pilgramedge, where people can go to jail for ten years or more for simply starting a blog online that says nothing negative about Islam, but "we would be better off more secular".

And they didn't let a whole gender drive until the 21st century.

That's the Islamic "Holy Land" for ya! My heart breaks for the countless lovers of freedom, equality, secularism, social justice, and rational thought, who live their lives with not even the slightest trace of liberty to speak the truth about Muhammad, Islam, or the sick Saudi government. That sounds like a lifetime of torture to me and worse than death in a Nazi concentration camp. At least in a Nazi concentration camp, I can grab the electric fence or attack a guard, and go to a gas chamber, and likely die in less than a year, I assume. Saudi-Arabia and other Theocracies would be a full life-span of torture for me, so my heart breaks for lovers of freedom, subject to such torture! Millions and millions of lives are ruined. Worse than death imo! :(
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
This was one of those rare times I wasn't actually joking. It is clearly cases of religious cultural appropriation due to the twists that Muhammad threw at near on everything he wrinkled his nose at. For example, the Islamic Jesus bear virtually no resemblance to the Christian Jesus. They may as well have been two different people. It's sort of like you or me, attempting to speak with authority, about what Baha'ullah really meant or was saying in his writings to misunderstanding Bahia's. To me, that is a bit more than simply insulting.

Because there are elements in Islam that are similar to Judaism and Christianity Muhammad was someone who borrowed from them? History has shown Muhammad was no scholar, and even when the Banu Quyrayza were going to be punished Muhammad had it done by THEIR laws. Muhammad was no scholar in Judaic or Christian law. Christians and Jews had to police themselves and use their laws to meet out punishment (This is an element in Shari'ah that people often forget). But that is besides the point to address the other things you've mentioned I often read from some Baha'i's here the presentation of Baha'i as presented by Shunyadragon, based on the notion of a persecuted minority.

"we accept different beliefs because we are more open and Islam is not accepting because they are strict and unwilling to be open to different ideas" Although this was not said but the implementation in the already exchanged ideas seems like it was. I'm not authority in Baha'i because Baha'ism is not a popular belief system just as Noahide belief is not as globally popular. That is not to say it renders itself insignificant but to make such declarations against another when your own founder was influenced by Islam is quite comical.
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
This post should be in the jokes section.

Islam is younger than either Christianity or Judaism, your “conceptual” B.S. aside.

Islam has been the force behind plenty of death and destruction.......did you just arrive on this planet?

Your opinion....Thank you for sharing. Next!
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
Not an opinion...verifiable facts. Sorry that the facts do not agree with your opinion.
@Epic Beard Man
It has been repeatedly proven that you aren't interested in facts. You are actually interested in promoting falsehood. The Qur'an proved that your "ten years of studying Islam", is a claim that is the epitome of ludicrous, because you make statements about Islam that are opposite of what the Qur'an says. It makes me wonder if your ten years of studying Islam did not include the reading of the Muslim "Holy Book".
If you did, why would you be so oblivious to the verses that are the opposite of your claims??? o_O
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
This does belong in the jokes section

Someone claims he studied Islam for ten years, yet he ignores the barbaric graphic torture, bigotry, and dehumanizing of non-muslims in the Koran.

Someone says muslims are required to respect all creatures, while Muhammad was clearly a mass-murderer, who didn't respect the rights of Polytheists, atheists, or Jews, nor did he respect the rights of a prepubescent girl, to young to consent!

@Epic Beard Man you don't respond to my posts because the Qur'an and Hadiths loudly declare my claims to be true.

It bothers me to see so many claim to be for freedom, equality, and social justice, while defending bigotry, hate, Fascism, and tyranny!

Its sad! :(

Sigh*

Sometimes I have to be an a**hole for people to understand.

I don't respond to you because as I failed to reach your mental capacity via PM concerning some issues I have with you. So I thought I was doing due diligence by simply stating that we both ought to ignore each other for the betterment of the forum in private message and I assumed (falsely) you'd be an adult and put your big boy pants on. I did not want to take the steps to physically click "ignore" because after all when you're not tripping you actually say some rational things but as of late you write as if you are in need of some medication. I initially did ignore you and clicked the "ignore" but when I make threads and read others who are addressing you, it presses my curiosity as to what ignorant things you're speaking of. Again this is my fault.

I understand you have the mental capacity of a small child so I'll make this clear....

I ignore you because you have nothing of substance to say to me anymore. You're toxic, unstable, and you write impulsively. I ignore you because I do not want to engage you in a post like what I'm doing now.You do not act like an adult and as such like I mentioned before we shouldn't talk. I read the exchange you had with another and it is imperative. You switch back from remorseful to being toxic which is symptomatic of having a bipolar behavior.

So Dude from the so-called hood let's get something clear, I don't want to talk to you. That is not to say I don't want to address what you're telling me I just don't want to talk to you. Stop acting like a nagging ex-girlfriend and simply don't engage me. I'm not a freggin planet with gravity.. I'm not sucking you in nor are my posts for you specifically.

Just.....Stop....Talking.....To...Me.

I just don't see how hard that is.

I understand reading is hard.

Math is hard.

Even understanding different cultures is hard, but dude I just thought in PM we can come to a mutual understanding and avoid each other but it seems I have to act like a ******** for you to understand that. So I again say, I have nothing to say to you. I don't want to address your quotes. I don't want to respond to none of the Dr. Seuss-cat-in-the-hat type things you address to me.

"You feel me?"

Now here is the epic challenge to you, can you not respond to this post after me just telling you that I want to ignore you?

So thanks for ruining my thread.
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
Sorry folks I suddenly lost my taste to further discuss this and respond so I apologize to the rest for not responding. I'm good on this thread.
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
Sigh*

Sometimes I have to be an a**hole for people to understand.

I don't respond to you because as I failed to reach your mental capacity via PM concerning some issues I have with you. So I thought I was doing due diligence by simply stating that we both ought to ignore each other for the betterment of the forum in private message and I assumed (falsely) you'd be an adult and put your big boy pants on. I did not want to take the steps to physically click "ignore" because after all when you're not tripping you actually say some rational things but as of late you write as if you are in need of some medication. I initially did ignore you and clicked the "ignore" but when I make threads and read others who are addressing you, it presses my curiosity as to what ignorant things you're speaking of. Again this is my fault.

I understand you have the mental capacity of a small child so I'll make this clear....

I ignore you because you have nothing of substance to say to me anymore. You're toxic, unstable, and you write impulsively. I ignore you because I do not want to engage you in a post like what I'm doing now.You do not act like an adult and as such like I mentioned before we shouldn't talk. I read the exchange you had with another and it is imperative. You switch back from remorseful to being toxic which is symptomatic of having a bipolar behavior.

So Dude from the so-called hood let's get something clear, I don't want to talk to you. That is not to say I don't want to address what you're telling me I just don't want to talk to you. Stop acting like a nagging ex-girlfriend and simply don't engage me. I'm not a freggin planet with gravity.. I'm not sucking you in nor are my posts for you specifically.

Just.....Stop....Talking.....To...Me.

I just don't see how hard that is.

I understand reading is hard.

Math is hard.

Even understanding different cultures is hard, but dude I just thought in PM we can come to a mutual understanding and avoid each other but it seems I have to act like a ******** for you to understand that. So I again say, I have nothing to say to you. I don't want to address your quotes. I don't want to respond to none of the Dr. Seuss-cat-in-the-hat type things you address to me.

"You feel me?"

Now here is the epic challenge to you, can you not respond to this post after me just telling you that I want to ignore you?

So thanks for ruining my thread.
Of course,
I would love to not respond.

However, when i see repeated falsehoods, double-standards, hypocrisy, and selective-outrage, i feel it necessary to point out the errors.

Barak Obama made similar statements about the greatest threats to liberty, equality, freedom of speech, and women's equality on our planet.

And possibly the majority of Americans believed what he and other politicians and public speakers say about tyranny and Fascism that has oppressed hundreds of millions of people, and killed, raped, enslaved, imprisoned, tortured, or disfigured God only knows how many people.

Since so many Americans believe these falsehoods to be true, I feel the need to point out the facts and renounce Fascism, tyranny, and calls to violence!
 
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Spiderman

Veteran Member
Just don't speak easily verifiable falsehoods and we can go back to the good old days where i patted you on the back and told you that you were a better person than myself! :)
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
Sorry folks I suddenly lost my taste to further discuss this and respond so I apologize to the rest for not responding. I'm good on this thread.
You could just admit your errors in judgement and apologize.

I have done that when proven wrong on RF.

There's nothing wrong with having knowledge gaps.

We are all human with faults.

I have nothing against you. You say many worthwhile things and are a valuable member of the forum. Take it easy! I want what's best for you! :)
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
Speaking of "put your big boy pants on", im only speaking against violence, tyranny, hateful bigotry, intolerance, and policies that rob countless millions of people of their liberties.

Isn't that one thing "big boys" do? :p

That's what Martin Luther King, Gandhi, and so many folks for civil-rights did!

Seems very noble to me...

....And disrespectful to the victims of tyranny to promote, justify, glorify, or defend it!
 

Ellen Brown

Well-Known Member


Very respectfully, because of my own experience in a Salafi group, here in America, my own experiences were very different. Not saying that is how it should have been, however. While active, I did learn about the good things that Muhammad PBUH did, like the Constitution of Medina, not being segregated from the men, and other things. However, my own experience was that the women were tucked away in a room upstairs and often could not even SEE the speaker. This was the case in three different Mosques I attended in Portland, Oregon, and one near Cleveland, Ohio. They were all Sunni. A Shia Mosque I attended had it such that men and women were in the same room, but with a row of book cases separating us.

Aisha was seen as the woman who gathered up the Prophet's notes and compiled them and that became the Quran.

A few times there was discussion about Surah 4:34, though I did not see women beaten.

The Mosque described in your link is one I would like to attend.

Thank you.

Khadijah
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
My own personal belief is that the author of the Natural Laws did not commit a random act. I think that by the time we get round to recognizing that we'll have a more rational mind.

There is no indication from the scientific perspective that there is any such random act regardless of whether God exists or not.

I do not believe Creation involves anything random. Creation would be inherent in the attributes of God expressed in our physical existence.
 
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Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
The problem remains concerning the conflicting diversity of how different Christians consider the interpretation of the 'Spirit of the Word,' which is different and conflicting with your beliefs.

Still needs more explanation concerning what is the 'elect.' and why you believe your 'interpretation is true and all others false.' What is your 'elect' source.

Seeing you have no idea about God's elect and the Very Elect. They were chosen by God millions of years ago.

Seeing you have no idea what the Spirit of the word is. Not even many Christians have any idea what the Spirit of the word is.

"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned" 1st Corinthians 2:14

Many Christians will go about trying to say the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is this or that.
Not realizing that Christ Jesus has foretold in the book of Mark 13 what the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is.
And when it will happen.
And who can commit it.

It's all there in Mark chapter 13.
Now let's see if you can figure out what the Spirit of the word is saying ?

Christ Jesus did say, that the words that he speaks are Spirit.

" It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life"
John 6:63

Oh by the way, Who do you suppose Christ Jesus is speaking to, in the above verse ?

And in Mark chapter 13, Who exactly is Christ Jesus speaking to ?
 
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shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Seeing you have no idea about God's elect and the Very Elect. They were chosen by God millions of years ago.

Seeing you have no idea what the Spirit of the word is. Not even many Christians have any idea what the Spirit of the word is.

"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned" 1st Corinthians 2:14

Many Christians will go about trying to say the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is this or that.
Not realizing that Christ Jesus has foretold in the book of Mark 13 what the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is.
And when it will happen.
And who can commit it.

Phffffffffft . . . . Plop!
 
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