1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Why is Islam so dangerous?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Raymann, Apr 25, 2019.

  1. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Messages:
    10,203
    Ratings:
    +4,824
    Religion:
    None
    As for why Islam is so dangerous?

    People believe in it.
    They see the violent acts of their
    perfect prophet, and, as in the
    command of Jesus, go forth and
    do likewise.

    Except of course, Jesus never did
    anything more violent than turning
    over some tables.

    A little tamer than bandit gangs raiding
    caravans.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2016
    Messages:
    6,249
    Ratings:
    +2,613
    Religion:
    Baha'i Faith
    Yes. We believe it is the Word of God. Like the Bible too. But the further we go back in history the more authenticity and verification becomes a problem.

    So we Baha’is believe in the infallibility of Jesus, Moses, Buddha, Krishna, Muhammad, Zoroaster and Moses and now the Bab and Baha’u’llah not just Muhammad. All these Great Beings we consider both error free and sin free.
     
  3. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2016
    Messages:
    6,249
    Ratings:
    +2,613
    Religion:
    Baha'i Faith
    In a peaceful religion the extremists would be extremely peaceful?

    Violent Buddhist extremists are targeting Muslims in Sri Lanka

    Myanmar proves 'Buddhist' doesn’t necessarily mean 'peaceful' - Macleans.ca

    Violent Buddhist extremists are targeting Muslims in Sri Lanka

    I lived in Burma for 5 years. It is a country dominated by ethnic wars and violence between Buddhists and Karen Christians and Buddhists and the Rohingya considered by many the most persecuted people on earth. Even Buddhist monks took part in atrocities and promoted Holy war. The regime is Buddhist. The many battles fought by Krishna yet the Hindus believe in Ahimsa (non violence)

    Krishna in the Mahabharata - Wikipedia

    Every religion has had violence from the Crusades to Burma and the war Krishna fought, the Jews and the Amalekites.

    Just about every religion has war and conflict in its history but the war fought by Muhammad and was to defend against genocide and for freedom of belief. It was a just war. The war Krishna fought was also a just war.

    To claim that extremists of peaceful religions would be ‘extremely peaceful ’ does not reflect the facts on the ground unless you consider that it is not the Founder, nor the Holy Books that are the cause of the violence but rather instead disobedience to their religion..

    Buddhism like Islam or Christianity does not teach violence but some extremist Buddhists are killers including monks so I say that they are acting against the teachings of their religion.
     
    #703 loverofhumanity, May 8, 2019
    Last edited: May 8, 2019
  4. charlie sc

    charlie sc Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2019
    Messages:
    892
    Ratings:
    +290
    Religion:
    Atheism
    Yeah but loverofhumanity might have to :p
     
  5. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Messages:
    10,203
    Ratings:
    +4,824
    Religion:
    None
    I do not doubt that you believe things. It is what
    believers do, they just believe things. Astrology,
    communism, psychics. Name it, someone will
    believe it, maybe die for it.

    People just believe things. So do you, and so
    much the worse for you, but you are stuck with it.

    I think part of your problem is very poor
    cognitive skills. I have to repeat a simple
    question ten times, then give up on it.
    You cannot follow a topic. You just go back
    to chanting.

    As in this case. You said only the koran
    is perfect, now you say oh yeah "mohammed"
    is and a string of others besides. So very perfect too.

    I asked you about the contradiction, and you just
    start chanting that you believe things.
     
    #705 Audie, May 8, 2019
    Last edited: May 8, 2019
    • Winner Winner x 2
  6. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Messages:
    10,203
    Ratings:
    +4,824
    Religion:
    None
    I guess you cognitive skill did not allow you to
    notice that the thing about "extremely peaceful"
    was a mild effort at humour. It is not even original.

    REGARDLESS the Koran very obviously does
    teach violence.
    You cannot hide behind 'oh, wrong interpretation".
    There is no way to say which is right. Everybody
    thinks theirs is correct.

    But as for yours? Here is one way to show that
    peaceful-peaceful, is false. The 911 attack was
    straight out of the book.

    Those so called holy books all teach that
    one should emulate the Teachers.

    "take up your cross and follow me"

    Mohammed-by your account-led attacks
    on innocent merchants to weaken the enemy.

    That is what the boys of 911 did, too, The
    followed the leader.

    You say otherwise? Who are you to be right
    and say those willing to give their lives are wrong?
    You can say when one should or should not follow
    the example of a "perfect" person??

    AND, if you please, the thread is about why Islam
    is dangerous, like ebola is dangerous.

    People believe in Islam, they read the "koran",
    they see what their big hero did, they go forth
    to do likewise.

    The problem with "Islam" is systemic, built
    right in to it. Whether you are a shill, or a
    dupe I dont know, but your denial only
    serves to focus attention on islam for what it is.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Messages:
    10,203
    Ratings:
    +4,824
    Religion:
    None
    It will take more than imagination to get
    through that cocoon of delusions he's
    woven around himself.
     
  8. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2016
    Messages:
    6,249
    Ratings:
    +2,613
    Religion:
    Baha'i Faith
    I posted that in another conversation in which Hadiths were referred to and in that context said that only the Quran was perfect (in Islam) not Hadiths because it is the only Word of God in Islam. That is the context in which I mentioned the word only not that no other Holy Writings are perfect.

    Baha’is read from all the scriptures in our Houses of Worship because we believe the Word of God is perfect no matter which religion. But as we go further back in history authentication And verification of older scriptures becomes problematic.

    In conversations confined to Islam of course I believe that only the Quran and Muhammad were perfect and infallible but if the discussion would have included other Faiths I would not have said only because we believe in the perfection of other scriptures also outside Islam. If you read and understood the entire post you would have noticed that I was comparing the Quran to Hadiths when I used the word only. I even included verses from the Quran rejecting Hadiths. So in regard to Hadiths only the Quran is perfect.
     
  9. Samantha Rinne

    Samantha Rinne Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2018
    Messages:
    573
    Ratings:
    +201
    Religion:
    Follower (and Writer) of the Mune Shinri

    Well, aside from the fact that in some particularly liberal forums, talking bad about Islam can get you banned when the same courtesy is not extended to Christians (I'm not thrilled about this topic btw)...

    They themselves admit in their book many of their worst traits, but will conceal or deny these things, often omitting or misquoting their teachings. This is called taqiyya, and undermines the most basic trust you have in a people. In fact, you can't even trust your own feelings because you constantly have doubts whether you're in fact being too hard on them.

    Then you see Taliban blow up a statue of Buddha while eating at a Chinese restaurant, and watch the concern and fear, and actual tears in the eyes of the waitress, as she is trying not to lose face by publicly falling apart. And that tells you that your suspicions are right. And then you hear another Muslim woman talk about how 9/11 was a day "some ppl did something", ignoring the actual plane crashing into a building and people dying. And that tells you all these ppl talking about how they've had peaceful encounters with Muslims are being tricked.

    And then you hear about women having their stuff mutilated, forced to wear hijab or be stoned or acid-washed, the completely cruel way animals are butchered under halal (slow bled to death while fully conscious and while other animals watch). And destruction of historical and religious statues that contradict their history or culture. And all of it seems bad.

    But not as bad as feeling alone and unsure of what is true due to a massive suppression campaign. Taqiyya is why Islam is so bad. Even if you're Christian or Byddhist and you want to believe everyone can change, everyone is basically good, you have a people who make the same sort of promises as an abusive husband who swears "this time" he's different. Only you never have any clear notion whether this time he might in fact beat you to death.

    If someone is honest to you, they arw likely honest to themselves, and can actually correct the things they have trouble with. Which brings me to the next real problem, that Islam sees itself as infallible. Someone who never believes they are in the wrong will take and take when ppl are kind, then blame them when someone finally feels used.
     
  10. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Messages:
    10,203
    Ratings:
    +4,824
    Religion:
    None
    Well, one thing for sure, as long as you believe
    your koran is perfect, and you stick to what you
    believe it says (are you perfect? is what you
    choose to believe infallible?) then you will always
    be right.

    You’re always right and I’m always wrong and you say that we should not be closed minded?

    On the matter of closed mind, it does appear
    that yours is shut tight as a welded submarine
    hatch.

    I will take your word for it that I took your quote
    out of context, so sure, that allows for limitless
    other things to be perfect and infallible,not just
    the koran. So there is no contradiction.

    For another occasion, here is the easy way to do it.
    You only needed one sentence.

    "In context, i was saying that among islamic
    writings
    , only koran is considered perfect."
     
  11. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2016
    Messages:
    6,249
    Ratings:
    +2,613
    Religion:
    Baha'i Faith
    That I am considered delusional is to me a compliment and high praise.

    I consider you intelligent, patient, a person who wants peace and cares for humankind and I hope that one day you will consider me your friend. I already consider you mine.
     
  12. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Messages:
    10,203
    Ratings:
    +4,824
    Religion:
    None
    I guess I could ask how you could consider
    it good to be delusional, but, I guess I wont.
     
  13. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2016
    Messages:
    6,249
    Ratings:
    +2,613
    Religion:
    Baha'i Faith
    From my posts you can clearly see I’m most imperfect and you put it so aptly in one short sentence. You are a very tolerant and patient person and i admire your forbearance.
     
  14. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Messages:
    10,203
    Ratings:
    +4,824
    Religion:
    None
    We are all imperfect but it seems you believe you
    have a way to always be correct, in certain matters.

    Is that not the same as infallible, in that context?
     
  15. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2016
    Messages:
    6,249
    Ratings:
    +2,613
    Religion:
    Baha'i Faith
    It is my belief that the Word of God contains all the correct and infallible knowledge and solutions if it is referred to and consulted not any individual.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Messages:
    10,203
    Ratings:
    +4,824
    Religion:
    None
    So when you say something like that "mohammed is
    perfect" there is no possibility whatsoever that
    you could be mistaken? Ie, an infallible statement.
     
  17. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2016
    Messages:
    6,249
    Ratings:
    +2,613
    Religion:
    Baha'i Faith
    The Word of God imparts true knowledge and understanding.
     
  18. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Messages:
    10,203
    Ratings:
    +4,824
    Religion:
    None
    I know you believe that. But you did not, as
    usual answer the question.

    "Is there any possibility that you are mistaken"

    Try a yes or no.



    I kind of like facts when possible,not beliefs
    and opinions.

    For example-

    If there is a god, and it is so inclined,
    it could give "true knowledge etc.".

    You said-

    The Word of God imparts true knowledge and understanding.

    THAT is an opinion.

    For lo, you have no evidence whatever to show that this
    is true.
     
  19. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2016
    Messages:
    6,249
    Ratings:
    +2,613
    Religion:
    Baha'i Faith
    Is there any possibility that I am mistaken about Muhammad being a Prophet of God infallible, error free and perfect and the Quran likewise and that the Quran and Muhammad only taught what was good and shunned all evil including injustice and terrorism - NO. But I must observe forum rules so add I believe I am not wrong.

    Baha’u’llah has explained the conditions and requirements of attaining the station of Certitude which is true understanding in His Book of Certitude. (The Word Of God)

    These conditions must be met in order to attain true knowledge and understanding. Just reading will not suffice.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2016
    Messages:
    6,249
    Ratings:
    +2,613
    Religion:
    Baha'i Faith
    The Word of God says that it gives true understanding if you want quotes I can provide them from both the Quran and Baha’u’llah.
     
Loading...