Why I find Christianity dangerous to the human mind

[1137]

Based on what I have seen and have experienced, Christianity's main goal is to wound their followers, then blame them for limping, and then offer an option of forgiveness for their weakness.

I would like to start with a quick look into Genesis and original sin. God created all the cosmos, the apple, the nature of Adam and Eve, even the serpent in the garden. He could have done anything to help stop the fall of man but chose not to. Then he decided to hold this against us in order to threaten us with eternal darkness. This is like the police charging targets of a serial killer for protection because it is the potential victim's fault.

Even if we look past original sin, Christianity relies on the idea that humanity is sinful and degraded, that God should not even love us but does anyways, and that human beings cannot stand on their own. There are supernatural forces out there we need defense from, not to mention sin that needs to be forgiven, and weak human beings cannot accomplish anything without God.

I had a friend who used to speak all the time about how he was a disgusting and unloveable abomination, that we all were, and that there was no reason for even God to love us. We are like weak and blind children who need a helping hand around every corner, yada yada yada. It was two years before I realized he was a pastor and didn't have clinical depression! It has been discussed here before about the psychological harm caused by Christianity, and I certainly think there is a lot to it. If a regular parent taught their kid that they are inherently evil and don't deserve love, child protective services would take the child away. Yet when it comes to the parent / child relationship of Christianity teaching otherwise is the wrong thing to do.

 

[Thana]

Based on what I have seen and have experienced, Christianity's main goal is to wound their followers, then blame them for limping, and then offer an option of forgiveness for their weakness.

I'm glad you started this off by letting everyone know that this is all just anecdotal

I would like to start with a quick look into Genesis and original sin. God created all the cosmos, the apple, the nature of Adam and Eve, even the serpent in the garden. He could have done anything to help stop the fall of man but chose not to. Then he decided to hold this against us in order to threaten us with eternal darkness. This is like the police charging targets of a serial killer for protection because it is the potential victim's fault.

He could have done anything, By defintion of Him being omnipotent and omniscient.
He could have never made us in the first place, Or made us completely without free will. But He gave us choice, And that is why right now you're capable of blaming Him for it.

Even if we look past original sin, Christianity relies on the idea that humanity is sinful and degraded, that God should not even love us but does anyways, and that human beings cannot stand on their own. There are supernatural forces out there we need defense from, not to mention sin that needs to be forgiven, and weak human beings cannot accomplish anything without God.

We are weak, Are we not? Can you heal the sick, raise the dead? Give us an afterlife or none at all?
Can you forgive everyone or love everyone or never hurt anyone? Can you resist all your fleshly desires or not?
Every time you were tempted to do something you knew was wrong, Were you able to resist, Every single time?

I had a friend who used to speak all the time about how he was a disgusting and unloveable abomination, that we all were, and that there was no reason for even God to love us. We are like weak and blind children who need a helping hand around every corner, yada yada yada. It was two years before I realized he was a pastor and didn't have clinical depression! It has been discussed here before about the psychological harm caused by Christianity, and I certainly think there is a lot to it. If a regular parent taught their kid that they are inherently evil and don't deserve love, child protective services would take the child away. Yet when it comes to the parent / child relationship of Christianity teaching otherwise is the wrong thing to do.

Yada yada yada? Are you even taking this seriously or is this issue just a cover for you to mock and condescend?

 

[dgirl1986]

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[1137]

I'm glad you started this off by letting everyone know that this is all just anecdotal

Well yeah, we're talking about the way I see things.

He could have done anything, By defintion of Him being omnipotent and omniscient.

Yeah, but what he actually chose to do was set us up to fall and then cashed in on that fall by promising salvation.

He could have never made us in the first place, Or made us completely without free will. But He gave us choice, And that is why right now you're capable of blaming Him for it.

I'm not interested in what he could have done, I'm interested in what he did. Sure I have choice to blame god, but what is choice without knowledge? He may have given is free will but not the ability to be rational, which came from the tree of knowledge.

We are weak, Are we not? Can you heal the sick, raise the dead? Give us an afterlife or none at all?

We certainly can heal the sick, but nobody can or has raised the dead. An afterlife either objectively exists or does not, this isn't something any human could do and it in no way makes us weak.

Can you forgive everyone or love everyone or never hurt anyone? Can you resist all your fleshly desires or not?

Me? No, that's true sinning against nature. But people, as in human beings, do and have for centuries. Some who dont even have Jesus!

Every time you were tempted to do something you knew was wrong, Were you able to resist, Every single time?

Of course not, that does not make one weak, simply not all powerful.

Yada yada yada? Are you even taking this seriously or is this issue just a cover for you to mock and condescend?

I take teaching children they are weak and disgusting, aka child abuse, very seriously.

 

[Sunstone]

He could have done anything, By defintion of Him being omnipotent and omniscient.
He could have never made us in the first place, Or made us completely without free will. But He gave us choice, And that is why right now you're capable of blaming Him for it.

Your argument is indistinguishable from this one: "He was so powerful he could have done anything but he chose to do the one thing that is most heinous by doing precisely that which allowed him to justify to himself eternally torturing the majority of us."

 

[Thana]

Well yeah, we're talking about the way I see things.
Yeah, but what he actually chose to do was set us up to fall and then cashed in on that fall by promising salvation.
I'm not interested in what he could have done, I'm interested in what he did. Sure I have choice to blame god, but what is choice without knowledge? He may have given is free will but not the ability to be rational, which came from the tree of knowledge.
We certainly can heal the sick, but nobody can or has raised the dead. An afterlife either objectively exists or does not, this isn't something any human could do and it in no way makes us weak.
Me? No, that's true sinning against nature. But people, as in human beings, do and have for centuries. Some who dont even have Jesus!
Of course not, that does not make one weak, simply not all powerful.
I take teaching children they are weak and disgusting, aka child abuse, very seriously.

It is not a Christian practice to teach your child anything about god other than He loves and you and to show them cute cartoon movies about noah's ark and let them colour in a picture of Jesus walking a donkey. No one tells their kids that they're weak and disgusting except bad parents.

You're really just making stuff up. I mean, I'm kinda gob-smacked at the audactity but I guess some people really just don't have a good sense of self-awareness.

 

[Bunyip]

It is not a Christian practice to teach your child anything about god other than He loves and you and to show them cute cartoon movies about noah's ark and let them colour in a picture of Jesus walking a donkey. No one tells their kids that they're weak and disgusting except bad parents.

You're really just making stuff up. I mean, I'm kinda gob-smacked at the audactity but I guess some people really just don't have a good sense of self-awareness.

I was raised a Catholic and we are most certainly taught as children that we are fundamentally sinners, we are corrupt and deserve to be tormented in hell for eternity but for the sacrifice of Jesus. We were taught that humanity was a fallen race, that death began with the expulsion of Adam and Eve and that without Jesus we were doomed.

I was also taught in Sunday school that the earthquakes in Italy at the time were a consequence of the Italians legalising abortion.

 

[Sunstone]

I was raised a Catholic and we are most certainly taught as children that we are fundamentally sinners, we are corrupt and deserve to be tormented in hell for eternity but for the sacrifice of Jesus. We were taught that humanity was a fallen race, that death began with the expulsion of Adam and Eve and that without Jesus we were doomed.

I was also taught in Sunday school that the earthquakes in Italy at the time were a consequence of the Italians legalising abortion.

Your honesty is appreciated and contrasts sharply with the deceit of habitual liars.

 

[Bunyip]

Your honesty is appreciated and contrasts sharply with the deceit of habitual liars.

When i was a kid in England the Catholic-Protestant conflict was very real and very close to home. The question of whether or not Christianity was dangerous to the mind seemed a moot point when IRA bomb scares were a regular event. I remember having to evacuate the school in my underpants and stand in the snow because the school had recieced an IRA threat. So for anyone doubting whether or not Christianity is dangerous to the mind - read up on the IRA.

 

[Thana]

I was raised a Catholic and we are most certainly taught as children that we are fundamentally sinners, we are corrupt and deserve to be tormented in hell for eternity but for the sacrifice of Jesus. We were taught that humanity was a fallen race, that death began with the expulsion of Adam and Eve and that without Jesus we were doomed.

I was also taught in Sunday school that the earthquakes in Italy at the time were a consequence of the Italians legalising abortion.

I once had Sushi at a Sushi restaurant and got really sick from it. Does that now mean all Sushi is inherently bad for everyone and makes everyone sick?
I'm just curious since apparently we're all generalizing here and using anecdotes as evidence.

I mean heck, Maybe we should start talking about how all Muslims are evil and Islam is a cancer because there's been like, so many bad Muslims in the media lately.
I mean why not since we're clearly all just disregarding any reason or rationality.

 

[Kolibri]

Myth

He may have given is free will but not the ability to be rational, which came from the tree of knowledge.

Fact.
Jesus was a perfect man and did not eat of the tree. And yet Jesus was quite rational and knew the difference between right and wrong.
This tree was merely a symbol of God's final authority.
It was merely a tree among thousands, easy to avoid till the serpent lied and encouraged Eve to keep thinking about it till greed set in enough to act on it.

 

[Bunyip]

I once had Sushi at a Sushi restaurant and got really sick from it. Does that now mean all Sushi is inherently bad for everyone and makes everyone sick?

No, but that is a very different situation.

I'm just curious since apparently we're all generalizing here and using anecdotes as evidence.

I mean heck, Maybe we should start talking about how all Muslims are evil and Islam is a cancer because there's been like, so many bad Muslims in the media lately.
I mean why not since we're clearly all just disregarding any reason or rationality.

I think you have run off the track a fair bit there. What I said remains true and is taught to most Catholic kids.

I do not think that Muslims or Christians are evil, that was an unfortunate projection on your part. FYI I think most people are lovely. Nor was I generalising - I just gave a breif account of my own experience.

 

[Thana]

No, but that is a very different situation. I think you have run off the track a fair bit there. What I said remains true and is taught to most Catholic kids.

And thank you for proving my point.

It must be true because you said so.

 

[Bunyip]

And thank you for proving my point.

It must be true because you said so.

I was only recounting my personal view and experience - I was not dictating a truth to all. I said it was true in that it is an accurate account of my personal experience. Sorry if you saw it another way.Is there a specific element of what I said I was taught that you are taking issue with?

 

[Looncall]

Myth


Fact.
Jesus was a perfect man and did not eat of the tree. And yet Jesus was quite rational and knew the difference between right and wrong.
This tree was merely a symbol of God's final authority.
It was merely a tree among thousands, easy to avoid till the serpent lied and encouraged Eve to keep thinking about it till greed set in enough to act on it.

I find it hilarious that you lot are agonizing over things that clearly never happened. Adam and Eve? Really? Please tell me you're kidding!

The fact that anyone takes this stuff seriously in this day and age demonstrates the disastrous effects of religion on the human intellect.

 

[Kolibri]

The OP reminds me of 2 Peter 2:1-3

I think the observations of the OP are quite valid.
This passage plus centuries of time to cloud the origins of what is called Christian today has soured people to all Christianity.

"However, there also came to be false prophets among the people, (the Jews) as there will also be false teachers among you. (the Christians) These will quietly bring in destructive sects, and they will even disown the owner who bought them, bringing speedy destruction upon themselves. Furthermore, many will follow their brazen conduct, (or "their acts of shameless conduct.") and because of them the way of truth will be spoken of abusively. Also, they will greedily exploit you with counterfeit words. But their judgement, decided long ago, is not moving slowly, and their destruction is not sleeping." - 2 Peter 2:1-3

 

[1137]

It is not a Christian practice to teach your child anything about god other than He loves and you and to show them cute cartoon movies about noah's ark and let them colour in a picture of Jesus walking a donkey. No one tells their kids that they're weak and disgusting except bad parents.

You're really just making stuff up. I mean, I'm kinda gob-smacked at the audactity but I guess some people really just don't have a good sense of self-awareness.

Perhaps that is what your experience was, but not everyone seems to be so lucky. The religion inherently teaches that mankind is sinful, something you were already arguing in favor of before. This is psychologically detrimental. To teach children a view of life in which they are inherently evil and unlovable is unnacceptable.

I once had Sushi at a Sushi restaurant and got really sick from it. Does that now mean all Sushi is inherently bad for everyone and makes everyone sick?
I'm just curious since apparently we're all generalizing here and using anecdotes as evidence.

Nope. But if the majority of people going to a certain sushi restaurant were all getting sick it would suggest that the resauraunt is selling bad sushi.

I mean heck, Maybe we should start talking about how all Muslims are evil and Islam is a cancer because there's been like, so many bad Muslims in the media lately.
I mean why not since we're clearly all just disregarding any reason or rationality.

Talking to you is just a total waste of time, isn't it.

I find it hilarious that you lot are agonizing over things that clearly never happened. Adam and Eve? Really? Please tell me you're kidding!

The fact that anyone takes this stuff seriously in this day and age demonstrates the disastrous effects of religion on the human intellect.

You may find it hilarious, but there is nothing laughable in people so anti-religion to the point of being religious themselves ignore the psychological impact of beliefs, myths, and symbols, and the impact of those psychological effects on the world.

 

[Sunstone]

The OP reminds me of 2 Peter 2:1-3

I think the observations of the OP are quite valid.
This passage plus centuries of time to cloud the origins of what is called Christian today has soured people to all Christianity.

"However, there also came to be false prophets among the people, (the Jews) as there will also be false teachers among you. (the Christians) These will quietly bring in destructive sects, and they will even disown the owner who bought them, bringing speedy destruction upon themselves. Furthermore, many will follow their brazen conduct, (or "their acts of shameless conduct.") and because of them the way of truth will be spoken of abusively. Also, they will greedily exploit you with counterfeit words. But their judgement, decided long ago, is not moving slowly, and their destruction is not sleeping." - 2 Peter 2:1-3

Actually, I think history shows that deity doesn't give a rat's butt whether or not someone's doctrines are true. The sun shines on both the true and the false. So this talk of speedy retribution for being wrong sounds just as wrong as so many other doctrines.

 

[Thana]

I was only recounting my personal view and experience - I was not dictating a truth to all. I said it was true in that it is an accurate account of my personal experience. Sorry if you saw it another way.Is there a specific element of what I said I was taught that you are taking issue with?

You literally just said it's true for most Catholics. You didn't even have the decency to say some Catholics, No you had to say most.
I mean come on mate, Let's not play games here.

 

[Thana]

Perhaps that is what your experience was, but not everyone seems to be so lucky. The religion inherently teaches that mankind is sinful, something you were already arguing in favor of before. This is psychologically detrimental. To teach children a view of life in which they are inherently evil and unlovable is unnacceptable.

Nope. But if the majority of people going to a certain sushi restaurant were all getting sick it would suggest that the resauraunt is selling bad sushi.

Talking to you is just a total waste of time, isn't it.

Oh lawd.
Yes, Mankind is sinful. I'm sorry did I miss the part where we weren't? Maybe you'd like to give me an example of a human being that's lived and has never done anything wrong.

More than 30% of the population is Christian so I'm curious where your evidence is that 30% of people have something wrong with them or are psychologically damaged because of Christianity.