Perfect Circle
Just Browsing
Oh you want to continue your folly. So be it.
Oh, but I do... :yes:
However, I don't want to hijack this thread. If I were to start a thread about following every single commandment in the Torah, would you join me there?
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Why is a man allowed to have more than one wife in Islam?
- Thread starter Zhakir
- Start date
Oh, but I do... :yes:
However, I don't want to hijack this thread. If I were to start a thread about following every single commandment in the Torah, would you join me there?
Sure. Just send the link.
In my understanding, There isn't any reasons for one practice to be over another if one chooses not to abide by the Torah.
Perfect Circle
Just Browsing
Aquitaine
Well-Known Member
Umm.... I'm for it.
Well then, one of us has to pretend to be the Muslim in the debate lol, and I don't wanna play that role ^_^
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
That would be a delicious role to play, but I will have to pass because it would probably get me into hot water with the mods.
I think that women should have their own harems. We should live in a society that sees females as superior and basically Divine. We govern the law and society and choose which men should father our children. These men live in the harems and only leave to do jobs and labour.:yes:
What do y'all think?
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
I would willingly embrace being an official "Play toy of the Goddess".What do y'all think?
Aquitaine
Well-Known Member
What do y'all think?
Pffft, how about you get back in the kitchen and start cooking?
What d'ya think?
LOL!
Pffft, how about you get back in the kitchen and start cooking?
What d'ya think?
LOL!
Come on Paul, you know you want in on my idea. Don't be shy now!
And hey, in my society you can choose between being a boy toy or a domestic god. Of course, if you lived in my harem you'd be both, because a man cooking, cleaning, ironing etc. is a huge turn on
Aquitaine
Well-Known Member
And hey, in my society you can choose between being a boy toy or a domestic god. Of course, if you lived in my harem you'd be both, because a man cooking, cleaning, ironing etc. is a huge turn on
Hmmmmmm..........
<*damn, Madhuri makes a tempting proposition......*>
I'll...... consider it....... later.
Gharib
I want Khilafah back
A wife refusing her husband a co-wife
Is there any ruling that says in a marraige contract that a wife can refuse her husband a co-wife?
Praise be to Allaah.
Ibn Qudaamah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in his book Al-Mughni:
“If he married her on the condition that he should not make her move from her house or her city, then this condition is valid, because it was reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘The most deserving of conditions to be fulfilled are those by means of which sexual intercourse becomes permissible for you.’ If he married her on the condition that he will not marry another wife, then she has the right to leave him if he does take another wife.” In conclusion, then, the conditions of the marriage contract are divided into three types, one of which must be adhered to, which is of benefit to the wife, such as her being able to stipulate that he cannot make her move from her house or city, or travel with him, or take another wife or a concubine. He has to adhere to these conditions, and if he does not, then she has the right to annul the marriage.” (Al-Mughni by Ibn Qudaamah, part 7, Kitaab al-Nikaah).
Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) was asked this question and he replied in Al-Fataawa al-Kubra:
“Question: a man married a woman and she stipulated that he should not take another wife or make her move from her house, and that she could stay with her mother, so he married her on this basis. Does he have to adhere to this, and if he goes against these conditions, does his wife have the right to annul the marriage or not?
Answer: yes, these conditions and similar ones are valid according to the madhhab of Imaam Ahmad and other scholars among the Sahaabah and Taabi’een, such as ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab, ‘Amr ibn al-‘Aas, Shurayh al-Qaadi, al-Oozaa’i and Ishaaq. According to the madhhab of Maalik, the condition states that if he marries another wife, (the first wife) has the choice of what to do, and this is a valid condition. The woman has the right to leave him in this case. This is similar to the idea in the Madhhab of Imaam Ahmad. The basis for this is the hadeeth narrated by (al-Bukhaari and Muslim) in al-Saheehayn from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): ‘The most deserving of conditions to be fulfilled are those by means of which sexual intercourse becomes permissible for you.’ ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab said: ‘Rights are in accordance with conditions.’ The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) dictated that the conditions which make sexual intercourse permissible are more deserving of fulfilment than others. This is the ruling on conditions of this nature.”
Ibn Qudaamah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in his book Al-Mughni:
“If he married her on the condition that he should not make her move from her house or her city, then this condition is valid, because it was reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘The most deserving of conditions to be fulfilled are those by means of which sexual intercourse becomes permissible for you.’ If he married her on the condition that he will not marry another wife, then she has the right to leave him if he does take another wife.” In conclusion, then, the conditions of the marriage contract are divided into three types, one of which must be adhered to, which is of benefit to the wife, such as her being able to stipulate that he cannot make her move from her house or city, or travel with him, or take another wife or a concubine. He has to adhere to these conditions, and if he does not, then she has the right to annul the marriage.” (Al-Mughni by Ibn Qudaamah, part 7, Kitaab al-Nikaah).
Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) was asked this question and he replied in Al-Fataawa al-Kubra:
“Question: a man married a woman and she stipulated that he should not take another wife or make her move from her house, and that she could stay with her mother, so he married her on this basis. Does he have to adhere to this, and if he goes against these conditions, does his wife have the right to annul the marriage or not?
Answer: yes, these conditions and similar ones are valid according to the madhhab of Imaam Ahmad and other scholars among the Sahaabah and Taabi’een, such as ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab, ‘Amr ibn al-‘Aas, Shurayh al-Qaadi, al-Oozaa’i and Ishaaq. According to the madhhab of Maalik, the condition states that if he marries another wife, (the first wife) has the choice of what to do, and this is a valid condition. The woman has the right to leave him in this case. This is similar to the idea in the Madhhab of Imaam Ahmad. The basis for this is the hadeeth narrated by (al-Bukhaari and Muslim) in al-Saheehayn from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): ‘The most deserving of conditions to be fulfilled are those by means of which sexual intercourse becomes permissible for you.’ ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab said: ‘Rights are in accordance with conditions.’ The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) dictated that the conditions which make sexual intercourse permissible are more deserving of fulfilment than others. This is the ruling on conditions of this nature.”
does that kind of help anyone?
Aquitaine
Well-Known Member
Gharib
I want Khilafah back
that would never come to happen.
women are not permited to mary more than one husband (not just according to islam)
Bismillah
Submit
Sorry for the late response. Swim practice, homework, and college applications are killing me, though I think I managed a suitable response to your post. )(
[FONT=Verdana,Arial][FONT=Verdana,Arial]"Pedophile: also spelled PEDOPHILIA, psychosexual disorder in which an adult's arousal and sexual gratification occur primarily through sexual contact with prepubescent children. The typical pedophile is unable to find satisfaction in an adult sexual relationship and may have low self-esteem, seeing sexual activity with a child as less threatening than that with an adult." Encyclopedia Britannica, 1998[/FONT][/FONT]
This definition in regards to Muhammad (PBUH), does not apply at all.
Name of BrideBride's age at marriage
Khadija bint Khawilad 40 Twice widowed before
Sauda bint Zama 50 Widow
Aisha bint Abu Bakr 9 Started living with the prophet at the age of 9
Hafsa bint Umar bin Khattab 22 Widow
Zainab bint Khuzaima 30
Umm-I-Salma bint Abu Umayia 26 Widow
Zainab Bint Jahash 38 Widow
Juwaeria Bint Harith 20 Widow
Umm-I-Habiba bint Abu Sufyan 36 Widow
Marya Qibtiya bint Shamun 17 Virgin Egyptian
Safia bint Hayi bin Akhtab 17 Widow
Raihana bint Umru bin Hanafa Not available
Maimuna bint Harith 36 Widow
91% of the Women the Prophet did marry were 17 years or older.
75% of his wives were widows.
[FONT=Verdana,Arial][FONT=Verdana,Arial]The statistics show that the prophet’s marriage to Aisha at her young age was an exception and not a norm of his other marriages. Furthermore 'a pedophile’s main mode of sexual satisfaction is with prepubescent girls', which is contradictory to the 91% of prophet’s marriage to women 17 years and over. An unbiased examination of Prophet’s life and his marriages to his wives blatantly rejects the notion of his lifestyle fitting that of a pedophile. All his brides were aged widows (except Aisha and Marium). [/FONT][/FONT]
[http://www.beautifulislam.net/women/young_aishah.htm]
ZAWAJ.COM: Articles and Essays
It is then shown that consummation, at least in this context, does not have any sexual references. The word consummation was chosen because it is the formal fufilement of a document or contract. The only reason the sexual meaning is used frequently is the Christian cultural view that marriage is consummated when the grooms engage in sex for the first time. (Consummation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
Then the sexual meanings that you take from the misinterpreted Hadith are not applicable at all.
The standards of todays society cannot be applied 1400 years ago. It was the custom of the time to marry your children early before they succumbed to disease and death. For example the parents of Prophet Muhammad, himself, peace be upon him died natural deaths before he even knew them. His father, Abdallah bin Hashem, died while Amina bint Wahb (Amy in English as Mary for Mariam), Muhammad's mother was still pregnant with Muhammad. After she gave birth, she died when he was 2 years old (I believe). Muhammad was the only child of his parents.
Since it is the custom not just of Arabia, but the majority of societies past to marry children off at an early age. Are you asserting that every single on of these men was subconsciously a pedophile? If Prophet Muhammed did engage in such sick activities, God forbid, then why would have married Aisha? Wouldn't it be simpler to engage in such activities and leave her to cope? That is what the majority of Pedophiles do, they never invest the time, nourishment, and love the Prophet did on his beloved wife.
Finally the marriage was legal since the intention (niyat) of Prophet Muhammad was just and righteous. Here is a list of the benefits of the marriage for Islam and Muslim Society.
Why do you define the practice of polygamy and others as practices confined to Islam? It is a stated fact that they were and are (in some cases) present in the Judeo-Christian tradition as well. Do you selectively apply your critiques? It was the practice of the time, you cannot deny history.
You are comparing two irrelevant figures from today's society to that of Medieval Arabia. 9 year old seems shockingly young for a society that enjoys life expectancies in the 80s, whereas in Arabia it was in the 50s and 40s. This would put Aisha, comparatively, in her late teens according to today's figures. Let alone the fact that women in Arabia are show[/] to menstruate earlier and age quicker then women in Europe. Thus this along with the belief that boys and girls are adults once they reach puberty negates any arguments of "child molestation".
[FONT=Verdana,Arial][FONT=Verdana,Arial]"Pedophile: also spelled PEDOPHILIA, psychosexual disorder in which an adult's arousal and sexual gratification occur primarily through sexual contact with prepubescent children. The typical pedophile is unable to find satisfaction in an adult sexual relationship and may have low self-esteem, seeing sexual activity with a child as less threatening than that with an adult." Encyclopedia Britannica, 1998[/FONT][/FONT]
This definition in regards to Muhammad (PBUH), does not apply at all.
Name of BrideBride's age at marriage
Khadija bint Khawilad 40 Twice widowed before
Sauda bint Zama 50 Widow
Aisha bint Abu Bakr 9 Started living with the prophet at the age of 9
Hafsa bint Umar bin Khattab 22 Widow
Zainab bint Khuzaima 30
Umm-I-Salma bint Abu Umayia 26 Widow
Zainab Bint Jahash 38 Widow
Juwaeria Bint Harith 20 Widow
Umm-I-Habiba bint Abu Sufyan 36 Widow
Marya Qibtiya bint Shamun 17 Virgin Egyptian
Safia bint Hayi bin Akhtab 17 Widow
Raihana bint Umru bin Hanafa Not available
Maimuna bint Harith 36 Widow
91% of the Women the Prophet did marry were 17 years or older.
75% of his wives were widows.
[FONT=Verdana,Arial][FONT=Verdana,Arial]The statistics show that the prophet’s marriage to Aisha at her young age was an exception and not a norm of his other marriages. Furthermore 'a pedophile’s main mode of sexual satisfaction is with prepubescent girls', which is contradictory to the 91% of prophet’s marriage to women 17 years and over. An unbiased examination of Prophet’s life and his marriages to his wives blatantly rejects the notion of his lifestyle fitting that of a pedophile. All his brides were aged widows (except Aisha and Marium). [/FONT][/FONT]
[http://www.beautifulislam.net/women/young_aishah.htm]
It is important to know that girls during the Biblical and Islamic days used to be married off at young ages when they either had their first periods, or their breasts became noticeable. The rule for men was different because physical power and the ability of living an independent life had always been a mandatory requirement for men to have in life. So men waited much longer than women in terms of getting married. that is why girls as young as 9 or 10 were married to men as old as 30 or even older.
The main criticisms come from Islamic Hadiths that claim that Muhammed consumated his marriage with Aisha.
For example
Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64
The main criticisms come from Islamic Hadiths that claim that Muhammed consumated his marriage with Aisha.
For example
Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64
However once this Hadith is looked with the substitution of Arabic words then the meaning changes a great deal.
Then you have to ascertain does Nikah mean sexual relations between the husband and wife?
ZAWAJ.COM: Articles and Essays
It is then shown that consummation, at least in this context, does not have any sexual references. The word consummation was chosen because it is the formal fufilement of a document or contract. The only reason the sexual meaning is used frequently is the Christian cultural view that marriage is consummated when the grooms engage in sex for the first time. (Consummation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
Then the sexual meanings that you take from the misinterpreted Hadith are not applicable at all.
The standards of todays society cannot be applied 1400 years ago. It was the custom of the time to marry your children early before they succumbed to disease and death. For example the parents of Prophet Muhammad, himself, peace be upon him died natural deaths before he even knew them. His father, Abdallah bin Hashem, died while Amina bint Wahb (Amy in English as Mary for Mariam), Muhammad's mother was still pregnant with Muhammad. After she gave birth, she died when he was 2 years old (I believe). Muhammad was the only child of his parents.
Since it is the custom not just of Arabia, but the majority of societies past to marry children off at an early age. Are you asserting that every single on of these men was subconsciously a pedophile? If Prophet Muhammed did engage in such sick activities, God forbid, then why would have married Aisha? Wouldn't it be simpler to engage in such activities and leave her to cope? That is what the majority of Pedophiles do, they never invest the time, nourishment, and love the Prophet did on his beloved wife.
Finally the marriage was legal since the intention (niyat) of Prophet Muhammad was just and righteous. Here is a list of the benefits of the marriage for Islam and Muslim Society.
Bismillah
Submit
Continued
Aisha was essential to the furthering of Islamic knowledge and Jurisprudence. The Mother of all believes she is cherished as one of the most knowledgeable scholars of Islam and irrefutably her great understanding is due to the loving bond that Prophet Muhammad and Aisha shared.
It is easy to research the well meaning intentions and the many beneficial results of this marriage. It just requires objective research with you forgoing the biases you seem to have. I hope this helps and answers some of your questions.
http://www.beautifulislam.net/women/young_aishah.htm
Aisha was essential to the furthering of Islamic knowledge and Jurisprudence. The Mother of all believes she is cherished as one of the most knowledgeable scholars of Islam and irrefutably her great understanding is due to the loving bond that Prophet Muhammad and Aisha shared.
It is easy to research the well meaning intentions and the many beneficial results of this marriage. It just requires objective research with you forgoing the biases you seem to have. I hope this helps and answers some of your questions.
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Aquitaine
Well-Known Member
Abibi said:
I don't. It's just that since this thread is about Islam......
Also, again you say it was the practice of the time, but we're taling about God's right-hand man here, yet he still decides to submit to Cultural norms of the time.
Nonesense, you've gotta be kidding me?
It's child molestation, accept it.
The problem is, again that this is the example set by God's representative of Humanity, and present day Islam bases it's teachings off such things. As for Arabic girls maturing faster, and being considered "teenagers" at that age back then, I disagree - there is a Hadith reference that shows Aisha playing with her toys - do teenagers/fully matured Women play with toys? No, children do.
So? It doesn't change the fact that he married and slept with a child. Also, notice how many wives he had...... now how many are permitted per Male in Islam?
Again, you're blaming the actions of Allah's Apostle on the Cultural standards of the time - this is something I've been mentioning quite alot here.
There's only so much you can hide behind translations, it obivously tells of him having sex with her, and therefore consummating his marriage.
Oh here we go, another "Arabic has 10,000 different translations for each word" approach.
Yes but it's not that average people did it 1400 years ago, it's that the perfect mdel Human, and God's representative of the species did that 1400 years ago.
Again, you're blaming it all on the Cultural norms of the time.
Erm, he did engage in such sick activities; he married and slept with a child. As for why he married her, I don't know, maybe he wanted to add to his already excessive collection of wives, and wanted a young one for personal greed.
Bias? C'mon, I'm observing what I see in Islamic texts, he married what..... 11 Women, and married a child - no matter how hard you try to twist it, you cannot deny such things happened.
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