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Why is it that religious people from same faith can tell you so differently what truth is?

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
I am sure many in RF have thought about, why spiritual/religious people even from the same spiritual teaching can explain the same topic so very different when they are asked. Or that even all religions/spiritual paths trying to obtain same form of truth, they are very unlikely to tell it the same way.

In your understanding what is the reason this happens?
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
I am sure many in RF have thought about, why spiritual/religious people even from the same spiritual teaching can explain the same topic so very different when they are asked. Or that even all religions/spiritual paths trying to obtain same form of truth, they are very unlikely to tell it the same way.

In your understanding what is the reason this happens?

IMO, unless you are taught the truth by those who know it and can fully explain it, you end up being 'self taught' and any person who is self taught in matters of wisdom and spiritual comprehension, have a fool for a teacher.

To espouse your own version of a faith, based on what you want to glean from its teachings, can completely skew its message. You end up with a god that no one else worships but you. He is your own creation, not the God that he reveals himself to be in the scriptures.

JW's for example, are not open to any personal interpretation of the scriptures because we are taught by those whom we believe to be "the faithful and discreet slave" whom Jesus appointed in these end times to "feed" his entire household their "food at the proper time". (Matthew 24:45) IOW, we are given understanding incrementally....truth is gradually supplied when it is the right time for God to reveal it. We have learned to be patient as God works things out according to his own timetable.

That way we have no dissenters and those who want to step outside the unity of our teachings, are demonstrating that they are not one of us. Our unity comes from God....from all believing one truth. (1 Corinthians 1:10)
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
IMO, unless you are taught the truth by those who know it and can fully explain it, you end up being 'self taught' and any person who is self taught in matters of wisdom and spiritual comprehension, have a fool for a teacher.

To espouse your own version of a faith, based on what you want to glean from its teachings, can completely skew its message. You end up with a god that no one else worships but you. He is your own creation, not the God that he reveals himself to be in the scriptures.

JW's for example, are not open to any personal interpretation of the scriptures because we are taught by those whom we believe to be "the faithful and discreet slave" whom Jesus appointed in these end times to "feed" his entire household their "food at the proper time". (Matthew 24:45) IOW, we are given understanding incrementally....truth is gradually supplied when it is the right time for God to reveal it. We have learned to be patient as God works things out according to his own timetable.

That way we have no dissenters and those who want to step outside the unity of our teachings, are demonstrating that they are not one of us. Our unity comes from God....from all believing one truth. (1 Corinthians 1:10)
My answer is not in any way shape or form an attack on JW`s way of practicing their faith :) So don't take it personally.
But what you describe, is not that blind faith?
And if you can not think for your self, only base your knowledge of the words in the scriptures or the elders in JW`s my question then would be, How can you learn to understand your wisdom of the teaching if you only blindly believe what others tell you?

If you do not "think" for yourself in the sense of understanding what the scripture actually tells you, how can you awaken to the truth then?
 

Hellbound Serpiente

Active Member
Each are giving their own opinion of what the truth is from their unique point of view.

9-vs-6-Perspective-530x560.png
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
My answer is not in any way shape or form an attack on JW`s way of practicing their faith :) So don't take it personally.
But what you describe, is not that blind faith?
And if you can not think for your self, only base your knowledge of the words in the scriptures or the elders in JW`s my question then would be, How can you learn to understand your wisdom of the teaching if you only blindly believe what others tell you?

If you do not "think" for yourself in the sense of understanding what the scripture actually tells you, how can you awaken to the truth then?
John 14:19

Is that blind? Some may think so....yet, that’s what Jesus wants, and how we express our love to him.
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
1 Corinthians 1:10....

How could they all “speak in agreement “, unless they were taught by a central group?

Look at it this way: JW’s (which is what I am) are humble enough to accept that individually, we can’t understand (much of) Scripture. Without help.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
My answer is not in any way shape or form an attack on JW`s way of practicing their faith :) So don't take it personally.
But what you describe, is not that blind faith?
And if you can not think for your self, only base your knowledge of the words in the scriptures or the elders in JW`s my question then would be, How can you learn to understand your wisdom of the teaching if you only blindly believe what others tell you?

If you do not "think" for yourself in the sense of understanding what the scripture actually tells you, how can you awaken to the truth then?

No offense taken...;)

We of course, have ability to think for ourselves....I for one could never be a JW if I thought for one moment that what I was being taught was not the truth. Our faith is not blind....it is shared...it is the glue that makes our unity so different to every other "Christian" faith. Which means that all who accept it as truth, do so willingly and with the same resolve. It is not forced, but embraced with all our heart. It is not an empty faith, but one that is shared with Christ as our teacher and model. If someone tried to teach us something that cannot be backed up by scripture, then we would have problems in our ranks, with dissension and discord like Christendom's sects.....but that doesn't happen. Dissenters do not last because they just don't fit. Square pegs in round holes eventually don't come back.....and quite frankly, we don't miss them.

'Love among ourselves' is the identifying mark of true Christians. (John 13:34-35) Anyone who comes into our Kingdom halls immediately feels the love and unity that cannot be faked.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
1 Corinthians 1:10....

How could they all “speak in agreement “, unless they were taught by a central group?

Look at it this way: JW’s (which is what I am) are humble enough to accept that individually, we can’t understand (much of) Scripture. Without help.
I understand that study groups and speaking with each other in church or other areas followers can gather is a good thing :) My impression was that JW`s read the bible and did not ponder them self about what it means, they only read and accepted it as it was written.

If i offended JW or the followers, that was not my intention
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
No offense taken...;)

We of course, have ability to think for ourselves....I for one could never be a JW if I thought for one moment that what I was being taught was not the truth. Our faith is not blind....it is shared...it is the glue that makes our unity so different to every other "Christian" faith. Which means that all who accept it as truth, do so willingly and with the same resolve. It is not forced, but embraced with all our heart. It is not an empty faith, but one that is shared with Christ as our teacher and model. If someone tried to teach us something that cannot be backed up by scripture, then we would have problems in our ranks, with dissension and discord like Christendom's sects.....but that doesn't happen. Dissenters do not last because they just don't fit. Square pegs in round holes eventually don't come back.....and quite frankly, we don't miss them.

'Love among ourselves' is the identifying mark of true Christians. (John 13:34-35) Anyone who comes into our Kingdom halls immediately feels the love and unity that cannot be faked.
Now i understand what you tried to say in your previous answer :) Thank you @Deeje
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
If i offended JW or the followers, that was not my intention

No, we wouldn’t think that at all, @Amanaki ! You have proven yourself (developed a reputation) to be very kind.

Please, ask us anything....@Deeje can speak for me, & I can speak for her. That’s unity of thought, for sure.
 
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Nimos

Well-Known Member
We of course, have ability to think for ourselves....I for one could never be a JW if I thought for one moment that what I was being taught was not the truth. Our faith is not blind....it is shared...it is the glue that makes our unity so different to every other "Christian" faith. Which means that all who accept it as truth, do so willingly and with the same resolve. It is not forced, but embraced with all our heart.
Do you think that other Christians or Muslims would follow their religions if they thought it was wrong?

If someone tried to teach us something that cannot be backed up by scripture, then we would have problems in our ranks, with dissension and discord like Christendom's sects.....but that doesn't happen.
Sure it does, take the blood tranfusion, there is nothing in the bible that even remotely refer to anything like this. All verses you can find where blood is mentioned is either in relationship to cooking/eating or rituals of how to sacrifice it to God.

The only way JWs can make it fit, is because you read it out of context.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Do you think that other Christians or Muslims would follow their religions if they thought it was wrong?

Everyone has the freedom to choose to believe or not to believe.....this is because we all have free will. If anyone follows a religion that they do not think is truth, then what does that say about them?
I may not agree with what other faiths believe and I will express my views about that, but I will defend a person's right to believe whatever they wish. God does not take away that right. He uses it to allow us all to show him who we are, and what we choose to believe and why. He sees what is in our hearts.


Sure it does, take the blood tranfusion, there is nothing in the bible that even remotely refer to anything like this. All verses you can find where blood is mentioned is either in relationship to cooking/eating or rituals of how to sacrifice it to God.

Have you done any research on blood transfusions at all to see if they are safe and effective medically speaking?
If God gives us a law, reiterated three times to Noah, to Moses and to Christians through the apostles, then it should result in God's law being vindicated. This is an important law to God, even if it is not important to men.

How the blood is taken into the body is irrelevant. Blood transfusions were unknown in bible times. But if a patient is unable to eat by mouth, they can be fed intravenously. If an alcoholic is told by their doctor to abstain from alcohol, should he simply stop drinking it and transfuse it directly into his bloodstream because that is where it ends up, to be processed by his liver.

The following video is on the National Blood Authority's website, put out by the Australian Government....
For Media | National Blood Authority
Listen for the words "morbidity" and "mortality" in relation to the use of blood transfusions. Less than 12% of blood transfusions administered were actually considered to be beneficial.

They have been sounding the warning about the dangers of blood transfusions for some years now....we hardly ever get people who make a fuss about it anymore because it is no longer an issue. There are whole hospitals dedicated to non blood management of patients because it is safer for patients to do without it using more up to date techniques.

It pays to be a little better informed. We have a Hospital Liaison Committee in every country where surgeons with Witness patients can get advice on the best treatments in any given situation. They understand that this issue is important to us and in the process of trying to accommodate our wishes, they actually discovered that Witness patients recovered faster and with way less complications that non-Witness patients who received blood. It is no longer standard practice with doctors who have bothered to keep abreast of the latest and best medical treatments.

The only way JWs can make it fit, is because you read it out of context.

Nonsense. To "abstain" means what in your dictionary? (Acts 15:19; 28-29)
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
From my understanding of the spiritual wisdom we gain by practicing a spiritual path, and why we do seem to disagree sometimes even when following the same teachings, is because of our level of obtained wisdom, the more we cultivate the more wisdom will be obtained, and therefore if we speak with someone who has been practicing for a long time, and one who has not practiced for very long, it will be clear that the one who has practiced for a long time, has a deeper understanding of the teaching. And can use it to heighten his/her Wisdom even further, in a better way than someone who just started the path.
 

Secret Chief

nirvana is samsara
I am sure many in RF have thought about, why spiritual/religious people even from the same spiritual teaching can explain the same topic so very different when they are asked. Or that even all religions/spiritual paths trying to obtain same form of truth, they are very unlikely to tell it the same way.

In your understanding what is the reason this happens?

For me, I think it could be compared to learning to drive a car. (Stay with me). You should read the rules of the road. You should take driving lessons. But there comes a time when you take control of your own vehicle. As you no doubt know, the Buddha said to consider his teaching critically and to be a "light unto one self." Hence my driving is not going to be identical to the driver behind me. For a start, she's tailgating. :D
 

Nimos

Well-Known Member
Have you done any research on blood transfusions at all to see if they are safe and effective medically speaking?
Sure there can be complications when doing something like that, but it is needed to save life.

A blood transfusion is a routine medical procedure in which donated blood is provided to you through a narrow tube placed within a vein in your arm.

This potentially life-saving procedure can help replace blood lost due to surgery or injury. A blood transfusion also can help if an illness prevents your body from making blood or some of your blood's components correctly.

Blood transfusions usually occur without complications. When complications do occur, they're typically mild.

Mayo Foundation for Medical Education and Research


Blood transfusion - Mayo Clinic

Don't you think that if they could use a completely uncomplicated alternative that they would do that?

How the blood is taken into the body is irrelevant. Blood transfusions were unknown in bible times.
Yes, which is most likely why it was not relevant in the bible. Im pretty convinced that the reason this was added to the bible is due to some health issues, that maybe they figured out that blood, when consumed could cause some issues or whatever. Which would explain why it was important that slaughtering animals were done in a correct way.

Also why this thing is pretty much only mentioned in regards to how to slaughter and eat animals. Besides the exception of some rituals.

God would have known that we would eventually reach a stage where transfusions would be used to save lives, So if knew that, then they could easily have added a verse saying "X. You shall not share blood".

If an alcoholic is told by their doctor to abstain from alcohol, should he simply stop drinking it and transfuse it directly into his bloodstream because that is where it ends up, to be processed by his liver.
Well that is not the same is it. The reason is that being an alcoholic comes with a lot of other health and social issues. The doctor can't force a person not to drink, if they want to do it. But he can refuse and most likely will do that, to inject alcohol into the blood stream of a person. Not even sure you could survive that.

So medication have been developed to help people that want to stop drinking. But in regards to blood transfusions, this might be needed in order to save someones life that have been in an accident or whatever, where there is no time to waste.

Listen for the words "morbidity" and "mortality" in relation to the use of blood transfusions. Less than 12% of blood transfusions administered were actually considered to be beneficial.
I can't say whether or not, blood transfusions are being overused, which is what I understand with what they are saying, meaning that its sort of like when antibiotics, I think it is, that are being handed out as if it were candy, causing it to loose its effectiveness. But in this case they might do it, because its common practice rather than, if it is needed in a specific case. So I have no issue with that, as it make sense to not do things if they are not needed and especially if it can cause more harm than good, if used incorrectly.

However looking at their own guidelines for blood transfusions, they do seem to agree with what Mayo Foundation for Medical Education and Research say, that they do not consider the risk especially high, when you look at what they write.

What are the risks?

People who have blood transfusions during surgery may be more likely to experience negative outcomes such as wound infections and delayed recovery. Because the donor blood is not your own blood, your body’s immune system responds to the foreign blood much in the same way it would respond to an organ transplant.

Reactions can include:

  • Fever and chills: These are more common in platelet transfusions than red blood cell transfusions.
  • Mild allergy: About 1% – 3% of patients experience some form of treatable allergic reaction, such as a rash.
  • Severe allergic reaction: This can include loss of consciousness, shock and cardiac arrest among other symptoms. This type of severe reaction is much more rare, occurring in less than one in 20,000 blood transfusions.
  • Acute or delayed haemolytic reaction: This is very rare since it occurs if the donor blood type doesn’t match your blood type, or if you receive the wrong blood. For this reason you should always be asked to confirm your identity before receiving a transfusion. This type of reaction is more common in people who have had a previous transfusion.
  • Lung injury: An acute reaction that occurs in about 1 in 10,000 transfusions.
  • Too much iron: This is more likely if you have had many blood transfusions.
  • Septic reaction: these reactions are very rare but can be serious. Septic reactions occur when blood components have been contaminated with bacteria.
https://www.blood.gov.au/system/files/documents/Guide-to-blood-transfusions-factsheet-AMENDED.PDF

Nonsense. To "abstain" means what in your dictionary? (Acts 15:19; 28-29)
As I said, when read out of context with the rest.

Acts 15:29
29 to keep away from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from anything strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you avoid these things, you will do well. Goodbye."

So we start with:
"food sacrificed to idols" - So this refer to food that have been sacrificed to some other godly or false being. So you stay away from that.

"from blood" - Seems weird to throw this into to middle of these food guidelines, if it didn't relate to consuming it. but will get back to why that is the case.

"
from anything strangled" - This refer to animals/meat that have not been probably drained from blood.

Lets try to get some context into this and some perspective.

Leviticus 7:26
26 You are not to eat any form of blood in any of your dwellings, whether it's from birds or animals.


Eating it

Leviticus 17:14
14 because the life of any flesh is the blood itself. Therefore I'm saying to the Israelis that the blood of any flesh is not to be eaten, because the life of any flesh is in its blood. Anyone who eats of it is to be eliminated from contact with his people.


Eating it.

Genesis 9:4
4 However, you are not to eat meat with its life—that is, its blood—in it!


Eating it.

Ezekiel 33:25
25 "So tell them, 'This is what the Lord GOD says: "You keep eating flesh along with its blood, you keep looking to your idols, and you keep shedding blood, and you're going to take possession of the land?

Eating it, later goes on how he will punish them for doing these things.

Deuteronomy 12:16
16 Only, you must not consume the blood; instead, pour it out on the ground as you would water.


Eating it

Deuteronomy 12:23-24
23 Only be sure to refrain from eating blood, because blood is the source of life and you must not consume blood with the meat.
24 You must not consume it; instead, pour it on the ground as you would water.


Eating it.

Now with that in mind, is it likely that what meant in acts:

Acts 15:29
29 to keep away from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from anything strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you avoid these things, you will do well. Goodbye."


Could refer to eating it as well? Hench the fact that it is written among all the other food guidelines?
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Screen Shot 2020-05-16 at 8.32.36 AM.png
That way we have no dissenters and those who want to step outside the unity of our teachings, are demonstrating that they are not one of us. Our unity comes from God....from all believing one truth. (1 Corinthians 1:10)

Just to clarify, not that there aren't dissenters, but rather dissenters leave

.
For every 100 Jehovah's Witnesses more than 1 is disfellowshipped each year; over 80,000, with two out of every three never reinstated.
watchtower-2015-apr-15-p.29.jpg

  • those that continue to believe Watchtower doctrine are told that whilst disfellowshipped they are condemned to everlasting destruction.
  • those who become unbelievers, with no intention of returning to the Watchtower Society, realise they are unlikely to freely associate with Witness family and friends for the remainder of their lives.
(Don't know about the two bullet points - whether that is true or not - I'm sure you will correct if in error)

This is not a dig in any form or shape. We had a person in our church who was a preterits (his wife wasn't). He eventually left of his own accord because you can't walk together unless you are agreed.

By the nature of it, if you don't believe what the JW believes, you naturally just leave or you just keep quiet about your differences.
 
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Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
I am sure many in RF have thought about, why spiritual/religious people even from the same spiritual teaching can explain the same topic so very different when they are asked. Or that even all religions/spiritual paths trying to obtain same form of truth, they are very unlikely to tell it the same way.

In your understanding what is the reason this happens?
It really isn't complicated, IMO. People are people and the Bible has a depth beyond the capacity of human thought. (I don't know of a faith that doesn't have differences).

For an example: JW says the Bible was translated wrong (two groups who interpret it differently) - thus two viewpoints.

Mormons say that the Bible was changed - two viewpoints.

Some people say that the Bible is a myth -- two viewpoints.

and so on and so on
 
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