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Featured Why Islam makes more sense conceptually of all the Abrahamic faiths

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Epic Beard Man, Jul 16, 2018.

  1. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    Very controversial topic and for the record, this is not to devalue Judaism or Christianity considering both have important roots from within Islam. This subject is purely my opinion based on the ten plus years of study of Islam, philosophy and its metaphysics.

    Without getting into a scriptural debate since this subject is not about debating scripture I’d rather focus on some important points that would make Islam more of a middle and moderate belief system a few points about God:

    1) Allah, or God in the Islamic perception is seen as the God of humanity. Although in Jewish philosophy Ha’Shem or YHVH is considered “Master of the World” as I was told, historically and even some of the orthodox lectures from Rabbis seem to present God as centralized to a specific people as opposed to the species of humankind. Allah is one, the Creator of all planets and galaxies. Allah is the Lord of all of the things that existence and that doesn’t and that is in between.

    2) Allah like Ha’Shem, is genderless. God is not human and unlike Christianity, God does not need to transform into a human being to save mankind. However, unlike Judaism Islam does not demand 600 plus laws upon individuals, rather the basic minimum for a believer. Islam requires all human beings to respect each other and respect living beings and creatures.

    Regarding Study

    Averroes once implied in his lectures that Islam imparts the obligation for all believers to question and examine reality for God’s existence. Without simply blindly denying God, one must examine the processes of how things perform and then and only then one will find God’s handiwork.

    Regarding Ethics

    Unlike Christianity, there is no original sin, therefore, whatever sins you accumulate are of your own doing and of your own soul. Unlike Judaism to be pious one does not need to observe additional laws to conduct oneself although there are sayings in which are suggestive in emulating Muhammad the prophet, these sayings are variant opinions based on the ideas and research from Islamic scholars.

    On good and evil Allah is the author of both. Good and evil either come about by individual action, independent action (such as neutral good and evil-that is, actions that result in good and evil are independent of action by the individual for example a tornado that destorys a house and kills a family is independent of human action but can be perceived as bad or evil based on the suffering and or/death). Then there is Allah purposefully inflicting bad things happen to affect and challenge your faith.

    The acceptance of prophets

    Islam requires the recognition of all prophets from all nations. That means even not mentioned in scripture, if historically one finds monotheistic prophets from different parts of the world one can infer via study, one can study the potential of various prophets that aren’t mentioned in scriptures.

    Although this is an opinion, this brief synopsis has shown some important examples.
     
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  2. PopeADope

    PopeADope Habemus papam

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    That is far from true!

    The Qur'an says some words of peace, but also many calls to violence as well as sadistic tortures, crucifixions, mutilation, burnings, and hacking off the hands and feet of infidels.

    A serial killer is not justified by writing some words of peace or doing good deeds.

    Muhammad slayed Idolators, Jews, and other non-muslims.

    The Koran says "slay Idolators wherever you find them".

    Muhammad destroyed shrines and Idols sacred to Polytheists.

    That is not "respecting human beings", that is bigotry, cruelty, hatred, torture, and tyranny in it's ugliest forms!

    Groups like ISIS are in many ways following the Koran and the example of Muhammad, and this is proven in the Qur'an and lifestyle of the Prophet!
     
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  3. PopeADope

    PopeADope Habemus papam

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    I only speak such things out of love for freedom, social justice, compassion, and the golden rule.
     
  4. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    What you speak of is a personal witness and does NOT reflect the history of Christianity nor the relationship with those who believe differently.
     
  5. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    The problem is asserting a 'conceptual' view in conflict with reality.

    Your argument is an idealistic view of Islam, and neglects the problematic history of Islam which is a common problem with Judaism and Christianity in particular the relationship with those who believe differently.

    As a Baha'i I accept Islam as founded on Revelation for a given age like Christianity and Judaism. The problem remains for all three Abrahamic religions as whether they offer the potential of leadership and guidance for humanity for the contemporary world. By the evidence they all fail. First, the exclusiveness and finality of their claims alienates the believers of other belief systems, and the resulting conflict and violence in the world is destructive to the spiritual and physical advancement of humanity.

    Given the history of Judaism, Christianity and Islam, as stand alone religions and their claims, without alternatives atheism or agnosticism are more logical and reasonable alternative.

    The Baha'i Faith is a reasonable alternative for the Theist, but possibly not the only possibility.
     
    #5 shunyadragon, Jul 16, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2018
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  6. PopeADope

    PopeADope Habemus papam

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    No Religion that promotes barbaric vicious tortures, mutilation, and disfigurement of human beings makes any sense.

    By modern standards, that is considered psychopathic! If American soldiers tortured terrorists in prison, the way Muhammad speaks of torturing and mutilating his enemies, there would be outrage all over the media in America, and rightfully so!

    There is a time where the loving thing for the community is to imprison or kill a terrorist or shooter, to protect others.

    There is NEVER a time it is okay to hack off their hands and feet, pour boiling water on them, or other vicious sadistic tortures, as is glorified in the Qur'an.

    When Christians start talking about non-christians being cast into a "lake of fire", it makes me just as sick!
     
  7. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    Hmmm. I'll have to think about what you say. As a backslidden Muslim, there are parts of it that I adore, though other parts are very disappointing. I think that Fatwas and Hadeeths have been given more weight than the Quran. Hijab and Abaya give me privacy and I feel more safe under their cover. Women's rights in Islam have been severely curtailed in many places. The very idea that Sunnis and Shia would fight and kill each other for more than 1400 years is shameful, and makes Islam the laughing stock of the world. I am still Muslim.
     
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  8. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    You are hinting on the common problem with ancient belief systems like Judaism, Christianity and Islam. The history of Christianity also justifies glorifies equally horrific vicious sadistic attitudes toward those who believe differently in history.

    This is sort of problematic of the belief system you have.
     
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  9. PopeADope

    PopeADope Habemus papam

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    If every Muslim had your attitude, I would say nothing negative about Islam.
     
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  10. Deidre

    Deidre اتبع القلب

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    The view on women is problematic for me. Why would a genderless god promote misogyny? And if you say that comes from the followers, they must be getting the idea that their god expects them to treat women as inferior to men. (which they will say supports their beliefs)

    Islam has a lot of beauty within it but a lot of problems.
     
    #10 Deidre, Jul 16, 2018
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  11. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    Unfortunately this would be true for Judaism and Christianity, but it is a very naive, unrealistic, and idealistic dream.

    To add again: The problem is asserting a 'conceptual' view in conflict with reality.
     
    #11 shunyadragon, Jul 16, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2018
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  12. PopeADope

    PopeADope Habemus papam

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    I already have said many times, when I see Christians talking about non-christians being tossed into a lake of fire, it makes me just as sick as reading similar things in the Qur'an!

    Im more fond of the golden rule, Shinto practices, and listening to my conscience, while rejecting hatred, cruelty, homophobia, misogyny, or sadism in the Bible.

    One thing that I like about Jesus is he didn't raise up an army to defend him, he said not to stone adulterers, he said "love your enemies", and forgave those who crucified him.

    But I don't promote the Bible, because i see too much hate and cruelty there as well!
     
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  13. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Greased up & ready for action!
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    Does 2+2=5 make more sense than 2+2=3 ?
     
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  14. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
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    Well since organizationally they all have a disconnect from nature I would say it's a city problem
     
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  15. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

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    I still insist Judaism is really the only one that makes sense as it is what the Abrahamic religions are primarily based on, but yet all the others get the basic fundamentals so wrong.
     
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  16. PopeADope

    PopeADope Habemus papam

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    It bothers me when entire nations or regimes make it law that women have to wear burkas (sometimes covering their face) or they get sexually assaulted.
    I don't know of any Christian countries that do that to women in the 21st century, but such laws have dominated multiple nations and countless millions of people in the 21st century. I'd rather be dead than live under such a regime. Some things are worse than death, and that torture of dark-aged misogynist Theocracy, is one of them!

    What really p*sses me off and makes my blood boil is when they mutilate and disfigure people. Mutilating and disfiguring people is promoted in the Qur'an, which explains why it is seen more in 21st century Islam as opposed to 21st century Christianity.

    Aisha suffered early in life, losing her mother and forced into marriage as a teenager.[1] In a practice known as baad, Aisha's father promised her to a Taliban fighter when she was 12 years old as compensation for a killing that a member of her family had committed. She was married at 14 and subjected to abuse. At 18 she fled the abuse but was caught by police, jailed for five months, and returned to her family.[2] Her father returned her to her husband's family. To take revenge on her escape, her father-in-law, husband, and three other family members took Aisha into the mountains, cut off her nose and her ears, and left her to die
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bibi_Aisha
    (Here is a picture of her mutilated face. An otherwise attractive human being)
    kkk.jpg
     
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  17. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    I believe most people create a version of their religion they feel comfortable with. There are many comforting humanistic qualities surrounding the Abrahamic beliefs. However I see the morality of these beliefs coming from an earlier more barbaric time. Some of the ideas they found acceptable, we can't. This is always going to cause an internal moral conflict unless you can find way to adjust your understanding of what were immoral acts in the modern view of morality. So folks either create a narrative they can feel comfortable with or they end up looking elsewhere.
     
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  18. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    This to common a view of ancient world views declaring 'or way is the right way' and all others are wrong shared by the many divisions of their belief systems.

    The main problem with Judaism, like other ancient beliefs, it requires a very narrow view of the spiritual reality of a 'Source' some call God(s) that blesses only the chosen followers of the 'true' way and scripture. Judaism believes in the narrowist perspective of all, limiting Revelation to only one set of ancient scripture of questionable provenance, and rejecting all others in the great diversity of the history of humanity. Judaism in their narrow exclusive beliefs essentially alienates them selves from the rest of the world.
     
  19. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    This is a good post! Yes, the sense of belonging and community take priority or being 'comfortable' with their belief itself over considerations of anything else.
     
  20. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    There is an issue, especially with the Abrahamic faiths, where men seem to get a pass on dissing women. Physiologically, because of Testosterone, men think about sex very often. Women do the same thing but their sex drive is far less oppressive.

    So, the incident with the Apple in the Garden of Eden is a crafty way to blame women for sin. And keep in mind that the book of Genesis got passed around the camp fire for how many thousands of years before it was written down? Was that in Cuneiform 5500 years ago, or in some pre-Hebrew language somewhere in the BC times?

    In the Old Testament, you'll have to look it up, women were required to live in a tent outside the camp during her menses. Men sneakily used that to build the excuse that women were inferior, when I think it was simply a matter of hygiene. The same applied to the consumption of Pork, and I still avoid it.

    AND, in Islam there is the idea that there are more women in Jehenna than men. In doing a bit of research, I find that, especially with the Shia, this has become a bone of contention. Perhaps that idea will die of embarrassment?
     
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