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Why I left Baptist Christianity and ultimately Christianity itself

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
The development of my Agnostic-Theism is actually an interesting one because it was spurred on by the history of the Baptist church as practiced in many of the black communities across the United States. Unlike evangelical Christianity which is composed of majority white parishioners, Baptist Christianity appears to be antithetical on the surface. The churches are filled with old black women with big colorful hats which are reminiscent of our relationship with African ancestry. Not to mention the music tempo, as the pastor preaches the gospel and begins to elevate his voice, the music tempo also changes and elevates where the whole entire church breaks out in song. Many times as a child I considered church nothing more than a concert and many times I couldn't wait to leave and get Sunday food and watch movies.

Like evangelical Christianity, many black parishioners swear by the "blood of Jesus" that they are saved due to their acknowledgment that Jesus died on the cross and rose after three days to ascend to himself--this I still never understood nor is this thread about that particular Christian metaphysical phenomena. As I got older and studied more about religions themselves I began to have a more worldview about the historicity regarding various world religions. When it came to Christianity as it relates to African diaspora it became even more clear that many Africans and African-Americans have what I call a "hand me down" form of Christianity. Historically many Africans were animists and polytheists and some were Muslim and some were Christian. But looking back and reflecting the transatlantic slave trade which began on the western portion of Africa, many Africans did not have a Christian background. Many Africans actually practiced the religion of their forefathers.

Through forceful acclimation of the English language as well as the religion of their new "masters," Africans accepted their fate, and began practicing their form of Christianity in relationship to themselves. Jubilation is the baseline of all so-called "black churches." Singing and hollering and speaking in tongues in my view are acquired forms of hysteria. I tend to think these things as I've seen in the church are learned as some sort of congregational phenomena. I could be wrong though, maybe some of these people are experiencing the "holy spirit," but I tend to think the Holy Spirit does not make you do a crip walk (a dance performed by crip gang members) in the isles because you are in "the spirit."

I saw Baptist Christianity as nothing more than a religious substitute to mask the pain and anguish many older blacks in my community have experienced. To make African-Americans passive was seen as good because the slave should not think of their oppression as bad, but in their best interest and to adopt the religion of their oppressor is good because their previous faith and the performances of worship of that faith is barbarism and wrong--at least that is how it is historically presented. Sure, black churches are fun to attend because people are proactive in the sermons. People sing, dance, and shout in praise of God, not to mention the services are always late when it is time to go. But as the doors open and people leave the same people that shout the praises of God are the very ones that go back to sleeping with the pastor. This also includes stealing from others, lying on others, talking behind others' back and even sleeping with other married people.

Sure this is no different than any other community but when you observe the black church as I have, there appears to be a haven of hypocrisy just like its white evangelical counterpart. The "I'm saved and I'm a sinner" seems to be the go to phrase most if not all Christians tend to regurgitate. It is almost like a psychological reassurance to mitigate the gravity of the sin(s) they've committed. But despite all this, what really drew me away from the church and ultimately this religious community are those that are continuously judgmental. Black Baptist Christians are literalists and in the Bible (I forgot which chapter and verse) there is something somewhere that apparently states that believers in Christ are to judge others if they do not believe Jesus died and rose. Of course the go to verse many Christians use is the one that says "nobody can come to the father except through the son."

Like any conditional deity Jesus' love is masqueraded through the condition of believing in his existence, his death, and his resurrection and his deification. Unfortunately the fervor of the black church was so much that when I did have a crisis of faith instead of nourishing my need for intellectual growth and help create a relationship between my increasing secular attitude with my spiritual one, I was chastised and condemned as being of the devil. The whole "I'm going to pray for you" rather being something genuine, became an insult. I was told I was going to hell if I did not repent. The irony of it all is that going back to the oppressed loving his/her oppressor was ultimately the plan to quell a potential slave rebellion and it worked for generations. The passivity that has been imparted in the black community is one of the reasons why many African-Americans continue to struggle. But it is also one of the reasons why we idolize some African-Americans today a prime example is MLK.

We celebrate MLK not just because he is a prolific speaker but because he was seen as a passive entity who although marched for civil rights, he dared not "speak directly to the white man." This is why Malcolm X was out and MLK was in because he was seen as the "good negro" while Malcolm being outspoken on civil rights and systemic racism directly to the face of the oppressor, was seen as hostile and violent. But Malcolm X was no more violent than the very people he spoke out against. The example of king is what you see in many black Baptist churches today. Baptist Christianity thus became unappealing to me, a sort of cultural adaptation that shouldn't have been adopted. As a single man who couldn't find a nice girl to have companionship with I was told to seek them out in the church and not surprising they are the worse ones! Eventually I left and never looked back. My blackness is still there but the religiosity was not. But nonetheless there will be more black parishioners who still tithe and give their money to the likes of Creflo Dollar and other pimp pastors because as I've mentioned earlier the psychology of passivity as passed down from oppressor to oppressed is a generational phenomena that I chose to remove in the form of shackles.
 
Last edited:

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
What the above reminds me of is what Gandhi also complained about, namely those that came from some of the fundamentalist Protestant churches that taught "once saved, always saved" who then acted as if morals didn't really matter any more for them.
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
What the above reminds me of is what Gandhi also complained about, namely those that came from some of the fundamentalist Protestant churches that taught "once saved, always saved" who then acted as if morals didn't really matter any more for them.

Right. This was the bothersome philosophy I had a problem with in the church. For example if I have a basic conversation with a fundamentalist black Christian almost always he or she will say “are you saved?” So what becomes seemingly genuine becomes apparently arrogant.
 

tayla

My dog's name is Tayla
maybe some of these people are experiencing the "holy spirit," but I tend to think the Holy Spirit does not make you do a crip walk (a dance performed by crip gang members) in the isles because you are in "the spirit."
I think much of what is called the holy spirit in charismatic churches is actually man's spirit being amplified by the presence of a crowd.
 

tayla

My dog's name is Tayla
Jesus' love is masqueraded through the condition of believing in his existence, his death, and his resurrection and his deification.
Yes, I only slowly came to learn that some of the key the historical, archaeological, and scientific claims of Christianity are provably false. It unravels quickly after that which is why, I think, they wish to censor knowledge and rewrite history.
 

WalterTrull

Godfella
Hey Epic, I read that whole thing (unusual for me), because it was very, very interesting and touched a nerve (in more of us than want to admit it I'm sure). Thank you. :):)

I, by-the-way, am roughly the hue of Tom Sawyer's fence, - after.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
The development of my Agnostic-Theism is actually an interesting one because it was spurred on by the history of the Baptist church as practiced in many of the black communities across the United States. Unlike evangelical Christianity which is composed of majority white parishioners, Baptist Christianity appears to be antithetical on the surface. The churches are filled with old black women with big colorful hats which are reminiscent of our relationship with African ancestry. Not to mention the music tempo, as the pastor preaches the gospel and begins to elevate his voice, the music tempo also changes and elevates where the whole entire church breaks out in song. Many times as a child I considered church nothing more than a concert and many times I couldn't wait to leave and get Sunday food and watch movies.

Like evangelical Christianity, many black parishioners swear by the "blood of Jesus" that they are saved due to their acknowledgment that Jesus died on the cross and rose after three days to ascend to himself--this I still never understood nor is this thread about that particular Christian metaphysical phenomena. As I got older and studied more about religions themselves I began to have a more worldview about the historicity regarding various world religions. When it came to Christianity as it relates to African diaspora it became even more clear that many Africans and African-Americans have what I call a "hand me down" form of Christianity. Historically many Africans were animists and polytheists and some were Muslim and some were Christian. But looking back and reflecting the transatlantic slave trade which began on the western portion of Africa, many Africans did not have a Christian background. Many Africans actually practiced the religion of their forefathers.

Through forceful acclimation of the English language as well as the religion of their new "masters," Africans accepted their fate, and began practicing their form of Christianity in relationship to themselves. Jubilation is the baseline of all so-called "black churches." Singing and hollering and speaking in tongues in my view are acquired forms of hysteria. I tend to think these things as I've seen in the church are learned as some sort of congregational phenomena. I could be wrong though, maybe some of these people are experiencing the "holy spirit," but I tend to think the Holy Spirit does not make you do a crip walk (a dance performed by crip gang members) in the isles because you are in "the spirit."

I saw Baptist Christianity as nothing more than a religious substitute to mask the pain and anguish many older blacks in my community have experienced. To make African-Americans passive was seen as good because the slave should not think of their oppression as bad, but in their best interest and to adopt the religion of their oppressor is good because their previous faith and the performances of worship of that faith is barbarism and wrong--at least that is how it is historically presented. Sure, black churches are fun to attend because people are proactive in the sermons. People sing, dance, and shout in praise of God, not to mention the services are always late when it is time to go. But as the doors open and people leave the same people that shout the praises of God are the very ones that go back to sleeping with the pastor. This also includes stealing from others, lying on others, talking behind others' back and even sleeping with other married people.

Sure this is no different than any other community but when you observe the black church as I have, there appears to be a haven of hypocrisy just like its white evangelical counterpart. The "I'm saved and I'm a sinner" seems to be the go to phrase most if not all Christians tend to regurgitate. It is almost like a psychological reassurance to mitigate the gravity of the sin(s) they've committed. But despite all this, what really drew me away from the church and ultimately this religious community are those that are continuously judgmental. Black Baptist Christians are literalists and in the Bible (I forgot which chapter and verse) there is something somewhere that apparently states that believers in Christ are to judge others if they do not believe Jesus died and rose. Of course the go to verse many Christians use is the one that says "nobody can come to the father except through the son."

Like any conditional deity Jesus' love is masqueraded through the condition of believing in his existence, his death, and his resurrection and his deification. Unfortunately the fervor of the black church was so much that when I did have a crisis of faith instead of nourishing my need for intellectual growth and help create a relationship between my increasing secular attitude with my spiritual one, I was chastised and condemned as being of the devil. The whole "I'm going to pray for you" rather being something genuine, became an insult. I was told I was going to hell if I did not repent. The irony of it all is that going back to the oppressed loving his/her oppressor was ultimately the plan to quell a potential slave rebellion and it worked for generations. The passivity that has been imparted in the black community is one of the reasons why many African-Americans continue to struggle. But it is also one of the reasons why we idolize some African-Americans today a prime example is MLK.

We celebrate MLK not just because he is a prolific speaker but because he was seen as a passive entity who although marched for civil rights, he dared not "speak directly to the white man." This is why Malcolm X was out and MLK was in because he was seen as the "good negro" while Malcolm being outspoken on civil rights and systemic racism directly to the face of the oppressor, was seen as hostile and violent. But Malcolm X was no more violent than the very people he spoke out against. The example of king is what you see in many black Baptist churches today. Baptist Christianity thus became unappealing to me, a sort of cultural adaptation that shouldn't have been adopted. As a single man who couldn't find a nice girl to have companionship with I was told to seek them out in the church and not surprising they are the worse ones! Eventually I left and never looked back. My blackness is still there but the religiosity was not. But nonetheless there will be more black parishioners who still tithe and give their money to the likes of Creflo Dollar and other pimp pastors because as I've mentioned earlier the psychology of passivity as passed down from oppressor to oppressed is a generational phenomena that I chose to remove in the form of shackles.

I also faced similar crises when I began to question some of the basic tenets of Christianity, particularly when it came to things like the "Blood of Christ" and some of the more ritualistic aspects. And then I hear things like "all that matters is what's inside your heart," but if that's all that matters, then why does religion want to fill everyone's heads with a lot of rules and religious dogma?

I can get some of the basic rules: Don't lie, don't steal, don't murder, don't commit adultery, etc. Treat others as you would have them treat you. I can get all that, and if that's what religion wants people to do, then it would really be so much easier and simpler to follow.

I've also heard people say things like "I'm going to pray for you," but where's the logic in that? I didn't really feel insulted by it, though. Proselytizers try to justify themselves by saying, "If you knew there was a burning building, wouldn't you try to rush in and tell everyone about it?" If they truly believe that they're saving souls from a fiery afterlife, then a few insults may be a small price to pay. At least, that may be how they see it.
 

David T

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
The development of my Agnostic-Theism is actually an interesting one because it was spurred on by the history of the Baptist church as practiced in many of the black communities across the United States. Unlike evangelical Christianity which is composed of majority white parishioners, Baptist Christianity appears to be antithetical on the surface. The churches are filled with old black women with big colorful hats which are reminiscent of our relationship with African ancestry. Not to mention the music tempo, as the pastor preaches the gospel and begins to elevate his voice, the music tempo also changes and elevates where the whole entire church breaks out in song. Many times as a child I considered church nothing more than a concert and many times I couldn't wait to leave and get Sunday food and watch movies.

Like evangelical Christianity, many black parishioners swear by the "blood of Jesus" that they are saved due to their acknowledgment that Jesus died on the cross and rose after three days to ascend to himself--this I still never understood nor is this thread about that particular Christian metaphysical phenomena. As I got older and studied more about religions themselves I began to have a more worldview about the historicity regarding various world religions. When it came to Christianity as it relates to African diaspora it became even more clear that many Africans and African-Americans have what I call a "hand me down" form of Christianity. Historically many Africans were animists and polytheists and some were Muslim and some were Christian. But looking back and reflecting the transatlantic slave trade which began on the western portion of Africa, many Africans did not have a Christian background. Many Africans actually practiced the religion of their forefathers.

Through forceful acclimation of the English language as well as the religion of their new "masters," Africans accepted their fate, and began practicing their form of Christianity in relationship to themselves. Jubilation is the baseline of all so-called "black churches." Singing and hollering and speaking in tongues in my view are acquired forms of hysteria. I tend to think these things as I've seen in the church are learned as some sort of congregational phenomena. I could be wrong though, maybe some of these people are experiencing the "holy spirit," but I tend to think the Holy Spirit does not make you do a crip walk (a dance performed by crip gang members) in the isles because you are in "the spirit."

I saw Baptist Christianity as nothing more than a religious substitute to mask the pain and anguish many older blacks in my community have experienced. To make African-Americans passive was seen as good because the slave should not think of their oppression as bad, but in their best interest and to adopt the religion of their oppressor is good because their previous faith and the performances of worship of that faith is barbarism and wrong--at least that is how it is historically presented. Sure, black churches are fun to attend because people are proactive in the sermons. People sing, dance, and shout in praise of God, not to mention the services are always late when it is time to go. But as the doors open and people leave the same people that shout the praises of God are the very ones that go back to sleeping with the pastor. This also includes stealing from others, lying on others, talking behind others' back and even sleeping with other married people.

Sure this is no different than any other community but when you observe the black church as I have, there appears to be a haven of hypocrisy just like its white evangelical counterpart. The "I'm saved and I'm a sinner" seems to be the go to phrase most if not all Christians tend to regurgitate. It is almost like a psychological reassurance to mitigate the gravity of the sin(s) they've committed. But despite all this, what really drew me away from the church and ultimately this religious community are those that are continuously judgmental. Black Baptist Christians are literalists and in the Bible (I forgot which chapter and verse) there is something somewhere that apparently states that believers in Christ are to judge others if they do not believe Jesus died and rose. Of course the go to verse many Christians use is the one that says "nobody can come to the father except through the son."

Like any conditional deity Jesus' love is masqueraded through the condition of believing in his existence, his death, and his resurrection and his deification. Unfortunately the fervor of the black church was so much that when I did have a crisis of faith instead of nourishing my need for intellectual growth and help create a relationship between my increasing secular attitude with my spiritual one, I was chastised and condemned as being of the devil. The whole "I'm going to pray for you" rather being something genuine, became an insult. I was told I was going to hell if I did not repent. The irony of it all is that going back to the oppressed loving his/her oppressor was ultimately the plan to quell a potential slave rebellion and it worked for generations. The passivity that has been imparted in the black community is one of the reasons why many African-Americans continue to struggle. But it is also one of the reasons why we idolize some African-Americans today a prime example is MLK.

We celebrate MLK not just because he is a prolific speaker but because he was seen as a passive entity who although marched for civil rights, he dared not "speak directly to the white man." This is why Malcolm X was out and MLK was in because he was seen as the "good negro" while Malcolm being outspoken on civil rights and systemic racism directly to the face of the oppressor, was seen as hostile and violent. But Malcolm X was no more violent than the very people he spoke out against. The example of king is what you see in many black Baptist churches today. Baptist Christianity thus became unappealing to me, a sort of cultural adaptation that shouldn't have been adopted. As a single man who couldn't find a nice girl to have companionship with I was told to seek them out in the church and not surprising they are the worse ones! Eventually I left and never looked back. My blackness is still there but the religiosity was not. But nonetheless there will be more black parishioners who still tithe and give their money to the likes of Creflo Dollar and other pimp pastors because as I've mentioned earlier the psychology of passivity as passed down from oppressor to oppressed is a generational phenomena that I chose to remove in the form of shackles.
I wrote but I deleted. It's very difficult in this medium to write any response actually. I enjoyed what you wrote, thought it was well thought out and incredibly personal. Personally I say beer and music are always in order in serious conversation.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
The development of my Agnostic-Theism is actually an interesting one because it was spurred on by the history of the Baptist church as practiced in many of the black communities across the United States. Unlike evangelical Christianity which is composed of majority white parishioners, Baptist Christianity appears to be antithetical on the surface. The churches are filled with old black women with big colorful hats which are reminiscent of our relationship with African ancestry. Not to mention the music tempo, as the pastor preaches the gospel and begins to elevate his voice, the music tempo also changes and elevates where the whole entire church breaks out in song. Many times as a child I considered church nothing more than a concert and many times I couldn't wait to leave and get Sunday food and watch movies.

Like evangelical Christianity, many black parishioners swear by the "blood of Jesus" that they are saved due to their acknowledgment that Jesus died on the cross and rose after three days to ascend to himself--this I still never understood nor is this thread about that particular Christian metaphysical phenomena. As I got older and studied more about religions themselves I began to have a more worldview about the historicity regarding various world religions. When it came to Christianity as it relates to African diaspora it became even more clear that many Africans and African-Americans have what I call a "hand me down" form of Christianity. Historically many Africans were animists and polytheists and some were Muslim and some were Christian. But looking back and reflecting the transatlantic slave trade which began on the western portion of Africa, many Africans did not have a Christian background. Many Africans actually practiced the religion of their forefathers.

Through forceful acclimation of the English language as well as the religion of their new "masters," Africans accepted their fate, and began practicing their form of Christianity in relationship to themselves. Jubilation is the baseline of all so-called "black churches." Singing and hollering and speaking in tongues in my view are acquired forms of hysteria. I tend to think these things as I've seen in the church are learned as some sort of congregational phenomena. I could be wrong though, maybe some of these people are experiencing the "holy spirit," but I tend to think the Holy Spirit does not make you do a crip walk (a dance performed by crip gang members) in the isles because you are in "the spirit."

I saw Baptist Christianity as nothing more than a religious substitute to mask the pain and anguish many older blacks in my community have experienced. To make African-Americans passive was seen as good because the slave should not think of their oppression as bad, but in their best interest and to adopt the religion of their oppressor is good because their previous faith and the performances of worship of that faith is barbarism and wrong--at least that is how it is historically presented. Sure, black churches are fun to attend because people are proactive in the sermons. People sing, dance, and shout in praise of God, not to mention the services are always late when it is time to go. But as the doors open and people leave the same people that shout the praises of God are the very ones that go back to sleeping with the pastor. This also includes stealing from others, lying on others, talking behind others' back and even sleeping with other married people.

Sure this is no different than any other community but when you observe the black church as I have, there appears to be a haven of hypocrisy just like its white evangelical counterpart. The "I'm saved and I'm a sinner" seems to be the go to phrase most if not all Christians tend to regurgitate. It is almost like a psychological reassurance to mitigate the gravity of the sin(s) they've committed. But despite all this, what really drew me away from the church and ultimately this religious community are those that are continuously judgmental. Black Baptist Christians are literalists and in the Bible (I forgot which chapter and verse) there is something somewhere that apparently states that believers in Christ are to judge others if they do not believe Jesus died and rose. Of course the go to verse many Christians use is the one that says "nobody can come to the father except through the son."

Like any conditional deity Jesus' love is masqueraded through the condition of believing in his existence, his death, and his resurrection and his deification. Unfortunately the fervor of the black church was so much that when I did have a crisis of faith instead of nourishing my need for intellectual growth and help create a relationship between my increasing secular attitude with my spiritual one, I was chastised and condemned as being of the devil. The whole "I'm going to pray for you" rather being something genuine, became an insult. I was told I was going to hell if I did not repent. The irony of it all is that going back to the oppressed loving his/her oppressor was ultimately the plan to quell a potential slave rebellion and it worked for generations. The passivity that has been imparted in the black community is one of the reasons why many African-Americans continue to struggle. But it is also one of the reasons why we idolize some African-Americans today a prime example is MLK.

We celebrate MLK not just because he is a prolific speaker but because he was seen as a passive entity who although marched for civil rights, he dared not "speak directly to the white man." This is why Malcolm X was out and MLK was in because he was seen as the "good negro" while Malcolm being outspoken on civil rights and systemic racism directly to the face of the oppressor, was seen as hostile and violent. But Malcolm X was no more violent than the very people he spoke out against. The example of king is what you see in many black Baptist churches today. Baptist Christianity thus became unappealing to me, a sort of cultural adaptation that shouldn't have been adopted. As a single man who couldn't find a nice girl to have companionship with I was told to seek them out in the church and not surprising they are the worse ones! Eventually I left and never looked back. My blackness is still there but the religiosity was not. But nonetheless there will be more black parishioners who still tithe and give their money to the likes of Creflo Dollar and other pimp pastors because as I've mentioned earlier the psychology of passivity as passed down from oppressor to oppressed is a generational phenomena that I chose to remove in the form of shackles.
Nice to know excellent post. I feel for you. White cultural imposition has affected us Indians too, though to a lesser extent than African Americans obviously.

I am curious to know why you feel attracted to Islam though. Isn't it too is an imposition? Aren't Islamic empires too have a long history of black slavery? Does not Islam too have similar kind of monotheistic judgmental exclusivity in many instances? Why not go to Epicureanism, Yoruba or Eastern faiths?
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
I also faced similar crises when I began to question some of the basic tenets of Christianity, particularly when it came to things like the "Blood of Christ" and some of the more ritualistic aspects. And then I hear things like "all that matters is what's inside your heart," but if that's all that matters, then why does religion want to fill everyone's heads with a lot of rules and religious dogma?

I can get some of the basic rules: Don't lie, don't steal, don't murder, don't commit adultery, etc. Treat others as you would have them treat you. I can get all that, and if that's what religion wants people to do, then it would really be so much easier and simpler to follow.

I've also heard people say things like "I'm going to pray for you," but where's the logic in that? I didn't really feel insulted by it, though. Proselytizers try to justify themselves by saying, "If you knew there was a burning building, wouldn't you try to rush in and tell everyone about it?" If they truly believe that they're saving souls from a fiery afterlife, then a few insults may be a small price to pay. At least, that may be how they see it.


I guess I felt insulted by that phrase because it’s repetitiveness seemed disingenuous and indirectly insulting. It almost feels a stigma
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
I wrote but I deleted. It's very difficult in this medium to write any response actually. I enjoyed what you wrote, thought it was well thought out and incredibly personal. Personally I say beer and music are always in order in serious conversation.

I concur
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I guess I felt insulted by that phrase because it’s repetitiveness seemed disingenuous and indirectly insulting. It almost feels a stigma

Yes, some people can say it that way and even mean it that way. I agree that it can come across as condescending and arrogant, as if they've already passed judgment on someone and consider them unworthy. As if they know the truth and have a personal line to God in that they can presume to pray for someone they have deemed "wretched."

On the other hand, if they really do believe that, and have no conscious intention of harming me, then I generally take it at face value. Sometimes, what they do seems akin to giving Confederate money to a homeless beggar. They might think they're doing something decent, but it's essentially worthless.
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
Nice to know excellent post. I feel for you. White cultural imposition has affected us Indians too, though to a lesser extent than African Americans obviously.

I am curious to know why you feel attracted to Islam though. Isn't it too is an imposition? Aren't Islamic empires too have a long history of black slavery? Does not Islam too have similar kind of monotheistic judgmental exclusivity in many instances? Why not go to Epicureanism, Yoruba or Eastern faiths?

From a philosophical aspect and due to my courses of study of philosophy from undergraduate school Islamic being younger and slightly more progressive that its aforementioned counterparts of Christianity and Judaism I think its theories concerning cosmology and Tawhid (Oneness) really crystallized progressive monotheism.

To answer your question on whether Islamic empires have had a hand in slavery yes they have. But due to the nature and one-sidedness of the forums here I refrain from going all in on Islam here at least and any critique is more on a theological base not necessarily historical. But I do not blame the religions themselves I blame the people who have manipulated doctrine to justify the ills of what they do.

To furthermore answer your question "why not Yoruba, Epicureanism, or Eastern Faiths?"

Well monotheism due to my history of Christianity has kept me with a monotheistic mentality. My background I admit consequently made me a monotheist despite my agnosticism hence me maintaining my belief in God. I'm still rather unsure whether God is accurately described by human qualities via doctrine.

I believe God exists. I believe there is a phenomenal deity perhaps not concerned with human affairs given our biological makeup. I believe God is one, and believe that all of life from bacterial to viral to us, proceed from divine providence. We all have a hand in life but I'm still unsure. That doesn't mean the other faiths are wrong. Hinduism could be objectively right. I just go for what I believe.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
From a philosophical aspect and due to my courses of study of philosophy from undergraduate school Islamic being younger and slightly more progressive that its aforementioned counterparts of Christianity and Judaism I think its theories concerning cosmology and Tawhid (Oneness) really crystallized progressive monotheism.

To answer your question on whether Islamic empires have had a hand in slavery yes they have. But due to the nature and one-sidedness of the forums here I refrain from going all in on Islam here at least and any critique is more on a theological base not necessarily historical. But I do not blame the religions themselves I blame the people who have manipulated doctrine to justify the ills of what they do.

To furthermore answer your question "why not Yoruba, Epicureanism, or Eastern Faiths?"

Well monotheism due to my history of Christianity has kept me with a monotheistic mentality. My background I admit consequently made me a monotheist despite my agnosticism hence me maintaining my belief in God. I'm still rather unsure whether God is accurately described by human qualities via doctrine.

I believe God exists. I believe there is a phenomenal deity perhaps not concerned with human affairs given our biological makeup. I believe God is one, and believe that all of life from bacterial to viral to us, proceed from divine providence. We all have a hand in life but I'm still unsure. That doesn't mean the other faiths are wrong. Hinduism could be objectively right. I just go for what I believe.
Isn't modern liberal strands of Judaism more progressive than any in Islam? Judaism is Tawhid too.
Though I would welcome if a progressive strand of Islam begins to flourish. Current atmosphere is against this from happening though.

The best monotheism I have come across is Sikhism. Its something you should take a look at.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
What the above reminds me of is what Gandhi also complained about, namely those that came from some of the fundamentalist Protestant churches that taught "once saved, always saved" who then acted as if morals didn't really matter any more for them.

Exactly. They'll use their religion as a means by which to judge and condemn others, but when confronted with their own hypocrisies and general failure to practice what they preach, they pull the "I'm not perfect, just forgiven" card.
 
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