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Featured Why is hell eternal?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Jollybear, Aug 31, 2018.

  1. Mindmaster

    Mindmaster Well-Known Member
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    Who has seen hell? How do you know you're all not going there anyway?

    Better yet, if you are living now how do you know life is one time deal?

    These are questions that mainstream religions cannot actually answer because they dropped their mystical traditions a long time ago. They have their books, but have no ability to separate the true and false. If damnation isn't permanent and neither salvation then of course that leaves them in the untenable position of not being very relevant.
     
  2. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    Yeah, like so many verses in the Bible, it all depends on which version one reads. Too bad the Bible plays so fast and loose with its wording.

    for·ev·er
    fəˈrevər/
    adverb
    adverb: forever; adverb: for ever
    1. for all future time; for always.

    2. continually.
    Of course it gives the believer to ability to make what he will of it so as to fit his personal theology.

    In any case, why do you think "forever" only means until the servant dies, and not for all future time; for always?
    .
     
    #22 Skwim, Aug 31, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2018
  3. adrian009

    adrian009 Veteran Member
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    I don’t think we can say for certain that it is.

    From a Baha’i perspective:

    ‘Abdu’l-Bahá has said that when human beings “become illuminated with the radiance of the sun of reality, and ennobled with all the virtues, they esteem this the greatest reward, and they know it to be the true paradise. In the same way they consider that the spiritual punishment…is to be subjected to the world of nature; to be veiled from God; to be brutal and ignorant; to fall into carnal lusts; to be absorbed in animal frailties; to be characterized with dark qualities…these are the greatest punishments and tortures…“

    Heaven and Hell | What Bahá’ís Believe
     
  4. Buddha Dharma

    Buddha Dharma Dharma Practitioner

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    From the perspective of the Dharma, any hell realms are temporary. They only last as long as bad karma is being used up.

    Hells/Narakas constitute a very complex subject though- including that not everyone gives any credibility to the concept.

    Touching on the complexity of the subject, for example: the understanding is that something is reborn into a hell realm- technically different than you are now.

    This also goes into why you should do your meritorious practices on behalf of all beings, and why karma matters. Because everything is connected like this from a Dharmic perspective.

    I'll leave reincarnation alone because that's very paradoxical. It's very beyond the immediate scope of the individual experience.
     
    #24 Buddha Dharma, Aug 31, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2018
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  5. Jollybear

    Jollybear Hey

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    I think it means until the servent died because some translations translate it like that. The one i qouted was from the king james. But heres one from the NIV

    "Then he will be his servant for life." Exodus 21:6

    So, the hebrew word must mean or allow it to mean just until he lives.

    So, forever was used the same way people use forever today when tjings take too long or drag on. Like when time seams to go too slow. That happens when your not having fun.

    And obviously being in hell would not be fun, hence it seam to drag on forever.
     
  6. Jollybear

    Jollybear Hey

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    Some near death experiencers seen hell.

    Why wouldnt it still be relavent if heaven and hell wer not permanent? I think it still be relavent because youd want to know how to get out of hell and remain in heaven, wouldnt we?
     
  7. Jollybear

    Jollybear Hey

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    In your view, what IS hell?
     
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  8. Jollybear

    Jollybear Hey

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    Break that meaning down little more for me.
     
  9. adrian009

    adrian009 Veteran Member
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    Our purpose is to know and worship God. In Christian terms that means both faith 'and' deeds.

    Matthew 25:31-46

    James 2:14-26

    These are the criteria.

    Ultimately our progress in the next word is determined by God and not by man.

    Matthew 7:1-4
     
  10. PruePhillip

    PruePhillip Well-Known Member

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    Jesus taught about hell.
     
  11. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    According to Strong's Concordance the Hebrew word is `owlam (וֹלָם ) which means

    1. long duration, antiquity, futurity, for ever, ever, everlasting, evermore, perpetual, old, ancient, world
    A. ancient time, long time (of past)
    B. (of future)
    i. for ever, always
    ii. continuous existence, perpetual
    iii. everlasting, indefinite or unending future, eternity
    Nothing relating to the length of one's life.

    .
     
    #31 Skwim, Aug 31, 2018
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  12. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    Matthew 5:22 (Jesus speaking)
    22 But I tell you, don’t be angry with anyone. If you are angry with others, you will be judged. And if you insult someone, you will be judged by the high court. And if you call someone a fool, you will be in danger of the fire of hell.

    Matthew 5:29-30 (Jesus speaking)
    29 If your right eye makes you sin, take it out and throw it away. It is better to lose one part of your body than to have your whole body thrown into hell. 30 If your right hand makes you sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

    Matthew 10:28 (Jesus speaking)
    28 “Don’t be afraid of people. They can kill the body, but they cannot kill the soul. The only one you should fear is God, the one who can send the body and the soul to be destroyed in hell.

    James 3:6
    And the tongue is a fire, a world of unrighteousness. The tongue is set among our members, staining the whole body, setting on fire the entire course of life, and set on fire by hell.

    Jude 1:23
    Rescue those who are living in danger of hell’s fire. There are others you should treat with mercy, but be very careful that their filthy lives don’t rub off on you.​

    .
     
  13. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson

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    OK then, what did he teach about it, and in the Greek language in which his teachings were written what were the words used, what did those words mean, and what did the word hell mean in older Bibles where the word appears. Because these are the things you need to ask yourself when you want to know what Jesus really taught.

    The answers, are, in the Greek language the words used are Gehenna and Hades. They mean, respectively, a literal valley S and SW of ancient Jerusalem, and the unseen resting place of the dead where there is no consciousness, so you wouldn't be aware of any torture. The word hell, as used in the Old English in 1611 when the KJV was written, means covered or concealed, as a grave or tomb, or burial at sea. For example, Jonah called the belly of the fish he was trapped in hell, the Hebrew word sheol which is translated into the Koine Greek, as Hades (Jonah 2:1-2). The grave. No torture. No Satan and demons. No consciousness. Later the word became used to describe the pagan idea of being tormented with demons forever, and other variations or ideas of hell.

    Something to consider. The wages of sin are what? Everybody answers "death." Not everlasting torment in a fiery demon filled place underground. Romans 6:7 says when you die, you're acquitted of all sin. No more punishment required. Ezekiel 18:4 says the soul that sins, and all souls sin, will die, and so can't be tortured forever in hell. Jesus didn't sin and yet he went to hell. (Acts Of The Apostles 2:31) God is, in effect, in hell. (Amos 9:2 / Psalms 139:8)
     
    #33 Earthling, Aug 31, 2018
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  14. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson

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    We've been through this before. What were the original words and what do they mean? What did the English word hell mean when older translations were written and why do many newer translations transliterate the original words?
     
  15. PruePhillip

    PruePhillip Well-Known Member

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    I never cease to roll my eyes when people tell me "Greek translations" of biblical texts.
    I have a Greek background.
    But... lots of this stuff was never in Greek to start with. Jesus never spoke it as far as I
    know.
    Hell is eternal separation from God. For many I suppose it's better than the hell of the life
    they live today, but Jesus said such people will see what they don't see now - what they
    are missing.
    God has given us a good look at hell with what happened to the Jews after Jesus. Just
    been reading Josephus' accounts of the destruction of Israel. :(
     
  16. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    No way....your Scriptural quotes said "eternal fire", "eternal punishment ", and "eternal destruction". I didn't read 'hell' in any of them!
     
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  17. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson

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    Oh, you do, huh? You have a Greek background? So what.

    You should research your background some more than, because, he did, among other languages. In Jesus time Palestine was a multilingual region, he would have spoke Hebrew, Aramaic, Latin and Greek. Though predominately Aramaic, but that isn't relevant because the texts that were written were written in Greek Koine, because that was the primary language of the time, thus a wider audience.

    No it isn't. Amos 9:2 / Psalms 139:8
     
    #37 Earthling, Aug 31, 2018
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  18. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    Then I suggest you brush up on your reading skills.

    Mark 9:43
    “If your hand or your foot gets in God’s way, chop it off and throw it away. You’re better off maimed or lame and alive than the proud owner of two hands and two feet, godless in a furnace of eternal fire. And if your eye distracts you from God, pull it out and throw it away. You’re better off one-eyed and alive than exercising your twenty-twenty vision from inside the fire of hell.

    .
     
  19. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    This has nothing to do with "original words and what do they mean."

    .
     
  20. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson

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    Of course it does. Do that Strongs thing you do so well.
     
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