Why is being gay considered wrong?

[Scott1]

Hehe...this is fun.. good questions Ryan.:clap

Ok, so how about this... If homosexuality is so bad to god, why do two homosexuals have pleasure when they are in their "acts of sin"?

Humans take pleasure in almost EVERY sin.... that's what makes being a Christian difficult.... it is part of the reason many people reject God: they don't want to deny themselves the pleasure of sin.... they trade pleasure in this world for pleasure in the next world.

This is how god built people, temptation is supposed to come from satan, not god. So god put it there for a reason...

Sin is a choice... a personal choice.... if it's temptation from God/Satan/my own mind it does not matter... what matters is that I know the difference between right and wrong.... God "built" me with a conscience.... so for every "temptation" to sin, there is a grace of God to fight it:

As St. Paul affirms, "Where sin increased, grace abounded all the more." But to do its work grace must uncover sin so as to convert our hearts and bestow on us "righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Like a physician who probes the wound before treating it, God, by his Word and by his Spirit, casts a living light on sin.
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[Draka]

I came back from work and 6 pages appeared out of nowhere :biglaugh: .

I have been holding that the view that they are born gay and therefore how could it be considered "wrong"? There have been many fine points brought up by everyone here and I :clap everyone here for the civil way in which their veiws have been expressed.

I just have one question that has struck me reading the past few pages. Can anyone truly say what "normal" is? Is anyone truly "normal"? We are all very different people and each of us have things about us that others would probably see as not "normal". So is anyone "normal" when we are all different and unique? That is what makes us so special...our differences. Therefore the freckles on my shoulders and my hair color and my religion make me as special in the same way as Jensa is special for her intelligence, her attitude and her sexual orientation, and Sabio special for his veiws, his tact and his sense of humor. We should all embrace the differences we have...it is what makes each of us, us.

 

[Ryan2065]

if it's temptation from God/Satan/my own mind it does not matter...

I thought that temptation comes from satan and that god does not tempt, satan does. At least that is what I was taught at Catholic school...

 

[Scott1]

I thought that temptation comes from satan and that god does not tempt, satan does. At least that is what I was taught at Catholic school...

You are correct.... but that was not my point.... I was talking about fighting that temptation.

You assume bodily/physical temptation is from God... that is incorrect. Just because God created the human form does not mean that any bodily temptation is from God...

"God cannot be tempted by evil and he himself tempts no one"; on the contrary, he wants to set us free from evil. We ask him not to allow us to take the way that leads to sin. We are engaged in the battle "between flesh and spirit"; this petition implores the Spirit of discernment and strength.

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.... but I don't want to get too far ahead... you are going off into some deep stuff.... the battle between "flesh and spirit" and what that means will take a lifetime to explain.

Hope I'm helping you understand our views a little bit....

 

[Ryan2065]

You assume bodily/physical temptation is from God... that is incorrect. Just because God created the human form does not mean that any bodily temptation is from God...

But you see, god made it so that homosexual sex feels good. To me this is god tempting us to have homosexual sex. If god can't tempt us to do something bad, then homosexual sex isn't bad. The reason I bring this up is because the things that cause pleasure in homosexual sex are not the same things that cause pleasure in heterosexual sex. If it was satan tempting us to do this sin, he would have had to alter our bodies in order to tempt us, but we are made in gods image so this is not possible...

 

[Ryan2065]

Hope I'm helping you understand our views a little bit....

Just a side note, yes you are helping me understand your views. I had 12 years of Catholic school and am learning more about Catholics here than I did during those 12 years. This is the down side of having the basketball coaches teach theology...
Back to the discussion! =)

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Humans take pleasure in almost EVERY sin.... that's what makes being a Christian difficult.... it is part of the reason many people reject God: they don't want to deny themselves the pleasure of sin.... they trade pleasure in this world for pleasure in the next world.

Note how those who "reject God" are singled out from those who "reject Christ", because if you insinuate that Jews or Muslims or Hindus are selfish hedonists, it might offend someone. (You know I love you man.)

 

[michel]

Hi chuckles;

Since I notice this is your first post on the forum, I thought that I would like to welcome you to our rapidly expanding family; perhaps we ought to move to a bigger house!


You might like to have a look at :- Articles for New Members ; from there, there is a link to the forum rules, which you ought to see.

Perhaps you would like to mnake a post on Are you new to ReligiousForums.com? , in order to introduce yourself.


I hope you like it here!

 

[Mister Emu]

I'm curious: if the authors of the Bible did not say anything about homosexuality being wrong, would you still believe homosexuality was wrong? Why or why not?

If the Lord had no inspired the authors of the Bible to denounce homosexuality, then no, I would have no reason to find it wrong(inside of marriage).

 

[Ori]

You like apples?
http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/20050028000623data_trunc_sys.shtml

How about them apples?

 

[Voxton]

Homophobia has to be socially conditioned -- just like anti-Semitism, racism or any form of xenophobia. Homosexuality is entirely and completely natural and normal -- homophobia isn't.

I've seen gay Christians argue that the bible verses could be interpreted as, when it says that a man shouldn't lay with another man, as he would with a woman -- it merely means that a man should not have sex with another man in a bed where a man would have sex with a woman -- which obviously is a completely absurd interpretation.

Still, I think it's better (even if it happens to be completely illogical) that someone interprets Christianity in this way. Christianity -- well, all Judeo-Christian-Islamic faiths shows a clear mark of homophobia, that way: If I ever were to accept the notion of an infallible, all-knowing, all-caring God, ya know what -- baby, homophobia just wouldn't be his bag...

It's man-made, folks.

 

[James the Persian]

After having seen the use of natural and normal come up so frequently in this debate, could I just point out that in the Christian view nothing in this life is normal or natural? What we consider natural is actually a result of the corruption of the Fall. Now, whether you accept that or not should be irrelevant. I'm simply pointing that arguing that something is natural does not imply that it's good or part of God's plan from a Christian perspective. I'd also like to point out for the umpteenth time (and Jewscout said something similar re. his faith) that homosexuality is not a sin. Homosexual sex acts are. Therew is a difference.

James

 

[Sabio]

I believe that god's stance on homosexuality is that they are to be put to death (as he says in Lev 20:13)... God is very clear in the bible with his stance on homosexuality. Why don't you all promote the killing of homosexuals? According to god, their blood is on their own hands, not on yours.

The point I'm trying to make here is that if you don't believe that homosexuals should be killed, yet the bible tells you they should be, why do you think it is a sin?

Ryan,

The stoning of homosexuals as quoted from Lev 20:13 is under the old covenant, the law of Moses. Christians are under the New Covenant as taught and contracted by Jesus. So the stoning of homosexuals is no longer valid, loving them and trying to set them straight (no pun intended) is our calling.

Sabio

 

[Sabio]

Ok, so how about this... If homosexuality is so bad to god, why do two homosexuals have pleasure when they are in their "acts of sin"? You can't really say this is satan tempting them, because this is physical. This is how god built people, temptation is supposed to come from satan, not god. So god put it there for a reason...

Ryan, some people take great pleasure in killing, does that make it right? What about those people who take pleasure in gay bashing, is that ok because there is pleasure invloved?

Sabio

 

[michel]

Draka,

How do equate the fact that men's and women's bodies are designed to compliment each other and "fit" together, whereas two men' bodies are not? Is it because evolution forgot about homosexuals?

Sabio

Not to be 'picky' Sabio, but how do you equate the fact that men and women are designed to have children, and that there are countless cases of etheir partner being infertile ? - or the fact that some women have two wombs, or some people are born with their heart on the wrong side of their bodies ?

 

[huajiro]

I believe that first and foremost homosexuals have been ostricized by society because they were misunderstood from the beginning, because they were different from the "norm". I guess it is an instict we have to shun anything different like a herd of animals, instead of trying to learn from it, or understand. Call it the easy way out.

Add to this the fact that homosexuals cannot reproduce with each other. I have stated before in posts that it is my belief that the Church fears this more than the individual. In my opinion, most churches are more like businesses than places for spiritual worship. If their congragation promotes homosexuality, over time who will pay the rent?

I myself have friends who are gay, and I have had the fortune of getting to know them. Their personalities can vary as much as any heterosexual person, and therefore none should be categorized. I can say however that I am all for loving-homosexual relationships, and I am all for being conscious of the planet, and I would have no problem if the whole planet was gay, in spite of the fact that I am not.

 

[Sabio]

Not to be 'picky' Sabio, but how do you equate the fact that men and women are designed to have children, and that there are countless cases of etheir partner being infertile ? - or the fact that some women have two wombs, or some people are born with their heart on the wrong side of their bodies ?

Michel,

I have to refer back to something IacobPersul said a few posts back, our imperfect moral and physical condition is a result of "the fall". Perfection comes when we are reunited with Jesus.

Sabio

 

[Sabio]

I believe that first and foremost homosexuals have been ostricized by society because they were misunderstood from the beginning, because they were different from the "norm". I guess it is an instict we have to shun anything different like a herd of animals, instead of trying to learn from it, or understand. Call it the easy way out.

Add to this the fact that homosexuals cannot reproduce with each other. I have stated before in posts that it is my belief that the Church fears this more than the individual. In my opinion, most churches are more like businesses than places for spiritual worship. If their congragation promotes homosexuality, over time who will pay the rent?

I myself have friends who are gay, and I have had the fortune of getting to know them. Their personalities can vary as much as any heterosexual person, and therefore none should be categorized. I can say however that I am all for loving-homosexual relationships, and I am all for being conscious of the planet, and I would have no problem if the whole planet was gay, in spite of the fact that I am not.

huajiro,

Gays are not ostricized on this forum, they are welcomed and loved (by me). Why not have some of your gay friends weigh in with their viewpoints? Maybe we can learn something new.

Sabio

 

[michel]

Michel,

I have to refer back to something IacobPersul said a few posts back, our imperfect moral and physical condition is a result of "the fall". Perfection comes when we are reunited with Jesus.

Sabio

The fall "As a result of Adam’s sin, all men are now sinners. The Fall was great. It had radical repercussions for the entire human race."

Which I believe can be interpreted as "The moral truth communicated byAdam's sin is that people fall into sin. Sin is a universal problem. Everyone commits sin; no one is perfect. Everyone is his own Adam. Every person has his own private fall. Sin is a universal human condition precisely because every person succumbs to his own private temptation."

How do you equate that with a birth defect? (for sake of example?)

 

[Sabio]

The fall "As a result of Adam’s sin, all men are now sinners. The Fall was great. It had radical repercussions for the entire human race."

Which I believe can be interpreted as "The moral truth communicated byAdam's sin is that people fall into sin. Sin is a universal problem. Everyone commits sin; no one is perfect. Everyone is his own Adam. Every person has his own private fall. Sin is a universal human condition precisely because every person succumbs to his own private temptation."

How do you equate that with a birth defect? (for sake of example?)

Before the fall there was perfection, perfect harmony between plants, animals, man. (as it will be again when Christ returns Hallelujah!) When sin came into the world moral and physical deterioration began, the life span of man decreased rapidly, sickness and disease came into the world (which were not know before the fall), etc. This deterioration of the "state" of man results in the birth defects you mention. But there are clear examples in the NT of Jesus healing birth defects, these are worth studying and meditating on. The interesting irony is that many times people with birth defects also have great gifts from God, look at some of the incredible musicians who are blind, Stevie Wonder, Ray Charles, etc !

I think we have a semantical difference about sin, you say man "falls" into sin, I believe the Bible teaches that man "chooses" to sin in rebellion against God as the Genesis story of Adam and Eve teaches.

Blessings Michel, your search will yield great and lasting treasure.

Sabio