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Featured Why I do not think the marriage of A’isha and Muhammad was not wrong

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Epic Beard Man, Jun 2, 2018.

  1. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    I can't help but find the controversy somewhat ironic, all things considered.

    It is not really possible to defend a tradition of allowing adult men to marry children under 14 or so. But even saying that makes many people unconfortable, because they are so attached to expectations of infallible, immutable guidelines from a supposedly divine source.

    That realization alone should teach us all a lot about the dangers of reliance on dogma and tradition.

    As for Aisha, I don't think there is a very clear picture of how her marriage to Muhammad affected her. From what I have learned she was a proud, courageous woman full of personal initiative. On the other hand, both Sunni and Shia traditions seem to agree that this initiative was right there at the core of some of their most painful conflicts, which last to this day and are likely to remain as long as Islaam itself endures.

    What that says about her virtues and flaws and those of the people surrounding and disputing with her is a very difficult matter, not likely to be solved any time soon, if ever. But I think it is legitimate to wonder if we she would not be better off without the pressure of being the youngest wife of the prophet hanging over her. Then again, it is just as legitimate to wonder if it is a good idea to have prophets themselves, or god-concepts.
     
    #41 LuisDantas, Jun 3, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2018
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  2. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    To me, arguing X was ok back in the day because everyone back then thought it was ok is highly problematic. "Oh really? Female genital mutilation was somehow healthier back then?"
     
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  3. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    Those Muslims are wrong, they need more education on the matter. Quran/Islam/Muhammad gave no commandment to marry young girls and are not responsible for their mistakes.
    Regards
     
  4. Hubert Farnsworth

    Hubert Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, and some of my ancestors were probably slaves, had slaves, or thought slavery was OK. Does that mean slavery is OK? Your logic is poor. You're arguing that because pedophilia was culturally accepted in Muhammed's time, it wasn't wrong. The same logic could be used to justify slavery of people based on race among many other atrocities.
     
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  5. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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    What was the marital age regarded as in the time of Muhammad?
     
  6. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    Do you have any evidence to back this up anthropologically?
     
  7. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    People in those times like Jews and other Semitic people married to ally tribes together. This was no different from than what Genghis Khan did.
     
  8. Hubert Farnsworth

    Hubert Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    And since when is Genghis Khan a good moral role model?
     
  9. Kelly of the Phoenix

    Kelly of the Phoenix Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, it's hypocritical. That being said, an adult shouldn't be marrying a child. I don't mind if two minors get together, but adults should shop in their own store, so to speak.
     
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  10. columbus

    columbus Conservative Catholic from Hell

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  11. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    This has nothing to do with slavery apples and oranges.
     
  12. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    I never said sex with little kids, I was referring to marriage. Again this is what I meant by projecting.. Here I''m referring to some tribal union via marriage and you're sharing an idea of sex with kids and this is not my attempt..
     
  13. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    I wanted to come back to some of the cultures where marriage especially at a young age was common:

    Being married at young age more common in Hmong culture

    Research regarding underage marriage

    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/13691058.2017.1390162

    Another from Wikipedia that explains child marriage globally....(Tried to find a more in-depth research approach)

    Child marriage - Wikipedia
     
  14. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    Not depending anything, just stating that in my opinion the idea of marrying this young at this time is not problematic for me considering the cultural dynamics behind it. Marrying this young is not just a Semitic tradition, this was also a tradition in Europe and elsewhere in different parts of the world. Just as arranged marriages are also a part of various cultures so is this. This is my attempt in finding an understanding.

    As I have explained before, life expectancy in certain harsh terrains was less than what it is now. Also, medical technology is advanced now which allows us to live longer but the fact remains is that men in these various cultures including the culture of Muhammad was common.
     
  15. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    I know you're not that dense never did I say a good role model I'm merely citing a popular military leader.
     
  16. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    Nobody is talking about FGM just as nobody is talking about MGM. This is about understanding. Having an understanding is not synonymous with agreement and I think this line of logic is also problematic.
     
  17. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Riboflavin
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    Child marriage is understandable in cultures where children and women were viewed as the man’s property. Is this the sort of society that you want?
     
  18. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    Then why aren't people speaking out about some of the states that allow one to marry at a young age?

    Age of marriage in the United States - Wikipedia

    I can marry someone in Arizona at 16
     
  19. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    How do I word this without sounding condescending.....?

    Understanding a thing is not synonymous with being in agreement with it. I'm taking the approach from a more a more socio-anthropological position. My position is thus that one cannot critique a thing of one culture and not the other. Mary the mother of Jesus was said to be 14 but she is often portrayed as a woman in art. Although I think there are some religious biases at play here my position is before we critique something as bad we need to understand why things occur. We can talk about "whatisms" all day, the point is explaining why. Often times people make brash comments about pedophilia (which is an incorrect term today) on Muhammad's marriage, without understanding the Semitic culture behind that in that time period.
     
  20. Debater Slayer

    Debater Slayer Born-again Glompist
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    In a parallel universe, more people would probably consider it an unfortunate moral defect for any culture to engage in apologetics toward the marriage of an adult in ancient times to a nine-year-old, but here we have a multiple-page thread dismissing different arguments against it and instead focusing on why it was nothing special "back then."

    I can't help but be reminded of this quote right now:

    [​IMG]
     
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