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Why is Diwali bigger than Janmashtami?

Discussion in 'Hinduism DIR' started by ronki23, Oct 17, 2021.

  1. ronki23

    ronki23 Well-Known Member

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    Diwali is the return of Ram from fighting Raavan. But some Hindus think Raavan was a good man who was corrupted by jealousy and envy.

    Surely Janmashtami should be bigger as Krishna is the final avatar of Vishnu before Kalki ?

    Even Ram Navami should be bigger than Diwali
     
  2. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium अहं ब्रह्मास्मि
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    Bigger? You mean more widely celebrated?

    Why should it matter to you how popular holidays are?

    [​IMG]
     
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  3. ronki23

    ronki23 Well-Known Member

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    I want to go to India for Diwali next year. Not once in Britain have I had a good Diwali.

    On Ram Navami and Janmashtami my family fast which I am against; I don't believe in fasting
     
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  4. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    Depends where you are, which sect you follow, and your personal choices.
     
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  5. ronki23

    ronki23 Well-Known Member

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    I assume its the biggest festival since Sikhs and Jains also celebrate it ?

    But Sikhs celebrate it for a different reason- Bandi Chor Diwas
     
  6. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    Maybe you're assuming wrong, not that it matters.
     
  7. ameyAtmA

    ameyAtmA ~ ~
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    What is definition of bigger? Attracting more crowds? Having more spiritual significance? More culturally popular versus spiritually or devotionally popular?

    It is no longer true that JanmashTami is not almost as big. JanmashTami is very grand all over the world. Have you seen the crowds in Dwarka, Vraj, Mathura and all Krishna Temples everywhere?

    Personally, I have had great profound experiences on Ram Navami - a quiet Navami just for my Shri Ram. Very Spiritual but very simple. It is not celebrated in large groups except in specific geo regions like Ayodhya and in Ram Temples / VishNu Temples.

    Diwali (Deepavali) is 5 or 6 day festival that is a combination of many things
    - Vasubaras - for the cows
    - Dhantrayodashi -- Yama, Lakshmi
    - Narakachaturdashi -- to celebrate that Krishna killed Mura and Narkasur and freed his captives. He came back to Dwarka and had an "abhyanga snaan" to wash away all the war stuff, blood etc. This is why there is abhyanga snaan and squashing the gourd as Narkasur
    - Lakshmi Pujan - this is most popular as THE diwali day especially because Lakshmi is worshipped for prosperity
    This is also the day when Ram Lakshman Sita returned to Ayodhya and Ayodhya was lit
    with lamps - hence DeepAvali.

    - PaaDwA - the business New Year - where the businessmen (Vaishya) pray with gratitude for success in their business
    - bhai duj -- cultural day for brother-sister bonding.


    So given all of this, a larger set of people are interested in Deepavali. Cultural , community and material importance makes the wider cultural Hindu circle celebrate Deepavali as a way to meet and greet and exchange traditional sweets, make new beginnings, vanquish evil, bring the good..

    However all three festivals have ample to celebrate Shri Ram and Shri KRshNa the 2 super avatArs and super tAraks of devotees.
     
    #7 ameyAtmA, Oct 17, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2021
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  8. Viraja

    Viraja Jaya Jagannatha!

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    Personally, I think that is the boon demon Narakasur got from Krishna upon his death.

    The other (more popular) Diwali story is that demon Narakasur got a boon early on that he should be killed only by his own mother.

    When Krishna was traveling with Satyabhama, an avatar of Boomi Devi, Satyabhama slew Narakasur as being an AMSA of Boomi Devi, she was akin to the demon's mother. Upon which, the demon got the said boon that his death should be celebrated as a great and grand festival all over India.

    Janmashtami is marked a spiritual festival. It is for the devotees of Krishna.

    Diwali is more a fun-filled festival celebrated by all. Not necessarily only Krishna bhaktas.
     
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  9. sayak83

    sayak83 Well-Known Member
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    Fireworks is more fun...that is why.
    Also Diwali is also Lakshmi Puja day and main Kali Puja day in the East. It is also a day akin to Halloween when ancestor spirits are shown the way back to their homes with light (Naraka Chaturdashi). I believe several more things are there in the South that I do not know.
    Basically its a general holy day with lots simultaneous celebrations in different regions of India.
     
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  10. ameyAtmA

    ameyAtmA ~ ~
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    I never heard this version that Satyabhama killed him. I understand you are saying it is a popular story (perhaps in South India?) , but I don't think the BhAgvat says she actually killed him
    Satyabhama is Bhudevi and had siddhis from the Sun , was KRshNa's shakti and inspiration in the battle - all of this is true, but KRshNa kept fighting NarkAsur for a very long time instead of killing him instantly. This was His leela, plus the Lord uses the Sudarshan only as a last resort. Plays "fair".
    Satyabhama finally lost patience and asked KRshNa to "just kill him!" and that is exactly what KRshNa was waiting for -- Satyabhama's i.e. Bhu-devi's order! It was then that He manifested the Sudarshan chakra and finally killed NarkAsur.
     
  11. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    Many theist Hindus (like I was at one time) believe that Ravana and Kumbhakarna were the door-keepers of Vaikuntha, Lord Vishnu's heaven, Jai and Vijaya, and took birth because of being cursed by the four sages, Sanat Kujmaras.

    Krishna is not the final avatara before Kalki for many Hindus. There was Buddha the ninth avatara.

    "nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātaṁ, sadaya-hṛdaya-darśita-paśu-ghātam;
    keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra, jaya jagad-īśa hare.
    " (Jayadeva, Daśāvatāra-stotra)

    "You spoke against the animal sacrifice in persuance of Vedic rituals on seeing the plight of sacrificed animals; Krishna! you took the Buddha avatara, glory to you, the ruler of the ruler of the universe."

    Sure, Ram Navami is an important occasion. Janmashtami is more popular because of Krishna's leelas.
    For Many Hindu, Lord Ganesh, Mother Durga or Lord Murugan / Kartikeya are most important. Hindus allowed to choose their personal deities (Ishta).

    For Sage Tulsidas, it was Rama and no other. When asked to bow to Lord Krishna, he said:

    "Kahā kahaun chabi āpki, bhale bane ho nāth, Tulsi mastak tab navai, jab dhanush bān lo hāth."
    (I fail to describe your beauty, you are looking so nice, O Lord; but Tulsidas will bow only when you will take bow and arrows in your hand)
     
    #11 Aupmanyav, Oct 19, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2021
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  12. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    I too do not believe in fasting. I never did so even when I was a theist. This year too, we are going to have a very subdued Diwali due to Covid-19, although the situation is geatly improved. Crackers are banned, crowding in markets or temples is banned.
     
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  13. Viraja

    Viraja Jaya Jagannatha!

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    I always knew Diwali is celebrated to commemorate Narakasura's slaying by Krishna. But yesterday, I heard the story all over again in a discourse by a famous bhagavataa by name Revathi Sankaran that it was Satyabhama who actually killed him, as he (Narakasura) got a boon that only his mother should kill him and that because she was akin to his mother (being Boomi devi), that she killed him. I may have to run the story by authentic websites. May be your other well-known version is the right one!
     
  14. ronki23

    ronki23 Well-Known Member

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    Where did this quote come from ?

    Buddha can't have been an avatar of Vishnu for 2 reasons

    1) Buddha reached enlightenment so he's no longer part of Samsara

    2) Buddhism exists in China, Korea, Vietnam without Hindu deities included; even Japan, Thailand, Cambodia and Laos no longer worship other Hindu deities that they once had. This indicates that Hinduism absorbed Buddhism in India and it was untouched in those countries / had a resurgence
     
    #14 ronki23, Oct 20, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2021
  15. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    1. Nirvana is 'leela'. He did not really need that or anything else. Even Lord Rama studied under Vasishtha and Vishwamitra, and Krishna under Sandeepani. Did they require any teaching?
    2. Yeah, in India, Hinduism absorbed Buddhism. Elsewhere, Buddhism absorbed Hinduism. So, no problems. Basically, there is no difference for those who understand.
     
    #15 Aupmanyav, Oct 20, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2021
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  16. Viraja

    Viraja Jaya Jagannatha!

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    Everyone's a devotee of Krishna, some know it, some don't. - George Harrison
     
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  17. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    Not that Tulsidas denied Lord Krishna, but his personal choice was Lord Rama. They both are the same.

    "Jāki rahi bhāvanā jaisi, prabhu mūrat tin taise dekhi." (the inclination of the devotee makes him/her see the Lord in that particular form)
     
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  18. Viraja

    Viraja Jaya Jagannatha!

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