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Featured Why is it so important for you to claim your belief is the only true belief?

Discussion in 'Religions Q&A' started by Conscious thoughts, May 3, 2021.

  1. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Maybe it is important because the religious scripture whoever believes is Gods word or Gods inspiration says so.

    If God says so, you cannot say "no no". Thus more than it being an epistemological matter, it is more importantly because God said so.
     
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  2. A Vestigial Mote

    A Vestigial Mote Well-Known Member

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    I do not believe in right and wrong in any objective sense, no. I believe in them as referential constructs thought into "existence" by whatever being has the perspective to assess benefit or detriment to itself or other things it may care about. Humans, for example, are such a being. "Right" or "good" end up being related to things, actions or motivations that lead to help or benefit to humans. And "Wrong" or "bad" end up being those things related to things, actions or motivations that lead to hurt or are detriment to humans.

    As an example - a primitive mind may view mosquitos as "evil," or say something goofy like, "bad people get reincarnated as bad things - like mosquitos" (this being an actual, real-life example of something I have literally had someone say to me). From the perspective of humans, specifically, mosquitos are a nuisance, and can spread disease - potentially even life-threatening disease, and so they are "bad" from our perspective - which may be interpreted as "evil" by someone prone to readily accepting symbolism and stereotyping as "reality." But taking a step back, what do you think the mosquito thinks of itself (if it does so at all)? What do you think bats or frogs think of mosquitos? Are they "evil" from the perspective of those other animals that may rely on them for food? Probably not. If mosquitos were objectively "bad," then all things, regardless of their dispositions or perspective, would need to recognize them as such. It is only a very sophomoric, immature mind that can label mosquitos as "bad" all around, or, as a believer, ask questions like "Why did God create mosquitos?" as a reference to God creating something "evil." (also something I have heard from a real-life person).

    However, while I do not recognize anything as universally "evil" or "good", "right" or "wrong," I do, easily understand what is beneficial or detrimental to myself or my fellow human beings, and I do tend to use the colloquially accepted terms of "right" or "wrong" to convey when I feel something is on one side of the benefit/detriment line or the other, and to simultaneously convey my stance on that subject (whether I, as a human, do or do not find various action/motivation acceptable from my fellow sentient beings).

    But no... nothing is objectively "evil." Even something like "murder" can be seen as a benefit from another being's perspective. For example, a house-fly. Let's say a person is doing dishes, and a housefly is intent on getting at the food stuck to the plates, but that human doing the dishes just keeps swatting at the fly. If someone were to walk up and murder that human being, that would then allow the fly to either go after the food on the plates, or instead dine on and lay eggs in the dead human body that was also just provided to it by happenstance. The murder was of benefit to the fly, in other words, because a fly would likely always rather see a dead human being than a live one. This is not the fault of the fly, nor does it make the fly "evil" by any stretch of the imagination. His goals are just completely different from ours, and therefore what is "good" or "evil" from the fly's perspective will be entirely different from our own.
     
  3. Jacques de Molay

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    That's not really an answer, it's just an opinion.
     
  4. Jacques de Molay

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    First of all, bugs and animals cannot be "evil," because they act only on pure instinct. They don't have sinister, ulterior motives.

    Second, flies don't "prefer" anything. Their "thinking" is not that advanced.

    Third...At least you're honest. If there's no God, there is NO right, and no wrong...Only that which is convenient, at the time. That's fairly sociopathic, but honest, nonethless.

    So, in your mind, the Holocaust was not wrong, correct? Because you said you don't believe in objective right or wrong...Correct?

    (FACT: You're being dishonest. You most certainly DO believe in objective right or wrong. If I stole your car, you'd call the police...And you know it.)
     
  5. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

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    I should maybe have answered " this is my understanding " because it is my understanding of the question you asked.
     
  6. A Vestigial Mote

    A Vestigial Mote Well-Known Member

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    You barely read what I wrote, and it shows.

    Basically, my entire post boils down to the idea that making ANY assessment of "right" and "wrong" requires that a goal be established first. So, if the goal is to foster human health and well-being, then things like murder and thievery can then be objectively assessed to run against that goal. And I told you, between humans I completely understand that there are things that are and are not acceptable from myself or others. Did you ignore that part so that you could call me "dishonest" in your pitiful little parenthetical at the end of your post? Ridiculous. You also tried to pin on me the idea that "Only that which is convenient at the time" is all that matters. You CANNOT get that from my post unless YOU are being dishonest - which I very much believe that you are. You're completely willing to twist things to fit your foolish narrative. Good for you Jackie.
     
  7. Musing Bassist

    Musing Bassist Ash nazg durbatul√Ľk

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    That would be true. But I have no trust in the claims of an offshoot sect of an offshoot sect of Shia Islam.
     
    #67 Musing Bassist, May 4, 2021
    Last edited: May 4, 2021
  8. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    you have no concept?...of spirit

    argumentive ploys don't work

    just make the choice
     
  9. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    The Bahai Faith is not an offshoot sect of an offshoot sect of Shia Islam. That only shows that you do not know what it is.
    The Baha'i Faith is no more an offshoot sect of Islam than Christianity is an offshoot sect of Judaism.
    The Baha'i Faith is based upon a new Revelation from God through Baha'u'llah just as Christianity is based upon a new Revelation from God through Jesus.
     
  10. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    Of course, heaven and hell are fictions of the theists, but nothing worse than being a slave.
     
  11. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    Unfortunate because all religious strife in the world has been because of these religions focused on their version of God. God also is a belief, no proof.

    Mother Teresa - Wikipedia
     
  12. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    Yes believers also go on and on and on.
    It can be a choice to remain in non belief and a choice to remain in belief.
    Words can be like a ball bouncing off a brick wall when a person is set in their opposition.
     
  13. alypius

    alypius Member

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    Is it selfish to say it is true that Mars is the fourth planet from the Sun?
     
  14. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

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    Not sure i understand your question from a religious point of view in this OP.
    But to answer, if we know b looking at the different planets that Mars is the fourth planet from the sun, it is not a selfish way to give an answer no. (this belong more within science, and that is not my field of understanding)
     
  15. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    It looks like he is leading up to the topic of science denial. It appears that you have no problem with correcting those that deny reality. Such as that the Earth is not Flat. A literal reading of the Bible and other religious books can lead to that belief. Or that there was a global flood within human history. Or other demonstrably correct ideas.
     
  16. Marcion

    Marcion gopa of humanity's controversial Taraka Brahma

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    My path also has 'a historical claim' that God did something in real human history among real human people. He revealed Himself in the form of Lord Shiva just over 7000 years ago and much later as Lord Krishna just over 3500 years ago and again in a third personality quite recently. So Christianity is not unique in that way.
    What is unique about Christianity is that it has from the beginning been intolerant of so-called "heresies" and has promoted dogmatically declared "truths". This has become the main stumbling block for understanding other paths or religions.
     
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  17. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

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    I do not try to correct those who belive in science, they are free to believe what they wish to. And i have stopped correcting those from other religious beliefs then what i believe in my self. I do sometimes ask a question toward those of other religions. But i have more than enough to correct my own understanding of what i believe in than to keep correcting others
     
  18. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    People do not "believe in science". There is a difference between knowledge and belief. Evidence allows people to know that things. When something can be demonstrated to be true countless times it is quite different from mere belief.
     
  19. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

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    I have to little understanding of any science to go in to a discussion with you, and yes i do see the world through religious/spiritual practice and not through science.
     
  20. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    That is fine. But if a person publicly states that the Earth is Flat he is apt to be corrected.
     
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