Why I think Donald Trump should not be impeached

[Shad]

Since you apparently missed it, it wasn't' "merely wanting...investigated." Trump is being accused of withholding aid to Ukraine unless they complied.

Like Biden?

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Here's why [Donald Trump should not be impeached]... Because Joe Biden is only a 'potential' nominee, and therefore is not an active political rival.

I have a better argument for why Trump SHOULD be impeached - the one House Speaker Newt Gingrich offered in the months leading up to the Clinton impeachment following the Kenneth Starr witch hunt in search of a crime that went from Whitewater to Travelgate to Paula Jones and eventually to Monica Lewinski, where they finally found something to bring articles of impeachment. When asked why impeach Bill Clinton, Gingrich answered "because we can"?

Why do the Democrats require any higher standard than that to impeach Trump?

 

[exchemist]

What do you suppose this means? :

“President Trump’s persistent and continuing effort to coerce a foreign country to help him cheat to win an election is a clear and present danger to our free and fair elections and to our national security,” said Dan Goldman, the director of investigations at the House Intelligence Committee."
Impeachment witness: Trump poses election 'danger'

I don't follow the twists and turns of US politics closely enough to comment.

What I can say, as an outsider, is that withholding military aid from a country under attack, until it opens a criminal investigation into a political opponent, is naked abuse of the power of a head of state.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Well, you might not have helped me directly, but at least you offered some advice... I guess you tried.

I gave you advice on how to find your mistake. Odds are that you will not learn if just given the answer. Since there were only two claims in your OP it should have been child's play to find your mistake.

 

[Salvador]

I don't follow the twists and turns of US politics closely enough to comment.

What I can say, as an outsider, is that withholding military aid from a country under attack, until it opens a criminal investigation into a political opponent, is naked abuse of the power of a head of state.

There had been Ukrainian meddling in the 2016 U.S. Presidential election,

Reference: Ukraine Court Rules Manafort Disclosure Caused ‘Meddling’ in U.S. Election

This reason alone is a valid enough reason for U.S. foreign aid to have been withheld.

 

[exchemist]

There had been Ukrainian meddling in the 2016 U.S. Presidential election,

Reference: Ukraine Court Rules Manafort Disclosure Caused ‘Meddling’ in U.S. Election

This reason alone is a valid enough reason for U.S. foreign aid to have been withheld.

Whether that is true or not, that is not the reason why it was withheld.

It was withheld to force Ukraine to open a criminal investigation into two specific, named, US citizens, one a political opponent and the other one of his sons.

 

[Salvador]

You are talking about some other reality, not the one that we live in.

A Ukrainian court had in fact ruled the Manafort Disclosure caused ‘meddling’ in U.S. Election.

Ukraine Court Rules Manafort Disclosure Caused ‘Meddling’ in U.S. Election

Burisma is in fact the Ukrainian company having indeed paid Joe Biden's son millions of dollars; the owner of this company, Mykola Zlochevsky, is in fact being investigated for allegedly embezzling state funds of Ukraine.

Ukraine widens probe against Burisma founder to embezzlement of state funds

 

[Salvador]

Whether that is true or not, that is not the reason why it was withheld.

It was withheld to force Ukraine to open a criminal investigation into two specific, named, US citizens, one a political opponent and the other one of his sons.

Without Ukraine having agreed upon an investigation of the Bidens, the aid ended up going to Ukraine in a timely manner.

 

[Salvador]

Whether that is true or not, that is not the reason why it was withheld.

It was withheld to force Ukraine to open a criminal investigation into two specific, named, US citizens, one a political opponent and the other one of his sons.

This U.S. citizen received millions of dollars from a company whose owner allegedly embezzled millions of dollars from Ukraine, which receives millions upon millions of dollars of U.S. foreign aid; any potential kick-back of U.S. foreign aid to the son of the then Vice President should be investigated.

 

[exchemist]

Without Ukraine having agreed upon an investigation of the Bidens, the aid ended up going to Ukraine in a timely manner.

Only after this scandal emerged and forced the issue.

 

[exchemist]

This U.S. citizen received millions of dollars from a company whose owner allegedly embezzled millions of dollars from Ukraine, which receives millions upon millions of dollars of U.S. foreign aid; any potential kick-back of U.S. foreign aid to the son of the then Vice President should be investigated.

Then the proper course of events is for Ukraine to be allowed to carry out its own investigation into the owner and, if indicated, the company and then, if indicated, the role of the various directors.

It is not to start the other way round by demanding a fishing expedition into your political opponent's affairs. And far worse is to actually coerce a country under attack, by threatening to withhold promised military aid until the justice process is going the way that suits you for personal political reasons.

 

[Salvador]

Then the proper course of events is for Ukraine to be allowed to carry out its own investigation into the owner and, if indicated, the company and then, if indicated, the role of the various directors.

It is not to start the other way round by demanding a fishing expedition into your political opponent's affairs. And far worse is to actually coerce a country under attack, by threatening to withhold promised military aid until the justice process is going the way that suits you for personal political reasons.

We perhaps can agree that suspected misallocation of U.S. foreign aid to Ukraine should be investigated by Ukraine as well as by the United States. ...

 

[LuisDantas]

A Ukrainian court had in fact ruled the Manafort Disclosure caused ‘meddling’ in U.S. Election.

Ukraine Court Rules Manafort Disclosure Caused ‘Meddling’ in U.S. Election

Burisma is in fact the Ukrainian company having indeed paid Joe Biden's son millions of dollars; the owner of this company, Mykola Zlochevsky, is in fact being investigated for allegedly embezzling state funds of Ukraine.

Ukraine widens probe against Burisma founder to embezzlement of state funds

Why are you disregarding Trump's own admissions?

 

[exchemist]

Without Ukraine having agreed upon an investigation of the Bidens, the aid ended up going to Ukraine in a timely manner.

.......as a result of this scandalous behaviour becoming public knowledge in the USA. Not before.

 

[exchemist]

We perhaps can agree that suspected misallocation of U.S. foreign aid to Ukraine should be investigated by Ukraine as well as by the United States. ...

That is up to Ukraine, if there has been such misallocation.

But the President of the USA threatened to withhold promised military aid, to a country under military attack by Russia, in order to coerce it into helping him get re-elected by mounting a criminal investigation specifically targeted at his political opponent.

 

[Salvador]

That is up to Ukraine, if there has been such misallocation.

But the President of the USA threatened to withhold promised military aid, to a country under military attack by Russia, in order to coerce it into helping him get re-elected by mounting a criminal investigation specifically targeted at his political opponent.

How U.S. foreign aid gets spent is our nation's business. The suspected kick-back of U.S. foreign aid to the family of a political U.S. Presidential contender in the 2020 U.S. Presidential election should be a concern of American voters.

 

[Cooky]

That is up to Ukraine, if there has been such misallocation.

But the President of the USA threatened to withhold promised military aid, to a country under military attack by Russia, in order to coerce it into helping him get re-elected by mounting a criminal investigation specifically targeted at his political opponent.

Biden is not a political opponent. He's just a potential candidate.

...Any Tom, Dick or Harry can say they're running for president.

 

[Salvador]

Why are you disregarding Trump's own admissions?

Trump has admitted no wrong doing. He hasn't even yet responded to his accusers, whom team Trump will hopefully get to address when the impeachment process goes to the U.S. Senate. Let's see what the Obama hand-shaker Never-Trumper alleged whistle blower Eric Ciaramella then has to say for himself.

 

[LuisDantas]

Trump has admitted no wrong doing. He hasn't even yet responded to his accusers, whom team Trump will hopefully get to address when the impeachment process goes to the U.S. Senate. Let's see what the Obama hand-shaker Never-Trumper alleged whistle blower Eric Ciaramella then has to say for himself.

Trump has indeed admitted to wrongdoings, even bragged about it outright, very often, including in front of microphones and cameras. Particularly in recent weeks.

His captive audience can't bring itself to care, and finds itself attempting to continuously redefine what should count as "wrong" (rather hypocritically at that, one must add), while his opponents can't expect much better. But he does admit it, even if he may well be beyond the ability to make moral or legal judgements.

TLDR - the guy is a weasel. A particularly reckless, careless and destructive weasel.

 

[exchemist]

How U.S. foreign aid gets spent is our nation's business. The suspected kick-back of U.S. foreign aid to the family of a political U.S. Presidential contender in the 2020 U.S. Presidential election should be a concern of American voters.

Possibly it should be "of concern to voters". If so, then a legitimate issue to be put in front of US voters when they are preparing to vote.

But that in no way justifies the coercion of a country under attack, by withholding promised military aid until a criminal investigation is launched against a political opponent.