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Featured Why is the right wing more religious?

Discussion in 'Religions Q&A' started by Dan Mellis, Jun 6, 2019.

  1. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

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    ...come on, now... Seriously?
     
  2. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member
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    How can you say MOST conservative compartmentalize things??? That is absurd.
     
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  3. dfnj

    dfnj Well-Known Member

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    People on the left are not looking for "a new daddy". Why do you get to define what it means to be a liberal Democrat? This would be like me saying conservative right wingers are just looking for a God-like strong bully leader they can worship in authority because they are incapable of thinking for themselves.
     
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  4. dfnj

    dfnj Well-Known Member

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    Most conservatives I meet think their own opinions are "facts" while other people's opinions are "wrong", "lies", or "falsehoods". Just because someone has a different opinion than you do does not make it immediately "wrong." It think conservatives are like born-again Christians in the sense that the more people who share their dogma the more they are convinced their dogma is not delusion.
     
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  5. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member
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    It was an idiotic statement.
     
  6. dfnj

    dfnj Well-Known Member

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    Which one? Modern day propaganda is very sophisticated in that it makes the person think the views they have about politics and religion are them thinking for themselves. But in actuality, their views are programmed according to very well known techniques:



    Think of this way. Just take one election, say the 2020 presidential election, and vote Democrat if you are a Republican. And vote Republican if you are Democrat. If the very idea of voting for the party you don't normally vote for makes you physically ill, then there's a good chance you've been programmed by propaganda.
     
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  7. Mindmaster

    Mindmaster Well-Known Member
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    They certainly do.. beyond that talking of the right in terms of the most extreme of it's proponents is absurdity... Most conservatives are "right-center" or "middle-right" and not the "religious right", but everyone here seems to be frustrated with the smallest percentage of right in total. (The religious right...) The "alt-right" is a media fiction created by the liberal media, so I'm not even discussing that.

    When I say "compartmentalize" I mean that conservatives are willing to work with all of those others, even though they agree on little -- they're willing to work for the small bits that they do. (This is the cause of the weird LGBT stance position, with most of the right being completely fine with it/supportive, and a small vocal minority rejecting it.) Surprisingly, they're even willing to work with Democrats most of the time of the issues they agree with. This is a vastly different perspective than I've witnessed with most liberals in modern times -- you either swallow what they're shoveling whole or they're throwing you under the bus or embracing enmity. Even with that said, I don't think progressives represent the majority of Democrats in their beliefs either -- though the progressives are currently working to force out the middle-left and the center-left in the party. It's more of a wait and see on that one...

    Certainly, either party has a capacity for partisan antics, but I'm not talking that so much as the voter base and individuals.
     
  8. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein ᛘᛁᛏᚾᛁᚴᚼᛏ᛫ᛋᚢᚾ
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    Or you just don't hate yourself enough to vote for a party that hates you, along with hating science. I vote Democratic because they're less insane than the Republicans, although both are garbage.
     
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  9. Mindmaster

    Mindmaster Well-Known Member
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    From my position, yes they are...

    They want daddy to give them:

    1) Money
    2) Healthcare
    3) Keep them safe by taking away all the guns
    4) Tax everything to pay for "the madness"
    5) Keep the "environment" clean (Isn't it your job to clean up your mess?)
    6) Indoctrinate their children in morals and thought in school

    (in fairness, 6 applies to the religious right as well, but it's unanimous on the left, especially on issues of LGBT, Abortion, and etc... On the right, there are a lot of people who just want a secular education that doesn't include these topics -- they feel the parents should handle them.)

    etc...

    This is the exactly the capacity a "daddy" serves in your pre-Adult life. When I grew up I expected to be self-sufficient and provide all of these things to myself and my family, and I still don't want or need anyone to do them for me as they will not do them better from my perspective.
     
  10. Mindmaster

    Mindmaster Well-Known Member
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    I vote per-candidate not per-party. Neither vote for the religious right whackos or the extremely progressive lunatics.
     
  11. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member
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    I was a republican for 35 years until we invaded Iraq. Don't pee on my leg and tell me its raining.
     
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  12. rocala

    rocala Active Member

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    This is probably a cultural thing but where I come from 'liberals' are not the 'left wing'.
     
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  13. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member
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    How are Trump's efforts to gut the EPA coming along?
     
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  14. Hop David

    Hop David Member

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    I am Catholic and regard myself as fairly liberal. Our parish in Ajo has provided a venue for Ajo Samaritans, folks who leave food and water caches to the desert. Carol Johnson is prominent in our parish. She owns the barn that Scott Warren was arrested at.

    Often effective proponents for social justice has worked through religion. Martin Luther King was a Baptist minister.

    Another popular myth is that religious people are anti-science. A cartoon I've drawn:

    [​IMG]

    Protecting the club house are celebrity "scientists" who haven't done much.

    On the bottom left to right: Max Planck, James Clerk Maxwell, Arthur Eddington, Georges Lemaître, Kurt Gödel and Isaac Newton. The folks on the bottom were Christians.

    By demonizing believers the new atheists have alienated potential allies. Many believers have come to perceive science as hostile. How many potential Newtons or Plancks has Tyson, Krauss, Dawkins et al run off from the science club house?

    I believe the new atheists are doing a grave disservice to social justice and scientific progress.
     
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  15. The Hammer

    The Hammer Well-Known Member

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    Both right wing politics and the Bible/Christian Deity were chronicled/philosophized in such a way as to leave them prone to manipulation by authoritarian figures. So you find both of those two things coalescing in politics. Not that there aren't left leaning authoritarians, as there are.
     
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  16. Hop David

    Hop David Member

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    I guess that's why the Christian west led the world in the transition from monarchies to republics with checks and balances to prevent concentration of power.


    The terms "left" and "right" mean different things to different people. I'll note that some of the most odious oligarchies existing today are atheist states.
    AtheistStateNorthKorea.jpg
     
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  17. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Ditto, but my guess is that I'm probably even further to the left than you as I'm on the lunatic left-wing fringe. :emojconfused:

    Fundamentalist Protestants and JW's tend to be more anti-science, but mainstream Protestants, Catholics, Anglicans, and Orthodox generally are not.

    BTW, welcome here to RF as I don't remember seeing any of your posts before, as I've been terribly busy lately.
     
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  18. The Hammer

    The Hammer Well-Known Member

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    They are atheistic in the sense that they put all of their chips on one person and treat them as a god (authoritarian dictatorship). These people quell religion eventually because that causes people to think freely and deeply, as long as they are not constrained to think a certain way (doctrines are not important), people are free* to spiritually and emotional grow, which by nature will effect politics. The crux of the issue is whether or not a population is allowed to critically think, or are they told how to think.

    *Free from outside influence of others.

    Edit: it was the dogmatic Christian west that has caused a rise in authoritarian politics as of late. It was the Deistic Christian west that founded "The West." It was also the dogmatic Christian authoritarian monarchies that the Deistic Christians that founded the US were running from.
     
  19. Dan Mellis

    Dan Mellis Thorsredballs

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    North Korea is atheist in name only. They're literally forced into worshipping whoever is in power as a god on earth. Its worth nothing that left wing, *secular* states tend to score much higher on the happiness index, quality of life index than conservative, more religious countries. They usually also have lower infant morality rates, lower teenage pregnancy rates, lower STD/STI rates and longer life expectancies. That's in the west, and applies to fairly moderate socialist states rather than communist or ex-communist states.

    Of course there are exceptions... unfortunately they are also exceptions in the realm of dictatorships and oligarchies. Lets consider the UAE, Syria etc. They most certainly are not secular.
     
  20. Shiranui117

    Shiranui117 Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee
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    Thanks for the history lesson, but I honestly have absolutely zero idea where all this stuff about Reaganomics and minimum wage comes from in a conversation about why conservatives have more religious folk than liberals. I was just referencing data about the different moral foundations that liberals, moderates and conservatives have.

    Jonathan Haidt's Moral-Political Psychology
    "The third and primary empirical point of Haidt's talk is about his own research on the five moral value systems that he argues underlie the liberal-conservative political dimension: 1) Care for Others/Do no harm; 2) Fairness/Justice/Equality; 3) In-Group Loyalty; 4) Respect for Authority; and 5) Purity. His research shows-across large numbers of people and many different countries-that there are very reliable differences in the degree to which liberals and conservatives differ in the extent to which they endorse these values. Conservatives tend to value the five domains relatively equally. Liberals, in contrast, value the first two domains much more than the latter three.

    Haidt's final point is we need metacognitive awareness about "the Moral Matrix". Speaking to a group dominated by liberals, Haidt argues that we should be very aware that such a group (and disciplines like psychology) likely have massive biases against conservative viewpoints. Moreover, Haidt argues (or implies), conservatives actually have a more complicated moral system, consisting all of the five values, whereas liberals are dominated by just two. He asks that we step outside our systems and understand the other point of view."

    ‘The Righteous Mind,’ by Jonathan Haidt
    "These moral systems aren’t ignorant or backward. Haidt argues that they’re common in history and across the globe because they fit human nature. He compares them to cuisines. We acquire morality the same way we acquire food preferences: we start with what we’re given. If it tastes good, we stick with it. If it doesn’t, we reject it. People accept God, authority and karma because these ideas suit their moral taste buds. Haidt points to research showing that people punish cheaters, accept many hierarchies and don’t support equal distribution of benefits when contributions are unequal.

    You don’t have to go abroad to see these ideas. You can find them in the Republican Party. Social conservatives see welfare and feminism as threats to responsibility and family stability. The Tea Party hates redistribution because it interferes with letting people reap what they earn. Faith, patriotism, valor, chastity, law and order — these Republican themes touch all six moral foundations, whereas Democrats, in Haidt’s analysis, focus almost entirely on care and fighting oppression. This is Haidt’s startling message to the left: When it comes to morality, conservatives are more broad-minded than liberals. They serve a more varied diet.

    This is where Haidt diverges from other psychologists who have analyzed the left’s electoral failures. The usual argument of these psycho-pundits is that conservative politicians manipulate voters’ neural roots — playing on our craving for authority, for example — to trick people into voting against their interests. But Haidt treats electoral success as a kind of evolutionary fitness test. He figures that if voters like Republican messages, there’s something in Republican messages worth liking. He chides psychologists who try to “explain away” conservatism, treating it as a pathology. Conservatism thrives because it fits how people think, and that’s what validates it. Workers who vote Republican aren’t fools. In Haidt’s words, they’re “voting for their moral interests.”
     
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