• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

why is it important to "Believe"..?

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
As in respect for all things vs respect as we know it?
I'm just saying that respect is not the same thing as judgment. Respect means that you don't treat the view unkindly or as though it is stupid. Respect is also not the same thing as approval -- you can respect a point of view and still disagree.

These atheists that I'm referring to have their own rationale for appreciating life. Personally, I find the rationale unconvincing. But I treat their POV with respect, and the atheists with the same love I give to all decent human beings.
 

MonkeyFire

Well-Known Member
As in respect for all things vs respect as we know it.
[
I'm just saying that respect is not the same thing as judgment. Respect means that you don't treat the view unkindly or as though it is stupid. Respect is also not the same thing as approval -- you can respect a point of view and still disagree.

These atheists that I'm referring to have their own rationale for appreciating life. Personally, I find the rationale unconvincing. But I treat their POV with respect, and the atheists with the same love I give to all decent human beings.

IMO respect is both judgement, and kindness.
 

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I don't want to give you more information than you can handle comfortably, I like to take it slow.

Google "Israel 1948 prophecy" and let me know what you think?
I think that you are sending me on a wild goose chase.

I googled the terms and nothing stood out as being particularly relevant.

Don't you know how to link to an actual webpage?
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
[


IMO respect is both judgement, and kindness.
re·spect
/rəˈspekt/

noun

  1. a feeling of deep admiration for someone or something elicited by their abilities, qualities, or achievements.

  2. due regard for the feelings, wishes, rights, or traditions of others.
I am using definition number 2.

In neither case do I see anything relating to judgement.
 

MonkeyFire

Well-Known Member
re·spect
/rəˈspekt/

noun

  1. a feeling of deep admiration for someone or something elicited by their abilities, qualities, or achievements.

  2. due regard for the feelings, wishes, rights, or traditions of others.
I am using definition number 2.

In neither case do I see anything relating to judgement.

Its a distinct perception of that thing "respect."
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
I think that you are sending me on a wild goose chase.

I googled the terms and nothing stood out as being particularly relevant.

Don't you know how to link to an actual webpage?

http://www.grantjeffrey.com/pdf/JeffBIBLE-EzekVision2.pdf


Prophecy:

10 Prophecies Fulfilled in 1948

Prophecy Fulfilled: Israel Becomes A Nation In 1948

Some prophecies:

1) The Jews, after rejecting their Messiah, were to be scattered to many nations (Deut 28:64, etc.)

2) They would bless each and all of these nations (Genesis 12:3, etc.)

3) They would be persecuted in each and all of those nations (Joel 3:1-2, Deut 28:37, etc.)

4) They would inaugurate a Jewish nation again, in May 1948 CE! (Ezekiel 4:4-6 and Lev 26:14-46)

5) Messiah would return to the Jews (Matthew 24)

# 4 is fascinating.

After modern Israel was incepted, Christians proclaimed the fulfillment of Bible prophecy, atheists noticed that it was a void prophecy, because…

Ezekiel prophesied a number of years in captivity:

“…As for you [Ezekiel], lie down…for the number of days…three hundred and ninety days (for Israel’s sin)…When you have completed these…I have assigned it to you for forty days (for Judah’s sin)…a day for each year.”—Ezekiel 4:4-6

That's 430 years (biblical years of 360 days each). 70 years of captivity were served in Babylon, leaving 360 years.

Modern atheists noted this... surely the final Jewish diaspora into modern times lasted more than 360 years since the end of the Babylonian captivity! Surely the Bible was wrong:

606 BCE …Judah/Israel taken captive to Babylon

536 BCE …Cyrus allows return to Israel

...360 years later is pre-Roman times in Israel!

Some readers, noticed, however, that Leviticus 26:14-46 says Israel will pay seven times over for disobedience, specifically, in diaspora: "…If also after these things you do not obey Me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins."

They multiplied 7 times 360 360-day years from the Cyrus decree and in the Gentile calendar this comes out to: Whoa! May 14, 1948 CE! God left it as written to demonstrate it wasn't a self-fulfilled prophecy, and for skeptics to draw it out!


What about coincidence? There are numerous Bible prophecies, these are the sole passages on the God-commanded length of the lengthy diaspora. The coincidence would be millions-to-one. There are similar precise number prophecies relating to other aspects, if you're interested. The date for Christ's crucifixion appears in the Septuagint, which scholars know dates to at least two-and-a-half centuries before Christ.

**

These are some of my notes on the subject.



Is Israel In God’s Plan?



“…As for you [Ezekiel], lie down…for the number of days…three hundred and ninety days (for Israel’s sin)…When you have completed these…I have assigned it to you for forty days (for Judah’s sin)…a day for each year.”—Ezekiel 4:4-6



Did God Err In The Bible?



606 BC …Judah/Israel taken captive to Babylon



536 BC …Cyrus allows return to Israel



…So, only 70 years of 430 fulfilled? (Atheists point out with glee this scripture came up empty)



"Seven Times Punishment"



“…And if by these things [sins] you are not turned to Me, but act with hostility against Me, then I will act with hostility against you; and I, even I, will strike you seven times for your sins.”—Leviticus 23:23-24



Ezekiel “Counts”



70 years of captivity



430 – 70 (captivity) = 360 years left



360 x 7 (times punishment) = 2,520 years



Going from the date in history (recorded in the Bible and outside the Bible also) of the Babylonian diaspora = May 15, 1948 AD! (Israel born in a day by decree of United Nations, this occurred at 12:01 AM or April 15 in Gentile reckoning; the Jewish date began at sundown or dark the night before)



Longer look:



+ Leviticus 26:14-46 says Israel will pay seven times over for disobedience



…If also after these things you do not obey Me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.



Ezekiel 4:1-8 demonstrate 430 days/years of punishment in captivity/”scattered” for disobedience

«NOW you son of man, get yourself a brick, place it before you and inscribe a city on it, Jerusalem.

2

«Then lay siege against it, build a siege wall, raise up a ramp, pitch camps and place battering rams against it all around.

3

«Then get yourself an iron plate and set it up as an iron wall between you and the city, and set your face toward it so that it is under siege, and besiege it. This is a sign to the house of Israel.

4

«As for you, lie down on your left side and lay the iniquity of the house of Israel on it; you shall bear their iniquity for the number of days that you lie on it.

5

«For I have assigned you a number of days corresponding to the years of their iniquity, three hundred and ninety days; thus you shall bear the iniquity of the house of Israel.

6

«When you have completed these, you shall lie down a second time, but on your right side and bear the iniquity of the house of Judah; I have assigned it to you for forty days, a day for each year.

7

«Then you shall set your face toward the siege of Jerusalem with your arm bared and prophesy against it.

8

«Now behold, I will put ropes on you so that you cannot turn from one side to the other until you have completed the days of your siege.



in 606 BCE; Judah/Israel was transported away from home—Cyrus conquered Babylon after 70 years and said return in 536 BC, yet only 50,000 devout Jews returned (Jeremiah 25:11 mentions these 70 years’ captivity about which Daniel prayed for wisdom as their end approached)



taking 430 minus 70 years of warning/captivity equals 360 years (multiplied times seven for punishment of Leviticus) = 360 x 7 x 360 [days] or 907,200 days from Cyrus’ decree to May 15, 1948 AD…when Israel was declared a nation!!!
 

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
http://www.grantjeffrey.com/pdf/JeffBIBLE-EzekVision2.pdf


Prophecy:

10 Prophecies Fulfilled in 1948

Prophecy Fulfilled: Israel Becomes A Nation In 1948

Some prophecies:

1) The Jews, after rejecting their Messiah, were to be scattered to many nations (Deut 28:64, etc.)

2) They would bless each and all of these nations (Genesis 12:3, etc.)

3) They would be persecuted in each and all of those nations (Joel 3:1-2, Deut 28:37, etc.)

4) They would inaugurate a Jewish nation again, in May 1948 CE! (Ezekiel 4:4-6 and Lev 26:14-46)

5) Messiah would return to the Jews (Matthew 24)

# 4 is fascinating.

After modern Israel was incepted, Christians proclaimed the fulfillment of Bible prophecy, atheists noticed that it was a void prophecy, because…

Ezekiel prophesied a number of years in captivity:

“…As for you [Ezekiel], lie down…for the number of days…three hundred and ninety days (for Israel’s sin)…When you have completed these…I have assigned it to you for forty days (for Judah’s sin)…a day for each year.”—Ezekiel 4:4-6

That's 430 years (biblical years of 360 days each). 70 years of captivity were served in Babylon, leaving 360 years.

Modern atheists noted this... surely the final Jewish diaspora into modern times lasted more than 360 years since the end of the Babylonian captivity! Surely the Bible was wrong:

606 BCE …Judah/Israel taken captive to Babylon

536 BCE …Cyrus allows return to Israel

...360 years later is pre-Roman times in Israel!

Some readers, noticed, however, that Leviticus 26:14-46 says Israel will pay seven times over for disobedience, specifically, in diaspora: "…If also after these things you do not obey Me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins."

They multiplied 7 times 360 360-day years from the Cyrus decree and in the Gentile calendar this comes out to: Whoa! May 14, 1948 CE! God left it as written to demonstrate it wasn't a self-fulfilled prophecy, and for skeptics to draw it out!


What about coincidence? There are numerous Bible prophecies, these are the sole passages on the God-commanded length of the lengthy diaspora. The coincidence would be millions-to-one. There are similar precise number prophecies relating to other aspects, if you're interested. The date for Christ's crucifixion appears in the Septuagint, which scholars know dates to at least two-and-a-half centuries before Christ.

**

These are some of my notes on the subject.



Is Israel In God’s Plan?



“…As for you [Ezekiel], lie down…for the number of days…three hundred and ninety days (for Israel’s sin)…When you have completed these…I have assigned it to you for forty days (for Judah’s sin)…a day for each year.”—Ezekiel 4:4-6



Did God Err In The Bible?



606 BC …Judah/Israel taken captive to Babylon



536 BC …Cyrus allows return to Israel



…So, only 70 years of 430 fulfilled? (Atheists point out with glee this scripture came up empty)



"Seven Times Punishment"



“…And if by these things [sins] you are not turned to Me, but act with hostility against Me, then I will act with hostility against you; and I, even I, will strike you seven times for your sins.”—Leviticus 23:23-24



Ezekiel “Counts”



70 years of captivity



430 – 70 (captivity) = 360 years left



360 x 7 (times punishment) = 2,520 years



Going from the date in history (recorded in the Bible and outside the Bible also) of the Babylonian diaspora = May 15, 1948 AD! (Israel born in a day by decree of United Nations, this occurred at 12:01 AM or April 15 in Gentile reckoning; the Jewish date began at sundown or dark the night before)



Longer look:



+ Leviticus 26:14-46 says Israel will pay seven times over for disobedience



…If also after these things you do not obey Me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.



Ezekiel 4:1-8 demonstrate 430 days/years of punishment in captivity/”scattered” for disobedience

«NOW you son of man, get yourself a brick, place it before you and inscribe a city on it, Jerusalem.

2

«Then lay siege against it, build a siege wall, raise up a ramp, pitch camps and place battering rams against it all around.

3

«Then get yourself an iron plate and set it up as an iron wall between you and the city, and set your face toward it so that it is under siege, and besiege it. This is a sign to the house of Israel.

4

«As for you, lie down on your left side and lay the iniquity of the house of Israel on it; you shall bear their iniquity for the number of days that you lie on it.

5

«For I have assigned you a number of days corresponding to the years of their iniquity, three hundred and ninety days; thus you shall bear the iniquity of the house of Israel.

6

«When you have completed these, you shall lie down a second time, but on your right side and bear the iniquity of the house of Judah; I have assigned it to you for forty days, a day for each year.

7

«Then you shall set your face toward the siege of Jerusalem with your arm bared and prophesy against it.

8

«Now behold, I will put ropes on you so that you cannot turn from one side to the other until you have completed the days of your siege.



in 606 BCE; Judah/Israel was transported away from home—Cyrus conquered Babylon after 70 years and said return in 536 BC, yet only 50,000 devout Jews returned (Jeremiah 25:11 mentions these 70 years’ captivity about which Daniel prayed for wisdom as their end approached)



taking 430 minus 70 years of warning/captivity equals 360 years (multiplied times seven for punishment of Leviticus) = 360 x 7 x 360 [days] or 907,200 days from Cyrus’ decree to May 15, 1948 AD…when Israel was declared a nation!!!

Am I missing something here, it says, "If in spite of these things you do not accept my correction but continue to be hostile toward me, I myself will be hostile toward you and will afflict you for your sins seven times over." But the author of your link conveniently subtracts the initial 70 years of captivity even though this was part of the punishment. Thus it appears to me that if this where to be interpreted as "your punishment will be multiplied by 7" It should actually include the initial 70 years of the punishment. To arbitrarily subtract part of the punishment for multiplication seems off to me.

Also deuteronomy26 and ezekial 4 certainly talk about the return of the Jews, but neither appear to mention them *becoming a nation* when the time of punishment is fulfilled. Can you see the difference between the Jews returning and returned Jews forming a nation?

Additionally even if your calculations where correct (which I am doubtful of) it still counts as a self fulfilled prophecy.

It also fails the ambiguity test since it actually prophesied that the punishment would last 430 years with a convenient escape clause of *unless you fail to repent* which is subjective and therfore ambiguous because how can we measure repentance, especially when in any Christian sense of the word repentance implies accepting Jesus as saviour, which is something the Jews certainly did not do in may 1948!
 
Top