Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
How would I know?
I just don't see any.
And remember.....
Everything I say is a shameless untruth.
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How would I know?
I just don't see any.
And remember.....
Everything I say is a shameless untruth.
I don't believe that verse is telling to only listen to one set of teachings, to align yourself with some centrally controlled message. The following verses seems to make it clear that it's about not doing that, not saying I am of Paul, or I am of Cephas, etc.1 Corinthians 1:10....
How could they all “speak in agreement “, unless they were taught by a central group?
Look at it this way: JW’s (which is what I am) are humble enough to accept that individually, we can’t understand (much of) Scripture. Without help.
It depends how you look at it. If you run with the idea that we can never truly know anything, meaning yes we could live in a simulation, in fact, we might actually just have existed since this morning and everything we know is just "faked" into our memory. Then surely there is no such thing as truth.So truth does not exist?
I am sure many in RF have thought about, why spiritual/religious people even from the same spiritual teaching can explain the same topic so very different when they are asked. Or that even all religions/spiritual paths trying to obtain same form of truth, they are very unlikely to tell it the same way.
In your understanding what is the reason this happens?
So truth does not exist?
JW's for example, are not open to any personal interpretation of the scriptures because we are taught by those whom we believe to be "the faithful and discreet slave" whom Jesus appointed in these end times to "feed" his entire household their "food at the proper time". (Matthew 24:45)
, we are given understanding incrementally....truth is gradually supplied when it is the right time for God to reveal it. We have learned to be patient as God works things out according to his own timetable.
That way we have no dissenters and those who want to step outside the unity of our teachings, are demonstrating that they are not one of us. Our unity comes from God....from all believing one truth. (1 Corinthians 1:10)
Not when it comes to philosophical concepts.
Just to clarify, not that there aren't dissenters, but rather dissenters leave
For every 100 Jehovah's Witnesses more than 1 is disfellowshipped each year; over 80,000, with two out of every three never reinstated.
(Don't know about the two bullet points - whether that is true or not - I'm sure you will correct if in error)
- those that continue to believe Watchtower doctrine are told that whilst disfellowshipped they are condemned to everlasting destruction.
- those who become unbelievers, with no intention of returning to the Watchtower Society, realise they are unlikely to freely associate with Witness family and friends for the remainder of their lives.
This is not a dig in any form or shape. We had a person in our church who was a preterits (his wife wasn't). He eventually left of his own accord because you can't walk together unless you are agreed.
By the nature of it, if you don't believe what the JW believes, you naturally just leave or you just keep quiet about your differences.
Who interpreted the Bible for your teachers?
If the understanding of the Bible by the faithful and discreet slave is given by God incrementally, does that mean that God gets them to interpret parts of the Bible one way at one time and then a different way later when it becomes clear to the faithful slave that the first interpretation was wrong?
It does sound like a way to force unity of belief but all believing the same thing does not mean that you are all believing the truth?
I am sure @Amanaki did not mean for his thread to be a debate about the beliefs of JW’s but with his permission I will respond to your questions....
Yes, we will disfellowship dissenters because they disrupt the peace we share in common with our global brotherhood. It is an entirely Biblical practice as it was carried out in the first century congregations. (2 John 10,11; 1 Corinthians 5:9-13) The truth is not open to personal interpretation. Those who want to introduce their own ideas and promote them, cause divisions. That is not permitted. It doesn’t mean that we can’t voice any concerns, it just means that we do so in such a way that addresses those concerns humbly and scripturally.
If you want to become one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, you voluntarily accept our teachings as this is a prerequisite for baptism. Everyone who accepts the terms, (as they were required to do when the Christians first broke away from Judaism) knows that no other teachings can be introduced because there is an appointed “slave” whose job it is to “feed” his fellow slaves their “food at the proper time”. All we need to know must of necessity come through this channel. No one else is charged with dispensing this spiritual “food” and it isn’t a buffet where you pick and chose according to your own preferences. (Matthew 24:45) The menu is set and all partake of the same “food”.
Those who are disfellowshipped know exactly what it means....that they are no longer one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It means that their behavior, after many sessions with the elders to address all the circumstances, will be assessed according to the person’s response to what is always loving discipline. No one is disfellowshipped lightly...it is a last resort. No one who is repentant is ever disfellowshipped.
According to 2 John 10,11, even ‘saying a greeting’ to one who is an unrepentant sinner (a person who either takes no responsibility for their actions, or blames others for what they did) will not be acknowledged as belonging to our brotherhood until they repent. The only person standing in their way to reinstatement and family inclusion, is themselves. If there is no repentance, only justification or denial, we have no scriptural choice but to follow the Bible’s instruction.
As Jesus said....”34 Do not think I came to bring peace to the earth; I came to bring, not peace, but a sword. 35 For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36 Indeed, a man’s enemies will be those of his own household. 37 Whoever has greater affection for father or mother than for me is not worthy of me; and whoever has greater affection for son or daughter than for me is not worthy of me. 38 And whoever does not accept his torture stake and follow after me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds his soul will lose it, and whoever loses his soul for my sake will find it.” (Matthew 10:34-39)
Emotions can get in the way in these instances, but Jesus is quite clear....if you have greater affection for your family members than you have for him, and his standards, then you will be pronounced as unworthy of the benefits of his sacrifice.
That’s it.....you can’t be a square peg in a round hole.....it makes everyone uncomfortable. It robs the congregation of peace and unity. (1 Corinthians 1:10) And the one in disagreement finds no support and also feels unaccepted. No winners there.
We prefer that people be honest. No one likes a hypocrite, especially Jesus. You must have the courage of your convictions either way.....to live a lie is not to live at all. If you don’t belong, why not just leave? Can you understand that only those who are baptised (those who have publicly declared their dedication to God as a member of his ‘nation’ ) can be disfellowshipped?
If a child raised as a JW decides it’s not for them, and leaves....it’s heartbreaking, but because no vow was taken, no vow was broken. It’s their life to do with as they wish. Jehovah does not ever force anyone to make that vow....it has to be undertaken voluntarily and in full recognition as to what it means. They also understand what it means to reject God’s standards.
Family will not shun an unbaptised one, but usually because there is no longer that spiritual connection, sometimes family closeness can fade away, especially if the choices of the unbaptised family member descends into unacceptable behaviors.
It’s all about our choices....
I may not personally like mauve for my bedroom, but it isn't hypocritical for me to say, in my heart, "I may not like mauve but I love pleasing my wife" and mauve it is.
Hypocritical would be to say "I agree with everything that is said" when we are saying something totally different to someone else.
Sure there can be complications when doing something like that, but it is needed to save life.
Don't you think that if they could use a completely uncomplicated alternative that they would do that?
Im pretty convinced that the reason this was added to the bible is due to some health issues, that maybe they figured out that blood, when consumed could cause some issues or whatever. Which would explain why it was important that slaughtering animals were done in a correct way.
Also why this thing is pretty much only mentioned in regards to how to slaughter and eat animals. Besides the exception of some rituals.
God would have known that we would eventually reach a stage where transfusions would be used to save lives, So if knew that, then they could easily have added a verse saying "X. You shall not share blood".
I can't say whether or not, blood transfusions are being overused, which is what I understand with what they are saying, meaning that its sort of like when antibiotics, I think it is, that are being handed out as if it were candy, causing it to loose its effectiveness.
But in this case they might do it, because its common practice rather than, if it is needed in a specific case. So I have no issue with that, as it make sense to not do things if they are not needed and especially if it can cause more harm than good, if used incorrectly.
Could refer to eating it as well? Hench the fact that it is written among all the other food guidelines?
I don't believe that verse is telling to only listen to one set of teachings, to align yourself with some centrally controlled message. The following verses seems to make it clear that it's about not doing that, not saying I am of Paul, or I am of Cephas, etc.
I am sure many in RF have thought about, why spiritual/religious people even from the same spiritual teaching can explain the same topic so very different when they are asked. Or that even all religions/spiritual paths trying to obtain same form of truth, they are very unlikely to tell it the same way.
In your understanding what is the reason this happens?
Each person practicing a spiritual teaching will have their own understanding of the scripture, it is the wisdom level that would be different from person to person.It's not correct.
This sort of thing doesn't happen with evolution, or relativity, electrical theory, or anything else like that. The fact that it happens with religion is suggests to me that the religion they are describing is not an accurate representation of reality.
Each person practicing a spiritual teaching will have their own understanding of the scripture, it is the wisdom level that would be different from person to person.
That you find it untrue is up to you
Because it is outside of what science can prove?With things that we know are objectively true - such as relativity, for example - we do not find this phenomenon. The fact that religion seems to be a special case indicates to me that it is not true.
Because it is outside of what science can prove?