Why is Jesus not the messiah?

[Toxikmynd]

I'm not Christian, and I know that I can find this myself, but I would like the outlook from some other Jewish perspectives?

 

[Tarheeler]

Simply put because he didn't fulfill the messianic prophecies. And he wasn't the only one.

There have been many people who have claimed to be the messiah but failed to fulfill the prophecies.

 

[rosends]

I'm not Christian, and I know that I can find this myself, but I would like the outlook from some other Jewish perspectives?

He had neither the personal lineage nor the general characteristics necessary. He was not the type of person to be the messiah and this has been confirmed as, in hindsight, we see he did nothing to show that he was the messiah.

 

[Eliab ben Benjamin]

And some who didn't claim it but others claimed it for them, like Shimon Bar Kosibah.
who certainly came closer but still failed ...

 

[Harmonious]

Among the things the Messiah is supposed to do... He's supposed to coax, cajole, command, or somehow otherwise convince the majority of Jews extant - if no all - to move to Israel. During Jesus' lifetime, the majority of world Jewry lived in Babylonia.

The family history is a big one. There has to be a father to son dynastic connection between King David and the Messiah. It isn't clear who Jesus' father is. Christians insist God is. I'm quite willing to believe a Roman soldier fathered him. Regardless... If his biological father isn't descended from King David, then a man isn't the Messiah.

One of the things the Messiah is supposed to do is to bring about world peace. I think that in the history of the world, there were about 12 years of world peace, and they were during the reign of King Solomon. While Pax Romana was impressive, the fact is that it wasn't a real world peace. And the most important part of this world peace is that Israel is a sovereign, independent nation. The Roman governors were known for their oppression of Israel. No matter what Jesus declared about his intentions, world peace did not happen in his lifetime. He wasn't the Messiah.

The Messiah, once he is recognized by the Jews, is supposed to be the King of the Jews, particularly in Israel. Now, besides in the song, "The First Noel," Jesus has NEVER been considered the king of Israel, particularly not during his lifetime. He might have been a teacher. He might have been a leader. But at best, amongst the majority of Jews living in Israel, he was a rabble rouser. He was NOT the King of Israel, or more impressively, the ruler of Israel, who used the Sanhedrin to enforce Torah law on the Jews.

There are more reasons, but these are the easiest to see and understand.

 

[Akivah]

I'm not Christian, and I know that I can find this myself, but I would like the outlook from some other Jewish perspectives?

An important concept to understand is that Judaism and Christianity have completely different definitions of many words, including messiah, salvation, sin, and atonement. So you have to put aside any Christian claims to better understand the Judaism POV because we mean different things (from Christians) when using the same words.

 

[Harmonious]

There is nothing holy about literal land and God is no respector of persons.

According to YOUR belief system, not mine.

The human is holy and the temple of God. A Gentile is a human separated from God and an Israelite is one spiritual.

Once again... According to YOUR belief system, not mine.

An Israelite can be from anywhere in the world. Not a literal heritage or nation.

No. Israelites are most specifically descended or converted into Judaism.

When the messianic seed is grown from the heart, He does bring peace and bliss and love, and a pure head and heart. To the individual.

Interesting. Lovely insight into YOUR belief system.

The 12 tribes of Israel are the 12 cranial nerves around the brain working in perfect oneness. To think of a literal heritage and race and nation and land as "special" is blasphemous.

Unless you actually take the words in the Hebrew scriptures literally. And in that case, to ignore the fact that God called Jacob, his children Israel, and called them and the land God gave them was called special and holy would be blasphemous.

The human is the holy land.

Not at all. People can be holy if their behavior makes them holy. Every human has potential, but no. People are not "land."

Just as Jacob found God at the place of Pineal, the gland right between the west and east hemispheres of brain, so should every human, regardless of race, religion, nation, heritage.

Interesting.

The entire tabernacle of God is the brain. Where the saving messianic seed grows from the heart and reaches the brain, pouring manna from heaven. (light/knowledge/wisdom/energy of God)(Holy Spirit raised within)
World peace is not literal world peace.
Peace in the body (head and heart) is where the peace is. Peace from one's created world within. Peace from conscious hell. Peace of mind.
All of the feasts are also metaphorical for happening INSIDE the body.

Interesting insight to your world view.

 

[RabbiO]

Just wondering how some of the comments are in conformance with the rules of the forum -

10. Discuss Individual Religions Forums/Same Faith Debates/"Only Sections" The DIR subforums are for the express use for discussion by that specific group. They are not to be used for debate by anyone. People of other groups or faiths may post respectful questions to increase their understanding. Questions of a rhetorical or argumentative nature or that counter the beliefs of that DIR are not permitted. DIR areas are not to be used as cover to bash others outside the faith. The DIR forums are strictly moderated and posts are subject to editing or removal.

-For any DIR or discussion sub-forum that is colored blue, non-members of that area are limited only to respectful questions, and are not allowed to make any non-question posts.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Just wondering how some of the comments are in conformance with the rules of the forum -

10. Discuss Individual Religions Forums/Same Faith Debates/"Only Sections" The DIR subforums are for the express use for discussion by that specific group. They are not to be used for debate by anyone. People of other groups or faiths may post respectful questions to increase their understanding. Questions of a rhetorical or argumentative nature or that counter the beliefs of that DIR are not permitted. DIR areas are not to be used as cover to bash others outside the faith. The DIR forums are strictly moderated and posts are subject to editing or removal.

-For any DIR or discussion sub-forum that is colored blue, non-members of that area are limited only to respectful questions, and are not allowed to make any non-question posts.

^ This!

 

[Flankerl]

I come in peace and respect your Judaism and your belief system.

Would a human be converted into an "Israelite?" Or into Judaism... I see no mention of Judaism in scripture.

If there is one God, and the word "Israel" is to be taken as a literal country and heritage... Wouldn't there be a God of Russia or a God of the United States or a God of Iran, etc. Also?

Agreed, when a natural human becomes holy/spiritual, they go from natural Gentile to spiritual Jew.

Wasn't Jacob's name changed to Israel? After he was awakened at the place of Pineal?

Sure, some are literal, most are spiritual. We are talking about God here, who is Spirit. If I taught myself or any other man taught me, I'd be wrong.

Fascinating.

10. Discuss Individual Religions Forums/Same Faith Debates/"Only Sections" The DIR subforums are for the express use for discussion by that specific group. They are not to be used for debate by anyone. People of other groups or faiths may post respectful questions to increase their understanding. Questions of a rhetorical or argumentative nature or that counter the beliefs of that DIR are not permitted. DIR areas are not to be used as cover to bash others outside the faith. The DIR forums are strictly moderated and posts are subject to editing or removal.

-For any DIR or discussion sub-forum that is colored blue, non-members of that area are limited only to respectful questions, and are not allowed to make any non-question posts.

 

[rosends]

I come in peace and respect your Judaism and your belief system.

I get the sense that the DIR rules are not about respect alone. Respecting a system which you then deny and replace with something alien is still (IMHO) not what a DIR is about.

Would a human be converted into an "Israelite?" Or into Judaism... I see no mention of Judaism in scripture.

Because scripture wasn't written in English. You won't find "Israelite" in scripture either. But if you want the Hebrew for "Jew" try the scroll of Esther 2:5

If there is one God, and the word "Israel" is to be taken as a literal country and heritage... Wouldn't there be a God of Russia or a God of the United States or a God of Iran, etc. Also?

The word "Israel" refers to a person, a national group, a tribal lineage and a place. Which you mean depends on context.

Agreed, when a natural human becomes holy/spiritual, they go from natural Gentile to spiritual Jew.

Judaism has no notion of a distinct "spiritual Jew" as opposed to anything else.

Wasn't Jacob's name changed to Israel? After he was awakened at the place of Pineal?

the name of the place was both Pini'el and Pinu'el. Neither is related to "pine cone" which is the etymology of the gland.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I come in peace and respect your Judaism and your belief system.

Observe the DIR guidelines or leave.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I'm not Christian, and I know that I can find this myself, but I would like the outlook from some other Jewish perspectives?

Why is Jesus not a sushi chef?

 

[Unification]

Fascinating.

10. Discuss Individual Religions Forums/Same Faith Debates/"Only Sections" The DIR subforums are for the express use for discussion by that specific group. They are not to be used for debate by anyone. People of other groups or faiths may post respectful questions to increase their understanding. Questions of a rhetorical or argumentative nature or that counter the beliefs of that DIR are not permitted. DIR areas are not to be used as cover to bash others outside the faith. The DIR forums are strictly moderated and posts are subject to editing or removal.

-For any DIR or discussion sub-forum that is colored blue, non-members of that area are limited only to respectful questions, and are not allowed to make any non-question posts.

Already received that from a moderator, appreciate the knowledge from you as well, thank you. I apologize if I've offended in any way. Many blessings.

 

[Unification]

I get the sense that the DIR rules are not about respect alone. Respecting a system which you then deny and replace with something alien is still (IMHO) not what a DIR is about.

Because scripture wasn't written in English. You won't find "Israelite" in scripture either. But if you want the Hebrew for "Jew" try the scroll of Esther 2:5

The word "Israel" refers to a person, a national group, a tribal lineage and a place. Which you mean depends on context.

Judaism has no notion of a distinct "spiritual Jew" as opposed to anything else.
the name of the place was both Pini'el and Pinu'el. Neither is related to "pine cone" which is the etymology of the gland.

In your opinion, I deny. I'm not very well informed on Judaism, only the basics.

Yes, Jacob's named changed to Israel. Name of a person.

I'm not familiar with that region, can you tell me where the place of "Pinu'el or Pini'el" is located geographically?

 

[RabbiO]

I'm not familiar with that region, can you tell me where the place of "Pinu'el or Pini'el" is located geographically?

I would look to the north, along the Jabbok River, east of the town of Sukkot.

 

[rosends]

In your opinion, I deny. I'm not very well informed on Judaism, only the basics.

Yes, Jacob's named changed to Israel. Name of a person.

I'm not familiar with that region, can you tell me where the place of "Pinu'el or Pini'el" is located geographically?

Bible Map: Peniel

 

[Michaelthearchangel]

Simply put because he didn't fulfill the messianic prophecies. And he wasn't the only one.

There have been many people who have claimed to be the messiah but failed to fulfill the prophecies.

What are the prophecies He did not fulfill?

 

[Harmonious]

What are the prophecies He did not fulfill?

I explained some of them. I'll reiterate what I said before.

Among the things the Messiah is supposed to do... He's supposed to coax, cajole, command, or somehow otherwise convince the majority of Jews extant - if no all - to move to Israel. During Jesus' lifetime, the majority of world Jewry lived in Babylonia.

The family history is a big one. There has to be a father to son dynastic connection between King David and the Messiah. It isn't clear who Jesus' father is. Christians insist God is. I'm quite willing to believe a Roman soldier fathered him. Regardless... If his biological father isn't descended from King David, then a man isn't the Messiah.

One of the things the Messiah is supposed to do is to bring about world peace. I think that in the history of the world, there were about 12 years of world peace, and they were during the reign of King Solomon. While Pax Romana was impressive, the fact is that it wasn't a real world peace. And the most important part of this world peace is that Israel is a sovereign, independent nation. The Roman governors were known for their oppression of Israel. No matter what Jesus declared about his intentions, world peace did not happen in his lifetime. He wasn't the Messiah.

The Messiah, once he is recognized by the Jews, is supposed to be the King of the Jews, particularly in Israel. Now, besides in the song, "The First Noel," Jesus has NEVER been considered the king of Israel, particularly not during his lifetime. He might have been a teacher. He might have been a leader. But at best, amongst the majority of Jews living in Israel, he was a rabble rouser. He was NOT the King of Israel, or more impressively, the ruler of Israel, who used the Sanhedrin to enforce Torah law on the Jews.

There are more reasons, but these are the easiest to see and understand.

 

[metis]

What are the prophecies He did not fulfill?

Here's a list of the prophecies that many of our sages believe deal with the issue of the Messiah:

The Sanhedrin will be re-established (Isaiah 1:26)

Once he is King, leaders of other nations will look to him for guidance (Isaiah 2:4)

The whole world will worship the One God of Israel (Isaiah 2:17)

He will be descended from King David (Isaiah 11:1) via King Solomon (1 Chron. 22:8–10)

The Moshiach will be a man of this world, an observant Jew with "fear of God" (Isaiah 11:2)

Evil and tyranny will not be able to stand before his leadership (Isaiah 11:4)

Knowledge of God will fill the world (Isaiah 11:9)

He will include and attract people from all cultures and nations (Isaiah 11:10)

All Israelites will be returned to their homeland (Isaiah 11:12)

Death will be swallowed up forever (Isaiah 25:8)

There will be no more hunger or illness, and death will cease (Isaiah 25:8)

All of the dead will rise again (Isaiah 26:19)

The Jewish people will experience eternal joy and gladness (Isaiah 51:11)

He will be a messenger of peace (Isaiah 52:7)

Nations will recognize the wrongs they did Israel (Isaiah 52:13–53:5)

For My House (the Temple in Jerusalem) shall be called a house of prayer for all nations (Isaiah 56:3–7)

The peoples of the world will turn to the Jews for spiritual guidance (Zechariah 8:23)

The ruined cities of Israel will be restored (Ezekiel 16:55)

Weapons of war will be destroyed (Ezekiel 39:9)

The Temple will be rebuilt (Ezekiel 40) resuming many of the suspended mitzvoth

He will then perfect the entire world to serve God together (Zephaniah 3:9)

Jews will know the Torah without Study (Jeremiah 31:33)

He will give you all the desires of your heart (Psalms 37:4)

He will take the barren land and make it abundant and fruitful (Isaiah 51:3, Amos 9:13–15, Ezekiel 36:29–30, Isaiah 11:6–9)