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Why I don't believe in Buddhism

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by LotusScent, Jul 26, 2021.

  1. LotusScent

    LotusScent New Member

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    The Theravada believe in impermanence and selflessness.so do the mahayana.in Theravada there are atoms and minds Wich come into being and cease.the problem is,they believe that this happens out of nothing with no creator because the subsequent atom or mind comes into being only after it's predecessor ceases totally.this is known as kshanabhanga.

    Then they also believe in dependant origination Wich states that a thing does not come into existance except dependant on other things ad infinitum.but you can't create anything new unless you have omnipotence ,or in my view unless the weak panentheistic energies essence distinction is true where we are created within the mind of God in a sense .

    Mipham Rinpoche criticized this view of arising not knowing that he demolishes his own religion.and infinity in number going back in time or a literal Infinite in quantity rather than quality is hard to grasp or make sense of.there has to be a first cause or mover.

    The Mahayana madhyamika state that that there is no unconditioned reality.this is known as shunyata.but father Robert spitzer has proven there must be a unconditioned reality that is immaterial and the continuous creator of all that exists . There is a fatal flaw in madhyamika however ,Nagarjuna said that things do not arise or cease,its like the hare's horn .but if that is the case then there is either permanence of everything or nothing.

    Yogacara and yogacara madhyamika synthesis like is practiced by all tibetans states that atoms do not exist but that there is basically solipsism.but they believe in kshanabhanga so it cannot be true as a mind cannot cease and a new mind follows it after it ceases out of nothing.with no creator .

    All Buddhist metaphysics basically have insurmountable flaws Wich seem to render them false.

    I haven't seen any adequate answers to these objections,so I am not a buddhist.
     
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  2. Secret Chief

    Secret Chief Meghalayan Ape

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    Call me a pedant but in that case should you be posting in this DIR?
     
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  3. rocala

    rocala Active Member

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    Hmmmm I assume English is not your first language, fair enough. If it is we have some real problems.
    OK, let's start with Robert Spitzer, if he has disproved anything, quite a claim to fame, how come he is so amazingly obscure?
    Once we have got back to the planet Earth we can talk about the rest.
     
  4. Martin

    Martin Spam, wonderful spam (bloody vikings!)

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    That was my thought.
     
  5. LotusScent

    LotusScent New Member

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    A unconditioned reality is proven by philosophy ,Wich is why he is obscure.but the thomistic tradition has proven this for centuries.
     
  6. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    ***Mod: thread moved from Buddhism Dir to Gen Rel. Debates.***

    Just a move. The main impact of this move will be that anyone can contribute to the conversation and debate regardless of their faith.
     
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  7. Φᅠᅠ

    Φᅠᅠ Active Member

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    I have read Spitzer' book (at least, parts of it) and I was impressed by how bad his arguments were. I'm talking more about his scientific arguments for the beginning of the universe. I already knew many apologetical claims were wrong in that book (other apologists had presented them before Spitzer and I had to study them), but he managed to find other papers I was not aware of. So, I had to send emails to some cosmologists and ask questions in physics forums. Turns out his claims all are wrong. :) That's why I don't take this apologist seriously.

    One example here.
     
    #7 Φᅠᅠ, Jul 26, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2021
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  8. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    Why I don't believe in Buddhism

    I believe in Buddha, and I believe in His Teachings, but I don't call myself a Buddhist, though I won't mind to become "Buddha":D
    True, soon it will be moved I think

    ETA: I see it already happened (the mods are fast)
     
  9. Martin

    Martin Spam, wonderful spam (bloody vikings!)

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    Fair enough. So what do you believe in?
     
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  10. crossfire

    crossfire Antinomian feminist heretic freak ☿
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    Kshanabhanga is not necessary within Buddhism, and some argue for it, others argue against it, and others don't bother with it at all..

    I used to read Nagarjuna's Mahayana Madhyamika while I was in the throes of PMS. Have you read it? ;) We even have a thread about it in the Buddhism DIR.

    Yogacara has some useful models and practices, but in the end it does violate Buddha's admonishment to steer clear of both Nihilism and Eternalism.
     
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  11. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    The basis for Buddhism are the Four Noble Truths* and the Eightfold Path**, and neither of them is considered fixed in stone. IOW, one can take an alternative position based on their own experiences and observations, which is also what the Buddha taught.


    *Four Noble Truths:
    dukkha (suffering, incapable of satisfying, painful) is an innate characteristic of existence in the realm of samsara;

    samudaya (origin, arising) of this dukkha, which arises or "comes together" with taṇhā ("craving, desire or attachment");

    nirodha (cessation, ending) of this dukkha can be attained by the renouncement or letting go of this taṇhā;

    magga (path, Noble Eightfold Path) is the path leading to renouncement of tanha and cessation of dukkha




    **Eightfold Path ["Right" means appropriate under the circumstances]


    1Right view

    2Right Intention

    3Right speech

    4Right action

    5Right livelihood

    6Right effort

    7Right mindfulness

    8Right Concentration
     
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  12. crossfire

    crossfire Antinomian feminist heretic freak ☿
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    From Buddha's Water Snake Simile:

    37. "So teaching, so proclaiming, O monks, I have been baselessly, vainly, falsely and wrongly accused by some ascetics and brahmans: 'A nihilist[38] is the ascetic Gotama; He teaches the annihilation, the destruction, the non-being of an existing individual.'[39]

    "As I am not as I do not teach, so have I been baselessly, vainly, falsely and wrongly accused by some ascetics and brahmans thus: 'A nihilist is the ascetic Gotama; He teaches the annihilation, the destruction, the non-being of an existing individual.'

    "What I teach now as before, O monks, is suffering and the cessation of suffering.​

    The verse immediately preceding this one shows Buddha's reasoning:

    36. "When a monk's mind is thus freed, O monks, neither the gods with Indra, nor the gods with Brahma, nor the gods with the Lord of Creatures (Pajaapati), when searching will find[36] on what the consciousness of one thus gone (tathaagata) is based. Why is that? One who has thus gone is no longer traceable here and now, so I say.[37]
     
  13. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    I don't know Buddhism well and had to look up what you mean.

    '1.2 An unconditioned reality is a reality whose existence does not depend on another reality for it to exist or happen. Its independence is absolute: if a reality depends upon another reality in any respect, it is conditioned.'

    Source: Step 1: The Necessity of an Unconditioned Reality

    Why couldn't the material realm be an unconditioned reality? The physical/material realm is not known to depend on another reality for it's existence.

    In my opinion.
     
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  14. Kelly of the Phoenix

    Kelly of the Phoenix Well-Known Member

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    I clicked on the link to the blog and I just don’t consider the first premise true.
     
  15. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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    With all that baggage, I wouldn't be a Buddhist either.
     
  16. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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    It's all interrelated regardless.
     
  17. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Maybe hypothetically it could, but our experiences in terms of cause & effect point in a different direction. On top of that, all things appear to be interconnected in at least some ways, thus nothing appears to be entirely "stand alone".

    Our own experiences and observations are "big" within Buddhism, but always with the caveat of taking it too far as our experiences and observations are limited.
     
  18. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Which is obviously why the basis of Buddhism is the FNT and the EP, and Old Sid taught that even some or even all of them can be questioned.

    The point is that actually what we call "Buddhism" is actually quite simple, namely observe and meditate on the repercussions.
     
  19. LotusScent

    LotusScent New Member

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    because matter changes and has a spatial restriction.also any unconditioned reality must be pure being itself.
    this goes into why it must be immaterial,immutable etc:
    The Key Divine Attributes of the Absolutely Unique and Simple Unconditioned Reality
     
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