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Why is legend considered fantasy?

Theweirdtophat

Well-Known Member
I feel like that some people mix these two up. Why would someone dismiss something because it's just a legend, as if to assume it's a fantasy? We know what's fantasy like in fiction but legend isn't fantasy. Legends are legend? They are debatable while fantasy isn't debatable. And there is always some truth in legends. Otherwise they wouldn't be legends in the first place.Like with Jesus or with the Golem or other certain legendary creatures which could have existed. I think that not having enough evidence doesn't mean something doesn't exist. For all we know those legendary creatures did exist and we just haven't found the evidence yet. If we never discovered dinosaurs, does that mean dinosaurs never existed? No they existed whether we discovered it or not? Who's to say certain creatures like the unicorn or centaur or elf didn't exist at one point in time? We don't know but it isn't wise to dismiss legends entirely. Sometimes there's more truth in legends than hin history, though.
 
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Eliab ben Benjamin

Active Member
Premium Member
I agree, reminds me of a teacher telling me the Minator of Grecian legend was not
possible as interspecies gestation was biologically impossible ...

On hearing of this misinformation my mother took me to the Medical Museum in
Manchester ,,, where she showed me an exhibit of 5 puppy / human infants in Jars
all disfigured by the cross-species deformities ... astounding the woman mother
had apparently been committed to the old fashioned insane asylum ...
 

Rapha

Active Member
Exaggeration usually kills the value of the truth.

Example: who would believe me if i said that 'walking to work during the days of Atlantis and almost getting pushed off the dirt track by a hoard of crazy centuars rushing to their offices, during the morning rush hour', was quite a normal event ?

Answer: No one

Yet, asking an angel or watcher the same question will probably make them laugh as they remember very well what life was like back then.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
I feel like that some people mix these two up.
That is likely due to the embellishments given to events, things and people as each wends its way into legendary status. Prior to legendary one is still in the real of fabled, old wives tales, tall tales, etc. Being legendary does not immediately grant special status that a given then is more real, it just means that more people find that given thing enchanting enough to continue the telling of the tales. Again, legends are not necessarily about real things, events or people but could simply be the products of exceptional storytellers who captivated their audiences of yesteryear and for generations thereafter. It's hard to kill a good meme.

Why would someone dismiss something because it's just a legend, as if to assume it's a fantasy?
We dismiss them when we understand that without corroborating evidence outside the legends we have only the elaborate tales themselves - which isn't much to hang ones hat on. There is no penalty for believing that legends may be real, Atlantis is a great example, but those who choose to believe strongly in the veracity of the tales also must understand that they have entered into the realm of wishful thinking and suspension of disbelief.

We know what's fantasy like in fiction but legend isn't fantasy. Legends are legend?
It's more a question of probability, really. Also there is nothing that says a legend cannot be pure fantasy, so to say that legend isn't fantasy isn't being honest.

They are debatable while fantasy isn't debatable. And there is always some truth in legends.
The idea that legends always have some truth in them is highly debatable and is an assumption that actually has no solid ground to base itself on. Some legends DID form around real events, people and things, that we have corroborating evidence of, most legends have nothing but a long history to support them.

Otherwise they wouldn't be legends in the first place.Like with Jesus or with the Golem or other certain legendary creatures which could have existed.
Just because something is possible does not mean that it is particularly probable.

I think that not having enough evidence doesn't mean something doesn't exist.
Of course it doesn't. It simply means we have no evidence. The flip-side of this unsavory coin is that because there is no evidence of a given thing one should be wary of believing in it if it is not a particularly probable thing.

If we never discovered dinosaurs, does that mean dinosaurs never existed? No they existed whether we discovered it or not?
Interesting thinking here. If we had not found evidence that dinosaurs existed we would never know because we did not inhabit the earth until long, long, long after they had been exterminated. There were no tales unless you want to take fanciful tales of dragons literally. There are no legends about creatures like T-rex or velociraptors etc... or even the mild mannered Brontosaurus.
brontosaur.jpg


Who's to say certain creatures like the unicornoor centaur orelf didn't exist at one point in time? We don't know but it isn't wise to dismiss legends entirely. Sometimes there's more truth in legends than hin history, though.
Considering how much we have dug up from the past, with each passing day, each of these things becomes less and less probable. If we ever find a live Pixie or Pixie bones it will certainly be a sensation.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
I feel like that some people mix these two up

I think this is an excuse to pander rhetoric, that some mythology is real.

Legends are stories that grow. Growth means fiction/fantasy.

Some legends can be 100% mythological

Some legends cane have a historical core.

So your OP more then anything shows your lack of knowledge on the definition itself. It shows you don't understand exactly what a legend is.


http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/legend

a : a story coming down from the past; especially : one popularly regarded as historical although not verifiable

b : a body of such stories <a place in the legend of the frontier>

c : a popular myth of recent origin

d : a person or thing that inspires legends

e : the subject of a legend <its violence was legend even in its own time — William Broyles Jr.>
 

outhouse

Atheistically
:facepalm:
Sometimes there's more truth in legends than hin history, though.

Ah there it is! the rhetoric.

And its just not true. Legend does not Imply truth of any kind, but thanks for showing us all you take the definition out of context

If it was true it would be history, not legend
 

Erebus

Well-Known Member
Legends can certainly be a useful tool for exploring history. Which tales a culture tells often enough to pass into legend can give us an insight into that culture's values, fears and aspirations. To dismiss legends as useless fiction* would be foolish.

However, you have to look for the right thing when examining a legend. It's probably not a good idea to say, "well the Greeks had that legendary Minotaur, so at one point there must have been a bull-headed man wandering about." Instead, you're better off asking "what does the Minotaur represent? How was it fought? Was it a monster or a victim?" as those questions will give you a lot more insight into ancient Greek culture.

Try thinking about this in terms of one of our own tales. If in 3000 years an archaeologist digs up a copy of Frankenstein, how should they look at the text? The fact that Frankenstein has been retold again and again in our culture doesn't mean that somewhere there's an undead creature terrorizing a doctor.

*Incidentally I'd ask anybody who considers fiction useless to take a long hard look at themselves ... preferably from somewhere far away.
 

Theweirdtophat

Well-Known Member
:facepalm:

Ah there it is! the rhetoric.

And its just not true. Legend does not Imply truth of any kind, but thanks for showing us all you take the definition out of context

If it was true it would be history, not legend

Have you not heard that history is written by the winners?

There's some false stuff in history. It being written in a history book, doesn't mean it actually happened in history.

Yeah legend does imply some truth. Legends have to begin somewhere. How can something be legendary if there wasn't SOME truth to it?
 

Nietzsche

The Last Prussian
Premium Member
Have you not heard that history is written by the winners?
Define "winner" and define "written". See, the "winner" is not always the same group of people, not to mention you're implying some kind of conspiratorial bias that simply doesn't hold any water if you think about it for more than a few seconds.

There's some false stuff in history. It being written in a history book, doesn't mean it actually happened in history.
Oh. Do please continue.
 

Theweirdtophat

Well-Known Member
Define "winner" and define "written". See, the "winner" is not always the same group of people, not to mention you're implying some kind of conspiratorial bias that simply doesn't hold any water if you think about it for more than a few seconds.


Oh. Do please continue.

What does this have to do with conspiracies? It's well known that history is written by winners such as in wars. Of course the winners are going to make themselves look like good guys in comparison to the enemy. For example, the Civil War, which was not fought over for slavery. The North was being rather oppressive, European countries wouldn't trade with the North and favored the South. It wasn't for slavery because the North had slaves, too. Not as many but they had some here and there. And it wasn't even technically a Civil War in the first place.

A civil war is fought within a country. The Confederacy wasn't trying to secede, they ALREADY seceded and the North technically invaded. They also don't tell you the North put journalists who spoke against the war in jail, burned towns, raped women, took away livestock as the North wanted to cripple the South. And Abraham Lincoln was certainly not the greatest leader and was downright oppressive. I'm not comparing him to Hitler or Stalin, but he never cared about freeing slaves. He was presented with multiple bills about anti slavery which did not get support from him. There's even quotes of him saying he never cared about the blacks. He only freed the slaves because it was in his favor. It was more than just to look like a good guy.

I would continue but some things might go over your head. Or you just would refuse to believe it. But then this thread isn't about the Civil War. I'm just using an example.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
Have you not heard that history is written by the winners?

Because it is written, factually does not make it history. :rolleyes:


There's some false stuff in history

No there is not or it would not be history.

There are people who believe in pseudohistory and there are people ignorant of any historical method.

It being written in a history book, doesn't mean it actually happened in history.

Show me a academic history book that makes these statements of certainty. They don't that is not how history is explained or taught.


Your just showing us all how little you understand the historical methods.

It would help if you actually research something and knew a little about it, before debating on it.
 

Theweirdtophat

Well-Known Member
Legends however are to be debated. Legends will have some exaggerations but that does mean it is all fantasy. In the future, we may very well discover the remains of a centaur, elf, ect.
 

Theweirdtophat

Well-Known Member
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederate_States_of_America

What do you call this? Wikipedia gives the basic information, but if the Civil War was within the same country, there wouldn't be a Confederate States of America. The Confederate States had their own little government and leader as well. They weren't trying to secede from the Union, they ALREADY seceded, therefore it is false to call it a Civil War. the North technically invaded another country.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
Legends however are to be debated. Legends will have some exaggerations but that does mean it is all fantasy. In the future, we may very well discover the remains of a centaur, elf, ect.

This is just an exercise, on the fact you did not understand the definition of legend. Does it say all fantasy anywhere? Does it say they are not debated?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/legend

a : a story coming down from the past; especially : one popularly regarded as historical although not verifiable

b : a body of such stories <a place in the legend of the frontier>

c : a popular myth of recent origin

d : a person or thing that inspires legends

e : the subject of a legend <its violence was legend even in its own time — William Broyles Jr.>
 

Theweirdtophat

Well-Known Member
We know Superman doesn't exist. Centaurs are to be debated.

Many mythological creatures tend to be half breeds. Anyone notice that? The Centaur is half human half horse. Perhaps these half breeds, like the mule, couldn't procreate, which is why the remains of these half breeds are more rare.
 

dust1n

Zindīq
I feel like that some people mix these two up. Why would someone dismiss something because it's just a legend, as if to assume it's a fantasy? We know what's fantasy like in fiction but legend isn't fantasy. Legends are legend? They are debatable while fantasy isn't debatable. And there is always some truth in legends. Otherwise they wouldn't be legends in the first place.

Presumably because legends contain far more fictitious material than they do non-fictitious materials, and given that fantasies are imaginings about things that are likely improbably, and most legends contain many things that are likely improbable, it's not really that unreasonable of a comparison.
 

Theweirdtophat

Well-Known Member
Presumably because legends contain far more fictitious material than they do non-fictitious materials, and given that fantasies are imaginings about things that are likely improbably, and most legends contain many things that are likely improbable, it's not really that unreasonable of a comparison.

We know for certain Superman and other characters are fantasy. Even if they are based on real life people, those characters and worlds are fantasy. Legendary races like elves, are debatable. The idea that humans once shared the Earth with other races other than human isn't impossible.
 
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