Why is a man allowed to have more than one wife in Islam?

[Aquitaine]

that would never come to happen.

women are not permited to mary more than one husband (not just according to islam)

Why is it not permitted?

 

[Bismillah]

Also, again you say it was the practice of the time, but we're taling about God's right-hand man here, yet he still decides to submit to Cultural norms of the time.

Obviously you didn't even attempt to read why Muhammed married Aisha. I cannot argue with someone who doesn't even read the post. You seem to be attacking the culture not the religion. It was the culture almost every place in the world. I don't know why you seem to be signalling out Arabia. You are also unable to comprehend that today's values cannot be transplanted to society 1400 years ago.

Erm, he did engage in such sick activities; he married and slept with a child. As for why he married her, I don't know, maybe he wanted to add to his already excessive collection of wives, and wanted a young one for personal greed.

I am arguing that the Prophet Muhammed was not a Pedophile. Thus he didn't engage in pedophilia though I most likely phrased the sentence poorly.

You have failed to respond to the evidence I have provided. You continue to blame the culture of society which you seem not to understand. It was not a culture of having sex with young girls. It was marrying women that were women in society's eyes.

Their lives were half as long as life expectancy in advanced countries like America. The earlier the die the younger you marry. This is simple, I don't understand what is daunting about this prospect.

Bias? C'mon, I'm observing what I see in Islamic texts, he married what..... 11 Women, and married a child - no matter how hard you try to twist it, you cannot deny such things happened.

Yes he married them. They weren't his concubines. They weren't his sex slaves. They didn't live in a rich harem. He didn't indulge in luxuries. He didn't marry someone for years on end after his first wife died. Why would he want to, just for carnal desires, so suddenly. You deny historical proof and rationality.

There's only so much you can hide behind translations, it obivously tells of him having sex with her, and therefore consummating his marriage.

Click the link. It will explain what Nikah is and how your sexual connotation of consummation does not apply.

 

[Aquitaine]

Obviously you didn't even attempt to read why Muhammed married Aisha.

Why? What was it? What was this honourable noble cause that justified him to marry a child?

End of the day, does it really matter what anyone tryies to say about "why" he married a child? He married a child, and at the age of 9 she moved to his house once her hair started to grow back, she brought her toys with her too, and then Mo' consummated his marriage with her. It's that simple. No honourable reason can justify a fully grown Man marrying and having sex with a 9 year old.

You have failed to respond to the evidence I have provided. You continue to blame the culture of society which you seem not to understand. It was not a culture of having sex with young girls. It was marrying women that were women in society's eyes.

Nope, It's actually the other way around, you are blaming the actions of Mo' on the Cultural norms of the society at the time. Did God's Apostle bother to amend these cultural aspects? No, he went along with them.

Their lives were half as long as life expectancy in advanced countries like America. The earlier the die the younger you marry. This is simple, I don't understand what is daunting about this prospect.

Except if you're a Male, then you marry much later in life, no matter how short your life expentancy is, as you said in the previous post. It seems to me not to be that the younger you are the earlier you marry, but instead the younger the girl the earlier she marries an older man. Now that doesn't add up......

"The rule for men was different because physical power and the ability of living an independent life had always been a mandatory requirement for men to have in life. So men waited much longer than women in terms of getting married. that is why girls as young as 9 or 10 were married to men as old as 30 or even older. "

Yes he married them. They weren't his concubines. They weren't his sex slaves. They didn't live in a rich harem. He didn't indulge in luxuries. He didn't marry someone for years on end after his first wife died. Why would he want to, just for carnal desires, so suddenly. You deny historical proof and rationality.

How am I denyig historical evidence and rationality? I said he married 11 Women, and you agreed........ Also, where did the sex-slaves and concubbines come from, I never mentioned anything like that? Oh and, he didn't live in a rich Harem, or indulge in luxuries?! The Man had 11 wives......

Click the link. It will explain what Nikah is and how your sexual connotation of consummation does not apply.

OH all the vast transaltions I read, I see "consummated" in pracitcally all of them. Now, the people who translate this stuff arn't idiots, they seem to be abl to get accurate translations for everything else, so why would they slip up here? If the "consummation" was just an act of sealing the marriage contract, then why doesn't it say "formalize" or something along that line?

No, instead it has been translated by multiple interpretors/translators as "consummate". You can't try and twist it any further. You may as well be saying that the word "beat" in Koran 434 actually means "light, symbolic tap".

 

[Gharib]

Why is it not permitted?

How Imam Abu Hanifa received his kunya (i think it means name)​

Abu Hanifa' is an unusual name because it means 'the father of Hanifah', and Hanifah was his daughter. It was not the custom in those days to do this. Normally, the name would be 'the father of the name of a son.'How this came about is quite edifying. One day the great Imam Abu Hanifa was asked a question that, for the first time in his illustrious career, he was unable to answer. The question was, "Whywere women forbidden to marry more than one husband at a time?" To make a long story short, Abu Hanifa's daughter said that she knew the answer and would solve this question if her father would make a promise to her that if she succeeded in solving this problem, he would then assure her a place in history. Abu Hanifa agreed. So she gathered a group of women together and gave each of them a cup. Then she brought in a large bowl of milk and asked each of them to dip their cups in the milk and to fill their cups. They did so. She then asked them to pour back the milk into the bowl. They did this too. She then asked them to re-fill their cups taking back only their own milk that they had poured into the bowl. This, obviously, was impossible to do. Hanifah had clearly demonstrated the kind of predicament that would be created if a woman had several husbands. With more than one husband, if she were to become pregnant, she would have exceptional difficulties determining who the actual father was. Identifying parentage and lineage would then be insurmountable for the offspring. Imam Abu Hanifa was so pleased with her answer that he took the name 'Abu Hanifa', 'the father of Hanifah', so his daughter did indeed earn a place in history.

http://www.sunnah.org/history/Scholars/How%20Abu%20Hanifa%20got%20his%20kunya.htm


is that good enough?

 

[Aquitaine]

How Imam Abu Hanifa received his kunya (i think it means name)​

Abu Hanifa' is an unusual name because it means 'the father of Hanifah', and Hanifah was his daughter. It was not the custom in those days to do this. Normally, the name would be 'the father of the name of a son.'How this came about is quite edifying. One day the great Imam Abu Hanifa was asked a question that, for the first time in his illustrious career, he was unable to answer. The question was, "Whywere women forbidden to marry more than one husband at a time?" To make a long story short, Abu Hanifa's daughter said that she knew the answer and would solve this question if her father would make a promise to her that if she succeeded in solving this problem, he would then assure her a place in history. Abu Hanifa agreed. So she gathered a group of women together and gave each of them a cup. Then she brought in a large bowl of milk and asked each of them to dip their cups in the milk and to fill their cups. They did so. She then asked them to pour back the milk into the bowl. They did this too. She then asked them to re-fill their cups taking back only their own milk that they had poured into the bowl. This, obviously, was impossible to do. Hanifah had clearly demonstrated the kind of predicament that would be created if a woman had several husbands. With more than one husband, if she were to become pregnant, she would have exceptional difficulties determining who the actual father was. Identifying parentage and lineage would then be insurmountable for the offspring. Imam Abu Hanifa was so pleased with her answer that he took the name 'Abu Hanifa', 'the father of Hanifah', so his daughter did indeed earn a place in history.

http://www.sunnah.org/history/Scholars/How%20Abu%20Hanifa%20got%20his%20kunya.htm


is that good enough?

Unfortunately, no. In fact I've heard that story before, and it still doesn't give any credible reason why Polygyny, but not Polyandry is allowed.

How the milk example relates to the issues of Polyandry I do not know, especially when it doesn't apply to the issues of Polygyny. If there were a group of Men who did the same thing with the milk bowl, could they retrieve the exact same milk agian from the main bowl? No. But what that has to do with Polygamy, I do not know.

Not only that, but we have DNA technology nowadays that can easily enable us to indentify who a child belongs to (if there are multiple Men invovled) so the "justification" is just as poor as it is redundant.

 

[Gharib]

so first you didn't understand my example then you end up trying to dissprove it, nice.

paul are you aware that knowing who the father is, isn't the only issue here?

there are physical as well as mental issues associated with that.

muslim families are quite large in numbers compared to non muslim families.
so if a woman marries say 3 men and they each want at least 6 or 7 kids.......do try to imagine that.......she would have to give birth year after year for atleast 18 or 21 years.

please tell me you think thats a bit too much.

if that was to happen, then the wife would be just a breeding machine, she would have her rights taken away, she would be separated from her children (just as the man has to give all his wives a house each the husbands must have one each in this case).

now just to make this interesting and to support it by facts, do ask a female from your family if she would be willing to go through that (nothing personal meant) and post the answer i will be happy hear back from you.

 

[Aquitaine]

muslim families are quite large in numbers compared to non muslim families.
so if a woman marries say 3 men and they each want at least 6 or 7 kids.......do try to imagine that.......she would have to give birth year after year for atleast 18 or 21 years.

3 Husbands wanting 7 children each is no different from 1 Husband wanting 21 children.

Besides, who's to say it's all about "want" when it comes to having a family? Who cares if each Husband wants 7 kids each, they'll all share fatherhood of however many children happen to be born, even if it's just 1. That's the idea, that's the deal, the marriage is a unity between all people involved, it's not just a way for individuals to get what they want and then separate.

"Yeah I'm only marrying you so I can get like 7 kids, innit".

please tell me you think thats a bit too much.

Yes, I do think it is a bit much for each Husband to want to have 7 kids each, even though they're all supposed to act as a family and should be gratefull of whatever comes out of the Mother's Womb.

if that was to happen, then the wife would be just a breeding machine, she would have her rights taken away, she would be separated from her children (just as the man has to give all his wives a house each the husbands must have one each in this case).

Explain to me how a giving birth to a large amount of children can take away a Womans "rights"?

Also, why would they be separated? Shouldn't they all just consolidate their money and buy one big house, rather than multiple little ones?
Not only that, but if separation via houses is one of your concerns, then the same happens with Polygyny with the Wives having houses of their own.

now just to make this interesting and to support it by facts, do ask a female from your family if she would be willing to go through that (nothing personal meant) and post the answer i will be happy hear back from you.

I have 4 females in my family (1 Mother, and 3 Sisters). Two of them are here, and they both say they would not want 21 children, multiple Husbands, or be part of a Polygyny relationship. They believe in 1 Husband and 1 Wife, together.
I'd imagnie the other two would say the same.

Where does that lead us?

 

[Azariyah]

so first you didn't understand my example then you end up trying to dissprove it, nice.

Do not despair. Even though we worship the one true El differently we do understand and agree with most of what you have said as to polygyny. Some just hate to be hating while others hate for lack of knowledge. Some even with knowledge choose to continue in ignorance.

 

[Katzpur]

In fact God, in any manifestation in the eternal spiritual realm, has one wife/companion. In fact God is the union of the male and female counterparts. One man and one woman make a whole.

Could you elaborate on this, Madhuri? Are you saying that God is male and has a female companion (i.e. a godess)?

 

[Katzpur]

3 Husbands wanting 7 children each is no different from 1 Husband wanting 21 children.

Physically, though, it would be easier for 3 women to produce 7 children each than it would be for 1 woman to produce 21 children. One man can father a lot more children than one woman can give birth to. In cases where the logic behind the practice of polygamy is to increase a given population, it would stand to reason that a man could marry more than one woman but a woman would not be permitted to marry more than one man. I'm not saying that's how it is with Islam, but that's how it was in the early days of Mormonism when polygamy was practiced.

 

[Gharib]

3 Husbands wanting 7 children each is no different from 1 Husband wanting 21 children.

yes i know thanks for the maths lecture.

Besides, who's to say it's all about "want" when it comes to having a family? Who cares if each Husband wants 7 kids each, they'll all share fatherhood of however many children happen to be born, even if it's just 1. That's the idea, that's the deal, the marriage is a unity between all people involved, it's not just a way for individuals to get what they want and then separate.

are you serious or sarcastic again?

just before you said that we can determine who the father is through DNA tests and now you are saying that it's ok for a child to have 3 fathers? we're back to the mental issues that i mentioned. we're just going in circles Paul.

"Yeah I'm only marrying you so I can get like 7 kids, innit".

oh come on, you know thats not how it works.

have you ever met anyone who has gotten married just to have kids and not love his wife? try to be reasonable will ya?

Yes, I do think it is a bit much for each Husband to want to have 7 kids each, even though they're all supposed to act as a family and should be gratefull of whatever comes out of the Mother's Womb.

yeah just like my grandfather had 9 kids, or just like another lady had 21 but unfortunately most of them died a little while after being born, so they kept trying.

that still means they are a family, don't forget that.

Explain to me how a giving birth to a large amount of children can take away a Womans "rights"?

well in islam a woman can earn her own money if she wants to, so we cross that option out.
she can go out where she wants to, but we can cross that out too.
she can have her own car if she wants to, but a car or a van wont fit 21 kids in it, we cross that out too.

would you like me to keep going?

Also, why would they be separated? Shouldn't they all just consolidate their money and buy one big house, rather than multiple little ones?

so 3 men that are married to the same woman would be fine sharing a house with one another? do you really think that?
let me qoute something:

I have 4 females in my family (1 Mother, and 3 Sisters). Two of them are here, and they both say they would not want 21 children, multiple Husbands, or be part of a Polygyny relationship. They believe in 1 Husband and 1 Wife, together.
I'd imagnie the other two would say the same.

Not only that, but if separation via houses is one of your concerns, then the same happens with Polygyny with the Wives having houses of their own.

women are given a house each in a polygamy marriage in islam. the law doesn't allow 3 or 4 women to live at the same house. so it would be reasonable to say 3 men should have their own "multiple little ones" instead of having to "consolidate their money and buy one big house"

I have 4 females in my family (1 Mother, and 3 Sisters). Two of them are here, and they both say they would not want 21 children, multiple Husbands, or be part of a Polygyny relationship. They believe in 1 Husband and 1 Wife, together.
I'd imagnie the other two would say the same.

yeah so that why a marriage contract exists in islam, women can say that they do not want their husband to marry other women.

Where does that lead us?

i think that leads to the end of the discussion, what do you recon?

 

[Gharib]

Physically, though, it would be easier for 3 women to produce 7 children each than it would be for 1 woman to produce 21 children. One man can father a lot more children than one woman can give birth to. In cases where the logic behind the practice of polygamy is to increase a given population, it would stand to reason that a man could marry more than one woman but a woman would not be permitted to marry more than one man. I'm not saying that's how it is with Islam, but that's how it was in the early days of Mormonism when polygamy was practiced.[/font]

i don't know if thats how it is in islam, but here is an example of why someone might want a second wife;

a couple gets married right, but the wife can't have any kids. so instead of the man having to divorce his first love and his first wife, he gets married to another one and keeps the first wife also.

there are some had that say women numbers will be more than the number of men so polygamy will be the only anwer to that. and a time will come that 50 women will be loked after by one man.

 

[Bismillah]

Sorry for being a bit short earlier, it was quite late and my head was pounding :sad4: That said I would appreciate it if you would at least stop referring to the Prophet as "Mo". I find it disrespectful and not necessary for a thoughtful and open minded debate. Now to address your points.

Why? What was it? What was this honourable noble cause that justified him to marry a child?

She was not a child.

child (ch

ld)n. pl. chil·dren (ch

l

dr

n) 1. a. A person between birth and puberty.
b. A person who has not attained maturity or the age of legal majority.
(Child - definition of Child by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.)

Aisha had already reached puberty and thus was and is considered an adult in Islamic Culture. Children, once reaching puberty, are expected to be treated with the same religious responsibilities as an adult would.

You cannot transplant your definition of a child back 1400 years. Their life expectancy was half that of today's. Comparatively she was in her late teens from today's standards. I know many girls who have had sex much earlier then that.

Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) did not seek to marry Aisha. The proposal was bought up to him by his closest companion and was a means to build his relationship with his companion and "right hand man". Akin to kings marrying princesses to secure political ties.

As for the cause. I have quite a lengthy paragraph of the positive consequences of the marriage. They are proof that this marriage, despite any arguments, did significantly help Islam.

Nope, It's actually the other way around, you are blaming the actions of Mo' on the Cultural norms of the society at the time. Did God's Apostle bother to amend these cultural aspects? No, he went along with them.

I'm not blaming his actions on anything. He had everyright to marry the women offered to him in marriage. Aisha prospered of the marriage and wrote lovingly of the Prophet. She exhibited none of the mental scars that many other women exhibit at the hands of pedophiles. She actually became one of the most respected scholars in the history of Islam. So can you explain to me why she does not show a response to the supposed acts that you speak of?

These are not cultural norms. These are necessities needed to help a society grow. It was not feasible to wait for a women to grow to 20 when she had a strong likelihood of passing away before then. What you imply would have stunted any society and destroyed any chance of another generation.

Except if you're a Male, then you marry much later in life, no matter how short your life expentancy is, as you said in the previous post. It seems to me not to be that the younger you are the earlier you marry, but instead the younger the girl the earlier she marries an older man. Now that doesn't add up......

A male marries later in life because he is expected to support his family. He is expected to go to war. He is expected to commit himself to tasks that are not suitable for a man in the body of a 13 year old.

No, men did not periodically marry women at such a young age. You have seen the statistics of Prophet Muhammad's marriages and the vast majority of them were aged widows. It was acceptable to marry a younger women because her duties were not restricted by her body.

The Prophet amended many aspects of society. He banned the burring alive of female infants, he elevated the status of women in society, and he demanded that widows be supported, to prevent them from becoming common prostitutes. These are some of the things that come off the top of my head, he instituted many more practices that elevated the status of women and continue to do so today.

How am I denyig historical evidence and rationality? I said he married 11 Women, and you agreed........ Also, where did the sex-slaves and concubbines come from, I never mentioned anything like that? Oh and, he didn't live in a rich Harem, or indulge in luxuries?! The Man had 11 wives......

You are denying historical evidence and rationality when you imply the Prophet married these women for carnal desires. This accusation just doesn't make sense logically. Why would a man who could summon the most beautiful virgins of Arabia be content with old women? Moreover why would he even marry them? It would be easier to keep them as concubines. To exploit them. However the Prophet supported and fostered these women in their times of need. He made them a part of the Ummah and ensured that they were not forgotten. He genuinely cared for these women. Also the Prophet rejected luxuries. His lifestyle was the complete opposite of that of a Harem, perhaps you should look up what a Harem actually is...

OH all the vast transaltions I read, I see "consummated" in pracitcally all of them. Now, the people who translate this stuff arn't idiots, they seem to be abl to get accurate translations for everything else, so why would they slip up here? If the "consummation" was just an act of sealing the marriage contract, then why doesn't it say "formalize" or something along that line?

The Arabic term is Nikah.Nikah is where the translation stems from. The English translation of Nikah is quite different from anything relating to sexual meanings. Nikah cannot be twisted to mean anything vaguely sexual and hence the English translation cannot be taken to mean anything sexual.

Now it doesn't look like you actually read the definition of consummation. Consummation doesn't have to be engaging in sexual acts to confirm the marriage of a couple. This is a Catholic tradition. Consummation has a denotation (dictionary definition) of completing a formal agreement. The Prophet completed his agreement by marrying Aisha and bringing her in his household. This is the completion of the contract. Introducing Christian principles to Midevil Arabia is sheer fallacy. There is no slip up . You are simply ignoring the definition of consummation and fitting the definition that "works" into your arguments. The translators were right to use the word and it shouldn't provoke any arguments if looked at objectively.

 

[Aquitaine]

are you serious or sarcastic again?

just before you said that we can determine who the father is through DNA tests and now you are saying that it's ok for a child to have 3 fathers? we're back to the mental issues that i mentioned. we're just going in circles Paul.

Actually, no. I'm not saying it's okay for a child to have 3 Fathers, I'm just saying that the way you put it across "What if the Men all want 7 children each" sounded like the Men were being far too picky, and rather than being grateful for what they were given, instead wanted 7 children each, as if they were medals or something.

oh come on, you know thats not how it works.

have you ever met anyone who has gotten married just to have kids and not love his wife? try to be reasonable will ya?

It is very likely that many Western Women will find that situation, if they're married by a Man who wants kids, and then he doesn't love her, by marrying another Woman and leaving her - which is something practiced legitimately in Islam (Polygyny).
Let's not forget a lot of people in the World would see such a thing as an act of "cheating", and therefore would be a sign that the cheater doesn't love them.

Having trouble understanding it? Well then just flip it upside and look at it as if a Woman married a second Husband, then you'll see it as cheating.

well in islam a woman can earn her own money if she wants to, so we cross that option out.
she can go out where she wants to, but we can cross that out too.
she can have her own car if she wants to, but a car or a van wont fit 21 kids in it, we cross that out too.

would you like me to keep going?

Well of course, the number 21 is very large, and regardless would render most situations as abnormal. But I mean a large amount of children, it could be 6-8 for example. But regardless, it doesn't sign away her "Rights", it's just that she now has to compromise her normal lifestyle to fit the new responciblities (her many children).
The same thing would apply to the Father of the large number of children:

He used to able to relax a lot at home and go on vacation more with his Wife, he can't anymore because he's too busy working his backside off trying to pay for all these kids (even more reason why Polyandry would be "usefull" in such scenario - even though ultimately I'm against it, but y' know, I'm just saying.....)

He's now gotta sacrifice his days off, and he can no longer go out for fun or spend his money on things for himself, cause he's got new repsonsibilities (the many children).

Having 21 children would affect both the Mother and Father.

so 3 men that are married to the same woman would be fine sharing a house with one another? do you really think that?

I believe users here, Nanda and UltraViolet are Poly..... erm, I forgot the term lol, but they are "married" to multiple Men and Women as a group. I believe Nanda has two Males and 1 Female, a total of 4 living together.

Plus, if they're supposed to be a family and united, then why should they live in separate homes? If the Men didn't wanna share a house with the other Men, then they wouldn't have bothered marrying a Woman who practices Polyandry.

women are given a house each in a polygamy marriage in islam. the law doesn't allow 3 or 4 women to live at the same house. so it would be reasonable to say 3 men should have their own "multiple little ones" instead of having to "consolidate their money and buy one big house"

Why doesn't Islamic law allow 3 or 4 Women to share a house if they're all married to each other/the same Husband? What's the problem with that?

so that why a marriage contract exists in islam, women can say that they do not want their husband to marry other women.

Is there also a contract where Husbands can object to their Wives marrying multiple Men, yet in general the practice can still be carried out if they both consent to it (like with Polygyny)?

i think that leads to the end of the discussion, what do you recon?

Awww c'mon, why do you wanna break off now? We didn't even get our pants off yet -_-

 

[Aquitaine]

i don't know if thats how it is in islam, but here is an example of why someone might want a second wife;

a couple gets married right, but the wife can't have any kids. so instead of the man having to divorce his first love and his first wife, he gets married to another one and keeps the first wife also.

there are some had that say women numbers will be more than the number of men so polygamy will be the only anwer to that. and a time will come that 50 women will be loked after by one man.

What if the Husband is impotent, or has ineffective sperm? Can then, by the same logic, the Wife marry a second Husband instead of having to divorce the first one?

 

[Aquitaine]

Physically, though, it would be easier for 3 women to produce 7 children each than it would be for 1 woman to produce 21 children. One man can father a lot more children than one woman can give birth to. In cases where the logic behind the practice of polygamy is to increase a given population, it would stand to reason that a man could marry more than one woman but a woman would not be permitted to marry more than one man. I'm not saying that's how it is with Islam, but that's how it was in the early days of Mormonism when polygamy was practiced.

[/FONT]

If there's a population shortage, we always have sperm donors. There'll be the same amount of Women producing babies, except they'll have their own Monogamous Husband to go with it. It's a win-win situation.

 

[blackout]

i don't know if thats how it is in islam, but here is an example of why someone might want a second wife;

a couple gets married right, but the wife can't have any kids. so instead of the man having to divorce his first love and his first wife, he gets married to another one and keeps the first wife also.

And if it is the HUSBAND who is sterile....

 

[blackout]

Also, I know that single households where the wife has two "husbands" can work.

I know... because I know a household where this is so.
(of course the second male cannot be a legal husband because of the laws)

 

[Gharib]

Also, I know that single households where the wife has two "husbands" can work.

I know... because I know a household where this is so.
(of course the second male cannot be a legal husband because of the laws)

well thank you very much, see we have facts and evidence that a woman being married to 2 or more men does not work, where as a man being married to 2 or more women does work.

thanks for your supporting post UV.

 

[blackout]

well thank you very much, see we have facts and evidence that a woman being married to 2 or more men does not work, where as a man being married to 2 or more women does work.

thanks for your supporting post UV.

what?

I just said it does work.
Please re-read my post.