Why I detest the JW

[savagewind]

I understood that the poster was using hyperbole. She doesn't hate the people imo. I think she was angry and trying to make a point.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

If we go to the bible, torah forbids digesting blood but not blood transfusion. The problem is in this issue on observation that was made by holy martyrs and holy prophets. Blood transfusion will according to some schoolars cause personality change which easily is mistaken for disorders and illness.

Personality change happened to my Dad when he had a blood transfusion; that was back in the '50's, though.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

So what do you call refusing a child a blood transfusion that would save that childs life?

I've personally been involved in several cases wherein a doctor or doctors said a patient needed a blood transfusion to live.

One question we've always asked the doctor, "Will you guarantee that the patient will survive after you administer a transfusion?" Not once have they guaranteed.

And in every instance (where I was involved), after receiving alternative treatment, the patient lived! (Although they apparently 'needed' the transfusion to survive.)

 

[Hockeycowboy]

I don't know why this thread bothers me so much. To be perfectly honest, I am not a huge fan of the Jehovah's Witnesses. I have never had a negative encounter with them when they've come to my home with a Watchtower and a message. I have, on the other hand, had some extremely negative interactions with them on this forum. Without naming any names, I have found several of them to be extremely judgmental, condescending, intolerant, deceitful and flat out nasty. Maybe that's because forums like this bring out the worst in some people, and when a person who feels very strongly about something can express himself anonymously, there are bound to be those who take advantage of the fact that they have no way to actually see how they are coming across to others.

I just looked up the word "detest," and found the following synonyms: hate, loathe, despise, execrate, regard with disgust, shrink from, recoil from, and shudder at. I know a lot of people "detest" my religion, too, which means that they hate, loathe, despise, execrate, etc. it. That's hard for me to accept, but I know it's true. Seriously, there are 114 posts on this thread before this one. I haven't read them all, and I don't intend to. But I do suspect that a good portion of them are from self-professed Christians. To anyone who is a Christian and has admitted to "detesting" the Jehovah's Witnesses, I'd just like to ask you this: Can you even imagine the One you believe took upon himself your sins, that you might have everlasting life in God's presence saying, "I detest the Jehovah's Witnesses"?

I'm sorry you've had some bad experiences with my brothers and sisters on here! We try to apply Scriptures like Colossians 4:6 and similar ones in speaking with others.

I've always enjoyed conversing with you, Katzpur.

Wish you the best, my cousin!

 

[ChristineM]

I've personally been involved in several cases wherein a doctor or doctors said a patient needed a blood transfusion to live.

One question we've always asked the doctor, "Will you guarantee that the patient will survive after you administer a transfusion?" Not once have they guaranteed.

And in every instance (where I was involved), after receiving alternative treatment, the patient lived! (Although they apparently 'needed' the transfusion to survive.)

No doctor will ever give a a 100% reassurance that any treatment will be successful. Because they could be liable for expensive litigation if the patient a/ experiances unforseen complications, b/ there is a success/failure ratio with any major procedure, sometimes for unknown causes and even because of the patients will. Or for other reasons too numerous to catalogue here.

If you have been involved in several cases then you should know this.

Edit: You fail to say whether a blood transfusion would have alleviated the need for alternative (often far more expensive) treatment or whether a bt would have improved either/or the outcome or recovery.

 

[Jedster]

So what do you call refusing a child a blood transfusion that would save that childs life?

If the child should die, I would call it murder. Period.

 

[ChristineM]

If the child should die, I would call it murder. Period.

Me too, yet there are many religious who consider the loss of a childs life acceptable because some bronze age guy said it was ok. I really don't understand the mentality.

 

[Jedster]

Me too, yet there are many religious who consider the loss of a childs life acceptable because some bronze age guy said it was ok. I really don't understand the mentality.

@ChristineM
I don't know how they live with themselves. They must have deep dissonance.

 

[Katzpur]

I'm sorry you've had some bad experiences with my brothers and sisters on here! We try to apply Scriptures like Colossians 4:6 and similar ones in speaking with others.

I've always enjoyed conversing with you, Katzpur.

Wish you the best, my cousin!

Ah, cousin, how nice of you!

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I don't think I Detest any one, though some politicians come very close.
I certainly don't detest any one for holding a particular religious view... perhaps I am not trying hard enough?

I do suspect that some folk are seriously misguided as to what they believe.
I would put JW in that bracket. but they certainly have some pluses too.
I sometime debate with them. Knowing full well that they are never going to go off script.
But in these cases I know that others are reading the thread, and they need to see both sides of the reasoning.

However we do know that some JW's do see the light eventually, and there is no reason for them to feel totally lost if they do.
The Christian faith is wide, strong and welcoming enough to find a home for us all, however misled we might have been.

 

[Oeste]

So the May 1994 Awake! magazine cover was "fake news" ? You may want to explain that one to the Watchtower.

Apparently these kids were convinced by their parents who were convinced by the WT that God prefers sacrifice over mercy.

Did they die?

Of course they died. They would never make the cover if they lived.

Please may we see the editorial about these children?

You can write the Watchtower for that.

I wouldn't ask but your agenda is so distorted that I absolutely would need to know their names, and the outcome of their illnresses, and if they dies, what was the cause of death.

It doesn't matter what there names are unless you're just trying to be silly. Nor would it matter if you had their medical records in your hands.

It's not me who is "distorted" here but the message to the Watchtower faithful...allow your kid to die by refusing an organ or blood transfusion, and your kid might one day grace the glorious pages of the Awake! magazine.

Do you have any idea about how many children die each day because of taking drugs and medications left lying around in their homes?
Do you have any idea about how many children die each day due to Impure Water? Or Starvation? Or beatings?

WOW!

Talk about "distortions"!!!

I recall reading about serial killers. One of them couldn't understand why people got so upset about the people he murdered, especially since homeless people "deserved" it. After all, he postulated, homeless people die every day.

Your rationale speaks volumes Oldbadger.

You see? This stuff about JWs can be seen as hate fueled hypocrisy, really.

If you can diminish this under the guise "children die every day" then no, I cannot see this at all.

 

[Oeste]

So what do you call refusing a child a blood transfusion that would save that childs life?

If the child should die, I would call it murder. Period.

It's murder but we guarantee religious freedom, so it's not one we can do much about.

Me too, yet there are many religious who consider the loss of a childs life acceptable because some bronze age guy said it was ok. I really don't understand the mentality.

Except there is no biblical command against organ transplants, vaccinations or blood transfusions, and even if there was, God would never enforce it against us:

If you had known what these words mean, 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice,' you would not have condemned the innocent. (Matthew 12:7)

Condemnation comes quickly in the Watchtower organization. If a child takes a blood transfusion it can reflect badly on the parent as it can show the parent has not instilled a "proper love of Jehovah" into the child.

This was also stated by Jesus at Matthew 9:13:

12 On hearing this, Jesus said, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 13 But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' For I have come not to call the righteous, but sinners."

Unfortunately the Watchtower never learned what mercy over sacrifice actually means, as demonstrated by their former Awake! cover. They got "new light" on vaccinations, and I believe "new light" on organ transplants, but we're still waiting for them to get "new light" on blood transfusions.

 

[Oeste]

I don't think I Detest any one, though some politicians come very close.
I certainly don't detest any one for holding a particular religious view... perhaps I am not trying hard enough?

I would agree with this. I grew up with Jehovah Witnesses and for a while, my best friends were all JW's. I have close cousins who are also JW's and I have attended their Kingdom Halls, Assemblies, studied with them, etc.

However I do find some of their doctrines, like their blood and shunning policies, detestable.

 

[oldbadger]

Of course they died. They would never make the cover if they lived.

You can write the Watchtower for that.

It doesn't matter what there names are unless you're just trying to be silly. Nor would it matter if you had their medical records in your hands.

It's not me who is "distorted" here but the message to the Watchtower faithful...allow your kid to die by refusing an organ or blood transfusion, and your kid might one day grace the glorious pages of the Awake! magazine.

Talk about "distortions"!!!

I recall reading about serial killers. One of them couldn't understand why people got so upset about the people he murdered, especially since homeless people "deserved" it. After all, he postulated, homeless people die every day.

Your rationale speaks volumes Oldbadger.

If you can diminish this under the guise "children die every day" then no, I cannot see this at all.

Deeje already gave much background info about those three youths and their personal decisions.

Let's face it, you're some other kind of Christian, Catholic maybe (?), or Brethren? Let's have a look at your church's record for integrity.

The JWs' have a great reputation around here, and are one of only two churches that are actually growing, so shout away. JW integrity is well documented.

If you don't like them, don't offer them politeness when and if they call to you, but then you'd be showing your real colours, eh?

 

[ChristineM]

It's murder but we guarantee religious freedom, so it's not one we can do much about.



Except there is no biblical command against organ transplants, vaccinations or blood transfusions, and even if there was, God would never enforce it against us:

If you had known what these words mean, 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice,' you would not have condemned the innocent. (Matthew 12:7)

Condemnation comes quickly in the Watchtower organization. If a child takes a blood transfusion it can reflect badly on the parent as it can show the parent has not instilled a "proper love of Jehovah" into the child.

This was also stated by Jesus at Matthew 9:13:

12 On hearing this, Jesus said, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 13 But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' For I have come not to call the righteous, but sinners."

Unfortunately the Watchtower never learned what mercy over sacrifice actually means, as demonstrated by their former Awake! cover. They got "new light" on vaccinations, and I believe "new light" on organ transplants, but we're still waiting for them to get "new light" on blood transfusions.

The freedom of/from religion is an amendment to inalienable rights???. Surely the will of the people can amend it?

Anyway only 5% of he worlds population are bound by the US Constitution. They may be able to get away with murder there. There is little chance elsewhere.

Who knows the mind of a JW?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Anyway only 5% of he worlds population are bound by the US Constitution. They may be able to get away with murder there. There is little chance elsewhere.

Who knows the mind of a JW?

FYI, Jehovah’s Witnesses are global....there are more than 6x the Witnesses in other countries than in the US.

If you want to understand “the mind of a JW”, read about Jesus’ life in the Gospels; he’s our Exemplar. Though we’re imperfect of course, we do our best to imitate him.

If any conflict ever arises between any country and yours, be assured no JW would be out to kill you. John 17:16.
“They Are No Part of the World” — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

 

[ChristineM]

FYI, Jehovah’s Witnesses are global....there are more than 6x the Witnesses in other countries than in the US.

If you want to understand “the mind of a JW”, read about Jesus’ life in the Gospels; he’s our Exemplar. Though we’re imperfect of course, we do our best to imitate him.

If any conflict ever arises between any country and yours, be assured no JW would be out to kill you. John 17:16.
“They Are No Part of the World” — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

Exactly what i said, thanks for the confirmation. And in many of those countries, by refusing treatment that can save lives, JWs leave themselves open to prosecution.

I very much doubt you inmate him, i am pretty sure (if he existed and assuming the bible stories are built on some semblance of fact) that jc would have given his blessing to save the life of an Innocent child.

So many other Christians to choose who takes my life, thanks for the heads up